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I would like to start playing some mid-war German Grenadiers, especially those from the Eastern Front book. Building the army, however, is a bit of a challenge. I'm trying to keep the list to 1,500 points which isn't really enough to go around in order to compete against hordes of Soviet infantry and armor. I think what I have thus far is a decent list that includes a little bit of everything I may need to find success but comments and critiques are welcome. The force can run with between 7 and 9 PLTs which gives it a pretty high break point, but 8 PLTs seems easier for determining which PLTs are held in reserve.

HQ: 105
CO HQ, 2x Panzerknacker SMG teams
Attached mortar section, 2x 8cm mortars

COMBAT PLTs: 415
Grenadier PLT, Panzerknacker SMG team w/6x Rifle/MG teams, attached HMG PLT w/2x MG42
Grenadier PLT, SMG team w/4x Rifle/MG teams

WEAPONS PLTs: 135
HMG PLT w/2x MG42

REGIMENTAL PLTs: 80
AT Gun PLT w/2x 5cm PaK38, SMG team

DIVISIONAL PLTs: 765
Panzer PLT, 1x PkW IV G, 2x PkW IV E
Tank Hunter PLT, 3x Marder I
Rocket Battery, 3x 15cm NW41, SMG team,
AA Gun PLT, 3x 2cm Flak38, 3-ton trucks

The 1IC with attached mortars, larger Grenadier PLT with attached HMG section, second HMG section, AT Guns and Rocket Battery will have to start on the table initially. Hopefully that will be a sufficient schwerpunkt to hold out until reinforcements arrive. The 2ic, smaller Grenadier PLT, Panzers, Marders and AA Guns will have to make a very determined and timely counter attack once arriving from reserve in order to save the day. All the same, I'm not sure if that's going to be enough to beat back the Red Army. Any help is appreciated.

I would drop the AA and flesh out the understrength platoons with the excess points. Kampfgruppe whenever you need that extra platoon.

Always take German infantry platoons at full strength, understrength platoons are far to easy to break/wipe out.

I'm also not a fan of the Panzer platoon, aside from being completely ahistorical, it also doesn't have any focus.

1500 points is a bit of an odd one these days but you may want to consider a list along the lines of:

HQ, with 2 panzerknacker and mortar section

3 squad Grenadier platoon with panzerknacker

3 squad Grenadier platoon with panzerknacker

3 squad white pioneer platoon with panzerknacker and supply wagon

Full mortar platoon with sGW43

3 Marder II

4 Pz III J(late)

1490 points.

This gives you a solid and survivable infantry base (with pioneer abilities), good artillery support, excellent (but fragile) tank hunters and a soild workhorse tank platoon.

When/if you expand to 1750 you can then add in some MGs and light AT guns (I personally like PaK36s with Stielgranate as they are cheap but excellent in defensive fire)

Did pretty well with my SS-Gep Panzergrens form Eastern Front in a 1500 point tourney at Millennium Con in Austin last weekend.

HQ:
Gepanzerte Panzergrenadier Company HQ - CinC SMG, 2iC SMG, 2x Sd Kfz 251/1C half-track (85 pts)
2x Replace Command SMG with Command Panzerknacker SMG (10 pts)

Combat Platoons:
Gepanzerte Panzergrenadier Platoon - Command MG, 6x MG, 4x Sd Kfz 251/1C half-track (275 pts)
Replace Command MG with Command Panzerknacker SMG (5 pts)

Gepanzerte Panzergrenadier Platoon - Command MG, 6x MG, 4x Sd Kfz 251/1C half-track (275 pts)
Replace Command MG with Command Panzerknacker SMG (5 pts)

Divisional Support:
Mittlere Panzer Platoon - Command Panzer III G/H/J (early), 2x Panzer III G/H/J (early) (300 pts)
Upgrade to Panzer IV G (late) or H (85 pts)
Upgrade to Panzer IV F2 or G (65 pts)
Upgrade to Panzer IV F2 or G (65 pts)
Equip Panzer IV G (late) or H with Schurzen (5 pts)

Heavy Panzerspah Platoon - Command Sd Kfz 231 (8-rad), Sd Kfz 231 (8-rad) (95 pts)

Armored Rocket Launcher Battery - Command SMG, Kfz 15 field car, Observer Rifle, Kubelwagen, 3x S307(f) R-Vielfachwerfer (80 pts)
3x Equip Panzerwerfer 42 (Maultier) with Extra Crew (15 pts)

Light Anti-aircraft Platoon - Command Sd Kfz 7/1 (Quad 2cm), Sd Kfz 7/1 (Quad 2cm) (115 pts)
2x Equip Sd Kfz 7/1 (Quad 2cm) with armor (20 pts)


1500 Points, 6 Platoons

Played against two Russian Strelk Battalions and had one draw and one Victory (Encounter, Cauldron) against them.
Since I was expecting some heavy infantry-list turnout at this one, I built my army accordingly. The Panzers are my hammer-unit while I used my 80mm Rocket Launcher-artillery to keep things pinned. Amazingly, throughout the the tourney, my artillery did quite well, destroying more than I thought it would. It covers the bases though; recon, artillery, infantry, mobility and AT assets.

It's a different wrinkle I suppose but it worked for me.....

I was under the impression that AA Guns were a border-line necessity on the Eastern Front. Not so much for their AA ability, but to add some more anti-infantry capability. You really think it's pointless?

With the Panzers I was just looking for a way to sneak another 7.5cm gun into the list. I could see going with the Pz III Js for a little extra armor without much firepower reduction.

Is just 6 PLTs going to be enough? Half the force is going to have to hold its own before the reserves arrive, and I wanted my reserves to be mobile hence the tanks and towed AA. How do you stop the initial wave without HMGs or AT guns starting on the board?

I have toyed with a GPG list as well that looks fairly similar to Ultra's. I just have two smaller Pz III J Late PLTs and NW41s instead.

 Big S'arnt wrote:
I was under the impression that AA Guns were a border-line necessity on the Eastern Front. Not so much for their AA ability, but to add some more anti-infantry capability. You really think it's pointless?

With the Panzers I was just looking for a way to sneak another 7.5cm gun into the list. I could see going with the Pz III Js for a little extra armor without much firepower reduction.

Is just 6 PLTs going to be enough? Half the force is going to have to hold its own before the reserves arrive, and I wanted my reserves to be mobile hence the tanks and towed AA. How do you stop the initial wave without HMGs or AT guns starting on the board?

I have toyed with a GPG list as well that looks fairly similar to Ultra's. I just have two smaller Pz III J Late PLTs and NW41s instead.

I rarely bother with AAA, aircraft aren't that effective against mobile /infantry armies and static AA guns aren't very good against infantry either. The list I suggested has 2 bombardments and a lot of direct firepower so that will suffice against most infantry lists.

The Pz IIIJs are excellent, better than Pz IVs is most circumstances due to their RoF 3 gun and comparative cheapness, that platoon kicks out 12 AT 9 shots a turn which will make a very large dent in anything that isn't a heavy tank. They form the core of my MW Panzer Kompanie and I have a lot of respect for them.

3 platoons are fine (I would use the white pioneers, 1 grenadier platoon and the heavy mortars) as that way you can cover both objectives and still have some long ranged firepower. Most of the time there isn't a huge amount to shoot at in the first few turns anyway besides barrages. In general infantry armies shouldn't be doing much firing in the shooting phase aside from heavy AT guns at high value targets and artillery, the assault phase is where infantry tend to do most of their damage.

If you havn't played much before I would definatlely start with a Grenadier list over Panzergrenadiers. GPGs are a much more offensive army but at the same time they are more fragile. At the end of the day all you really need to do to upgrade your list is buy some Hanomags

By the sounds of things it seems that people believe AAA can be thrown out, White Pioneers are useful, and mortars are integral support weapons. But why no AT Guns in a list like this? After looking at potential Soviet tank companies I may face, there's a very real possibility that my Grenadiers could be attacked by a dozen or more enemy tanks. Is the answer to just Go To Ground and hope to get my licks in when I'm assaulted?

I worked my list around some and cut it down to just 6 PLTs with a little more "dakka" in them.

Grenadier HQ - 2x Panzerknacker SMG teams, 2x 8cm mortars attached.

2x Grenadier PLTs - Panzerknacker SMG team, 6x rifle/MG teams each

White Pioneer PLT - Panzerknacker SMG team, 6x rifle/MG teams, 3 ton trucks

Panzer PLT - 4x PZ III L/M, one with Schurzen sideskirts

Panzerjager PLT - 3x Marder II

AT Gun PLT - 3x 5cm PaK38, Kfz 70 trucks, SMG team

The HQ section, Grenadier PLTs and AT Guns still start on the table to hold objectives. The mortars can bombard or smoke as necessary, with the AT Guns either on the line or in ambush. My Panzers and Pioneers can bear the brunt of the necessary counter attack, while the Marders try to line up some side shots. Hopefully that will be enough to get the job done.

Alternately I thought about trading a Panzer in order to field two 8.8cm Flak36s for some powerful ranged AT capability. I would probably spring for the extra crew upgrade so at least there's something on the table that can keep Soviet heavy tank honest.

AAA works for some lists, lists with a lot of artillery benefit from it for example, and some people prefer to take some but I have never felt the need.

AT guns are very useful and T34 hordes are an issue but its quite hard to fit everything in in 1500. One option that you could take is 2 Luftwaffe 88s with extra crew (I would prefer PaK40s but they are just a little too expensive, although you could drop the supply truck if you wanted), 3 PaK 36 with steilgranate (only ever to be used in defensive fire) and remove the Marder platoon and the panzerknacker from your 2IC. This will give you some heavy AT that will dominate a section of the board (but is which very easy to kill) and a small AT platoon that can do surprising damage to medium and heavy tanks in defensive fire. On the other hand it also means that you won't have any mobile heavy AT.

If you get the chance ambush T34s with your PzIIIs, 12 AT 9 shots will do a lot of damage.

By the sounds of things it seems that people believe AAA can be thrown out, White Pioneers are useful, and mortars are integral support weapons. But why no AT Guns in a list like this? After looking at potential Soviet tank companies I may face, there's a very real possibility that my Grenadiers could be attacked by a dozen or more enemy tanks. Is the answer to just Go To Ground and hope to get my licks in when I'm assaulted?

It depends on what you would usually face in that points-range; reason I took mine is because the year prior, aircraft was prevalent in the high number of infantry lists there at the time. My AA was really a precaution to protect my Panzers.

At 1500 though, AA is not a necessity , but again, depends on what you encounter (local meta and all that).

ATG's are a good option as well, especially PaK38's or 40's and can be used in ambush quite easily. With Soviet Tank hordes in Eastern Front, at that point level, I'd highly doubt you'd be facing a Guards unit, so the majority of the time it would be F/C....which means they'll need the high numbers to assault and they'll still need their numbers, which again, with the points limitation, they shouldn't have the horde of hulls that you'd expect. I'd be expecting infantry battalions or the Rota Razvedki or possibly a Mixed Tankovy instead. Although I could picture a wily Tankovy list with Matilda II's (ow...) as a infantry delivery system (tank riders) but that's a little over-thinking it.

The 88's would be a good choice anchor-flank unit if in concealing terrain; you could command a good chunk of the board with those and keep armor at bay easily.