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Main
290 1x Bloodthirster / 2x Greater Rewards (Warlord)
135 13x Bloodletters / Bloodreaper
125 12x Bloodletters / Bloodreaper
180 1x Soulgrinder / Nurgle / Phlegm Bombardment
180 1x Soulgrinder / Nurgle / Phlegm Bombardment
Allies
265 1x Deamon Prince / Nurgle / Power Armor / Wings / Black Mace
240 10x Chaos Space Marines / Khorne / Icon of Wrath / Pistol And CCW / 2x Meltagun / Melta Bomb - Rhino
170 1x Heldrake
125 1x Maulerfiend

1750 pts

So this is a pretty neat 1750 Nurgle and Khorne Deamon + CSM Allie list I think.

Seems pretty fun and relatively solid for a list which has a Maulerfiend (I just love the Deamonforge monstrosities), I know they have a bad rep but I think that they are better than they are given credit for.

Bloodthirster is a fun and very tough warlord

The CSM Deamonprinces are so much better than the ones from the Deamon Codex since they can get the Black mace which makes them so much nastier in close combat. (potential of 12 Attacks at Ini8, Ws9 with Fleshbane and Ap 2 plus some death spasm explosions, why yes thank you very much)
He can meet a dedicated close combat team and will normaly completely own it while the deamon prince from the deamon codex would require luck to survive against a strong close combat team.

Im not scared of flyers with the 2 Soulgrinders harvester gun, the 2 flying monstrous creatures and a Heldrake.

this list is very fast too, the bloodletters are gonna deepstrike in to avoid them getting shot down as they get close, the 2x FMC will swoop over to right beside the enemy, following right behind them the CSM in Rhino will move flat out to the enemy line too (making them of khorne to max their damage output), the Maulerfiend staying close behind (I figure he wont be high on the opponents priority list given the other threats and its reputation) and during this time the Soulgrinders are dropping Str8 ap 3 large pie plates on the enemy line as they walk forward.
The heldrake is OP so I have to have one, he's there to distract and flame dudes.


I think this list is especially good against space marines and other high armor armies as most everything has AP3 or AP2, really the only thing that doesnt have ap 3 is the Khorne CSM but they on the other hand will force so many armors save throw that they will still do good.

which list do you think this army might have a hard time with?

just getting a bump up.
I've been reading about the deamon price from the deamon codex, and im suprised to notice that people are saying that its as good as the one from the CSM codex.
I figure I must be missing something since I just dont see them as being particularly good.
The rewards just arent THAT worthwhile (especially since the greater deamons can still get them and their stats are so much better). the black mace seems so much better as an option.
sure the marks are a little bit better in the deamon codex and they can come in the HS slot but then your losing a place for a Soulgrinder which is so important in my point of view.
what am I missing?

Mmmm, here's what I see against most shooty armies:

Turn 1, your FMCs get shot up to high heaven. Your Rhino and Soul Grinders get ignored.

Turn 2: Your bloodletters probably come in and hopefully the Heldrake. You really have to take out as many troops as you can with the Heldrake or else one round of Dark Eldar/Tau from 2 troops choices will probably annihilate your bloodletters easily. The opponent then directs their heavy support at your rhino and maulerfiend to pop em. Probably pops the Rhino at the least.

Turn 3: After your surviving FMCs finishes off one thing in their army, they focus fire to finish them off. You'd probably be left with your Soul Grinders, Heldrake, and a few foot slogging CSM.

I would say Bloodletters are not an ideal troops choice. You really want something that'll do some damage, and I'd say the best option is Daemonettes. The Maulerfiend is ok and might do some damage, but against an opponent that's camping on the backlines, they can and will ignore it until it's close OR they will just toss a few heavy shots at it. It's not a hard cherry to pop, and they reason why the Maulerfiend tends to be inferior is because the closer it gets, the more opportunities there are to destroy it. I'd get some Obilterators with MoN and VotLW for 25ish more points.

The problem with FMCs is that you have to take many for them to be effective. Thats the biggest reason why the Daemon Codex ones are better: you can take 4 or 5 as opposed to the CSMs 2, where only one of them get the black mace, and the other gets the Axe of Blind Fury if hes khorne.

I would Suggeset:

2X10 flesh hounds
3X10 bloodletters
2 bloodthirsters with 1X exalted gifts, 1X greater gifts
3 Daemon Princes of Khorne with armor, flight, 2X greater gifts

If you dont mind breaking the khorne theme, plaguebearers are better troops and Daemon Princes of Tzeentch with some magic are better heavy supports

Khorne CSM in a rhino is pointless, and won't dish out loads of attacks as they'll get killed before they make combat. Rhinos aren't assault vehicles. So you'll get out. Stand for a turn and be shot at, and then get to charge. They'll get killed. Probably quite easily.

I love maulerfiends too. BUT unfortunately you need a pair. With CSM you need to think 'Noah's ark' everything needs to go marching in 2 by 2! At least.

And daemons are better daemons, funnily! Although I adore both the black mace and axe of fury, the daemons book offers a lot of survivability which CSM DP's lack. And a bloodthirster with a greater gift is about the same points as a prince with a mace, and although he'll get slightly less attacks, he is otherwise better in every single way! And can't be instant killed!

Just some thoughts for you.

I do love the Bloodthirster (Although they can be Insta killed, just not from Str10 Attack aaaaand wont kill as many dudes per turn as a CSM DP can with the black mace) and I would indeed want to sport Two Bloodthirster at a time but perhaps another list.
Thing is I do need a HQ for the Allies and the CSM Deamon Prince does do what it does very well, especially in a list like this which is all about moving to the enemy as a block for target saturation.
Everything should be on you in 2nd or 3rd turn max due to how fast everyone is(Soulgrinders are backline but they are semi invicible from shooting, especially if they have a ruin to hide behind, and still put beautifully strong pressure through Phlegm Bombardment).

Ive mostly been playing Tyranids but Ive found that FMC are very tough to take out. FMC have the hugest movement in all types. I use this to my advantage by measuring how far my opponent can shoot (with guns that matter at least) and stay out of reach of most if not all of them on turn one (keeping into consideration his movement and terrain). I should be able to get them close enough for them to be able to charge something on turn 2 without taking too much shooting, this is still just a 1750 pts army.

this is Khorne and Nurgle so I woudnt mind Plaguebearers but are they really better?
Bloodlettters rip through MEQ's on a charge if they still have some numbers. Plaguebearers would tie up people more though and that is a decent role for troops. especially the not dying part which is definetely true but I really want to aim this army to be as offensive as possible.

I would like to have a pair of Maulerfiend but I cant in an ally detachment(and I want my pair of Soulgrinders more).

CSM are in a rhino to protect them from blasts in the begining and avoid the opponent from having anything to aim his anti infantry weapons at, once the CSM are out in the open they aren't suppose to get shot at since the opponent will normally choose to shoot before at the bloodltetters which will deepstrike right beside them, (plague bearers are less attractive as a target though so really I think Bloodletters are the way to go).
This is still 25 wounds with fearless and invul to deal with after having been charged by one or two FMC and receiving 4 Str8 Ap3 Large Blast to the face at this point and probably even a Baleflaming from a Heldrake.
if the opponent manages to pop the rhino on first turn then I suppose they could just go hunt small objective holders in the outskirts while trying to restrain wher the ennemy can move towards.

BTW mr Changerofways I think the list you are proposing is 280pts too expensive. maybe by only having 2 deamon princes or no Fleshhounds but then what i dont like about this list is its lack of shooting, sure it moves fast and is a nice flying circus of Khorne. But its a completely different army at this point.

I should think that Soulgrinders can support FMC very well, I would even say better than DP for the point cost difference since DP are almost 100 pts more each.

I like the idea of soul grinders! Although I think what you are relying on tactically will mean you'll have a lot of losses. Bloodletters are terrible! Especially when deep striking next to enemy lines. 25 T3 models with just a 5++ is easily smashed by most armies! meaning those Khorne CSM that just got out the rhino will be killed before they do anything. And that's relying on the letters turning up straight away. Combat CSM troops in a rhino won't work. Trust me. If you want them in a transport, it has to be a land raider!!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If you want to keep them in the rhino, which I really wouldn't because it's such an easy first blood, give them a mark of nurgle, icon of vengeance and plasmas! Then they can become a mobile plasma gun, that's tougher to shift off of objectives.

I do love the theme though...

How is putting the Khorne CSM in a Rhino gonna make them an easier first blood for the enemy to get?
Putting space marines in a Rhino normally makes them harder to kill. Thats the whole point of a transport (ok speed too)

I dont know how you guys like to play but Ive always played with a lot of terrain on the board (line of sight blocking ones are abundant too) so with proper positionning you can avoid alot of your opponents shooting.

 fartherthanfar wrote:
How is putting the Khorne CSM in a Rhino gonna make them an easier first blood for the enemy to get?
Putting space marines in a Rhino normally makes them harder to kill. Thats the whole point of a transport (ok speed too)

I dont know how you guys like to play but Ive always played with a lot of terrain on the board (line of sight blocking ones are abundant too) so with proper positionning you can avoid alot of your opponents shooting.

Simple. A rhino is a dedicated transport, but is a separate unit on the table top. Destroy the rhino and you have first blood. The contents are irrelevant. And a rhino isn't particularly hard to blow up. It doesn't matter what's inside.

However, when what's inside is a combat unit, the the rhino is probably going to want to drive forward, making it even easier to blow up. The marines might be harder to kill, the rhino isn't.

And as for how we like to play, well personally - by using the rule book. So scenery is randomised. D3 per board square.

Really!!!?? The rhino counts as a seperate unit?!?!
I never knew that. Thats annoying.

When it comes to terrain I guess the size of tye terrain piece is gonna make a nice difference too.

 fartherthanfar wrote:
Really!!!?? The rhino counts as a seperate unit?!?!
I never knew that. Thats annoying.

When it comes to terrain I guess the size of tye terrain piece is gonna make a nice difference too.

It is annoying. Very very annoying, and often makes me question rhinos worth, even at such cheap cost. It definitely helps fuel my loathe for them. That and their armour made of wet paper. And the fact you cannot assault the turn you disembark!

It's one of the things that really winds me up in the CSM dex! Why can't units like bezerkers take a land raider as a dedicated transport? What use is a rhino to them? Nothing at all! Especially when tau fire warriors can glance it to death! I wanted 2 maulerfiends, much like you wanting 2 grinders, so I HAD to take either black legion allies, OR a dual FOC just to take 2 land raiders as well for my 2 squads of bezerkers!