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Trying to do something a little different, been seeing a lot of "Screamer Star" lists. Working on a Tzeentch list that's focuses on the other units, looking for some advice on strategies/equipment for some of these other CSM & Demon units.
Spoiler:
Chaos Space Marines(Primary Detachment) Selections: HQ (345pts) Daemon Prince (215pts)
Aura of dark glory, Close Combat Weapon, Tzeentch , Wings
Sorcerer (130pts)
Additional Mastery Level , Aura of dark glory , Mark of Tzeentch , Power Armour, Spell familiar
Love the theme of the list, just 2-3 small issues.
Why does your prince have aura of dark glory? He is a daemon, so he already has a 5++. The aura doesn't improve it, so it's an absolute waste of points. Also, why oh why does he not have power armour? With only one winged DP on the board he is going to get nailed, he needs more protection. Lastly with a weapon like the black mace lying around, it seems a shame to not pop it on the prince...It really is his best friend!
Secondly, why daemonic possession on the vindi? Reduces your BS which means you will scatter more, and Doesn't really make it all that more survivable!
Lastly, those cultists will be chewed as a squad of 10 - Fast! I don't think they fit this list. You can drop them and still have 4 scoring units. Along with dropping the DP's Aura that gives you 70 points, which will buy you his power armour, and almost the mace!!
Otherwise I love the theme!!
And just a side note....The forum managers tend to not like you showing individual points costs.....it upsets them. A lot! Throw in a quick edit and remove the individual costs, you can leave the total cost!
You sought to cower behind your walls, weakling? Instead, by the will of Khorne, you shall die behind them
I thought Aura of dark glory stacks with other invul saves? I also play Fantasy so I usually get little details like that wrong. Well Power Armor it is then!
I like the demonic possession on the Vindi, not because it makes it more survivable, but because if it does take damage there's a higher chance that I can keep shooting it's blast. Nothing is more irritating than having your Vindi shaken/stunned for a turn. And I get what you're saying about the extra scatter, but I feel like if it's gonna scatter, it's gonna scatter. It's a big blast and if I pick targets well it'll hit something.
Yeah, I don't know about the cultists. They seemed thematic since Thousand Sons were known for having lots and lots of thralls. And I was thinking I could walk them on later in the game to cover a home objective. But I'm not sold on the idea. Thanks for pointing that out.
-If you want your Vindicator to shoot more often, just give it a TL Bolter for cheap. Possession won't help against shaken/stunned because people shooting at AV13 can reliably kill it in one turn anyways. If you take a penetrating hit and suffer a weapon-destroyed, Possession won't help you. A TL Bolter will. Most weapons that hit it will get +1 or +2 on the chart, so you won't see much use for Possession anyway.
-Don't take the Burning Chariot unless you are for sure that your opponent/tournament organizer and/or judge house rules that the Burning Chariot can move and shoot it's Torrent weapon since it is Heavy.
-Heralds on foot should have the badass Conjuration locus
-Don't take Dirge Casters. Always assume the Rhinos will get popped immediately.
-Obliterators don't need VotLW
-No need for AoDG on the Sorcerer.
-Princes from C:CSM need Black Mace.
-Never spend upgrade pts on Cultists units because they are nothing but bodies. I hate cultists. Has anyone online ever actually PLAYED with units of 10 cultists held in reserve or is it just what people online have suggested for months? Every game I have watched, Objectives are not just 12" away from your friendly board edge. Where's the strength in arriving from Reserve with 10 cultists if the objectives are a long way away? What a waste. Chaos is weak when it holds more units in Reserve. Get rid of that cultist idea and take more Thousand Sons or Horrors..
This list is not short on Troops, but it lacks durability. Beyond going to ground when they get shot at, the Horrors won't do much because most people will just roll good DtW tests. You don't want more than 2 psyker units with Demon Allies, unless you're running Screamerstar (which obviously you aren't). The allies taken should support the main list.. These do not do anything that cultists in cover can't already do (for cheaper). Two units of Horrors is good for fluff, but you can use the points elsewhere. Now, horrors taken as a small 10man unit just to take the other Demon units are worth it. Two units? Psh. You could get rid of Horrors for more Cultists... Up to you. I can't advise any more on it because I start to ramble.
The following list keeps the general idea of what you posted, removes some useless upgrades, and adds another Monstrous Creature that is just as good as the DP in combat while avoiding the Grimoire and Screamers. Note how the DP is not a psyker (if you want DP psykers, just take C:CD princes because they don't have to roll on the crap Tzeentch table before trying to get Iron Arm).
Why no aura on the sorcerer? I thought that would help his survivability? especially with a MoTz?
And after your ramble, why the 10 cultists still included? Surely you'd be better off dropping them for two greater gifts on the LoC to keep him alive longer?
You sought to cower behind your walls, weakling? Instead, by the will of Khorne, you shall die behind them
I just think you can make enough threat with those army lists to keep the sorcerer from taking damage since he's hidden in a Rubricae squad. When he starts making 4+ Invulnerable Saves, it's game over for him anyways. So why give it to him if he's not your warlord?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/12 18:02:03
No, they really don't.
The Black Mace is good for taking out a whole unit in one round, and then getting shot at in the next. Taking the other weapons, or none at all, result in a good chance of the assault finishing in your opponent's turn, allowing you to survive much longer.
And before you tell me that a 300+ pts daemon prince is only there to kill something of equal value asap, it's not going to be easy to do against just one unit.
A better loadout would be anything that keeps him from being shot art after every assault.
I just think you can make enough threat with those army lists to keep the sorcerer from taking damage since he's hidden in a Rubricae squad. When he starts making 4+ Invulnerable Saves, it's game over for him anyways. So why give it to him if he's not your warlord?
Fair point! I stand corrected.
But I would agree on the black mace weapon, epic in a daemon princes hand, That or the AoBF. I don't want to be held in a combat that I may or may not win next round. Your claim that taking nothing means you can finish the combat in his turn is a pathetic one. That is never guaranteed, and is a ridiculous tactic to rely on! anything that you wont kill or break straight away, you probably don't want hitting you back, as DP's aren't all that tough.
If you really don't want to win a combat, don't take a DP.
Black Mace all the way!
You sought to cower behind your walls, weakling? Instead, by the will of Khorne, you shall die behind them
Well I can open a whole can of worms by just saying that single demon princes are absolutely terrible choices because they are easy to get grounded by drop pod/rhino storm bolter snap shots and then slaughtered by 5 Sternguard.
Demon Princes are effective when they kill units.. More DPs killing lots of units is better than 1 DP staying in combat because he's afraid to get shot. You make sense, and the real question is why is there only one DP in this list? Ya'know?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/12 18:22:15
Brometheus wrote: Well I can open a whole can of worms by just saying that single demon princes are absolutely terrible choices because they are easy to get grounded by drop pod/rhino storm bolter snap shots and then slaughtered by 5 Sternguard.
Demon Princes are effective when they kill units.. More DPs killing lots of units is better than 1 DP staying in combat because he's afraid to get shot. You make sense, and the real question is why is there only one DP in this list? Ya'know?
Because they're so expensive Would be nice if GW included PA in the 145 points and decreased the cost of the wings (or even included it).
"Oh hello there Eldar and fellow brethren Space Marines, take a seat and let me play you the music of my people"- Band Slaanesh, the Rock and Roll of 40k
Guys, I'm not married to the cultists in any way shape or form. Just thought they were fluffy/cheap.
Before I added the Demons into the concept, I was running 3 squads of them, and you're right they die if you so much as look at them funny.
@Brometheus: You make a fair point about the TL Bolter and actually your list is fairly convenient for me to try out (since I don't actually own that chariot yet.) Over the years I've amassed the bits for about 40 Rubrik marines and I'm about to get a bunch of those fancy robed legs from Anvil Industries in the mail, so any number of Thousand Sons are possible.
In terms of the Black Mace/Not Black Mace, I feel like it's one of those "auto-include" combos that I try to stay away from when I can think of something more clever. I feel like the burning brand could be a fun/unexpected wargear choice for an FDP since it rains down AP3 death while keeping him flying. If only it was torrent...
It is torrent though? Or am I being oblivious to your humor lol
"Oh hello there Eldar and fellow brethren Space Marines, take a seat and let me play you the music of my people"- Band Slaanesh, the Rock and Roll of 40k
Ahhh so you did know lol, It's hard to read humor sometimes...
"Oh hello there Eldar and fellow brethren Space Marines, take a seat and let me play you the music of my people"- Band Slaanesh, the Rock and Roll of 40k
You sought to cower behind your walls, weakling? Instead, by the will of Khorne, you shall die behind them 
Would be nice if 
