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I'm with Kronk. My "Give a damn button" is missing. Though I do miss the Flaming Mug in Fayetteville. I also proudly proclaimed I have been to "Rick's Bar" downtown Fayetteville best stripper bar before they shut it down. Total blast at their "Fake an Orgasm" competition Night on Thursday there

 Kanluwen wrote:
.

And really if you're trying to say that a library card is the same as a college issued photographic ID, you're being willfully ignorant.

Your student ID has your address on it and all that jazz? Man, they've really improved them since I was in school.

In some of the more rural counties in NC, you have some primarily African American churches that will organize transportation for the more elderly members of the congregation to ensure that they would get to vote on Sundays before going to church.

Are these folks unable to submit an absentee ballot?

 cincydooley wrote:

Because any responsible adult SHOULD have an id?

Then why not mandate that all people over 18 must possess some form of valid identification? I mean, if we're going to legislate morality, then we may as well for the gold.

 dogma wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:

Because any responsible adult SHOULD have an id?

Then why not mandate that all people over 18 must possess some form of valid identification? I mean, if we're going to legislate morality, then we may as well for the gold.

It has nothing to do with morality. You need an id for how many things in the United States? Further, if you get arrested or injured, etc, it only makes it harder for those trying to arrest/assist you.

I mean, please tell me one good reason an adult shouldn't have an ID; I'm more than willing to listen here.

 cincydooley wrote:
Similarly, I'd also accept student IDs as reasonable photo I'd for voting. I'd probably also accept one of those fancy schmancy credit cards with the owner photo on it, too.

I really don't understand what the difficulty with understanding "photo ID" and then obtaining one is. I wish all liquor stores carded people for booze regardless of age. That would encourage some of these lazy gaks to get an id real quick.

If you would accept student IDs, and expired IDs, then you probably aren't interested in preventing voter fraud.

 cincydooley wrote:

It has nothing to do with morality. You need an id for how many things in the United States? Further, if you get arrested or injured, etc, it only makes it harder for those trying to arrest/assist you.

I mean, please tell me one good reason an adult shouldn't have an ID; I'm more than willing to listen here.

Using the words "responsible" and "should" relates the issue of possessing ID to morality. Indeed, your most recent comment implies that people should make it easy for themselves to be arrested or assisted, which is a moral claim.

At any rate, I am not going to give you a good reason that adults should not possess ID, because that would involve allowing you to move the goalposts. All that is being claimed is that there exist significant impediments in obtaining valid identification.

 dogma wrote:
[

If you would accept student IDs, and expired IDs, then you probably aren't interested in preventing voter fraud.

Wrong. They're still photo IDs, are they not? Name matches name. Picture matches person voting. Boom. Easy.

. All that is being claimed is that there exist significant impediments in obtaining valid identification.

Significant impediments. That's hilarious.

 cincydooley wrote:

Wrong. They're still photo IDs, are they not? Name matches name. Picture matches person voting. Boom. Easy.

Student IDs are very easy to illicitly produce. For example, all of mine have a picture of me, my student ID number, and a magnetic strip on the back. The only way the state could verify these IDs is by comparing either the ID number, or the data present on the magnetic strip, to a register that they would need to assemble. This would be very expensive, and needless given that voter fraud is not a problem in the US.

Regarding expired IDs: the whole point of setting an expiry date is that the identification becomes invalid; as in "not identifying."

Again, you don't seem all that interested in preventing voter fraud.

 cincydooley wrote:

Significant impediments. That's hilarious.

Ok, Juror #3.

Then why not mandate that all people over 18 must possess some form of valid identification? I mean, if we're going to legislate morality, then we may as well for the gold.

Well all males at the age of 18 are required by law to fill out a certain form either online or pencil jam at a federal location. Which I wonder how many in the US over the age 18 have registered eh

 Jihadin wrote:

Then why not mandate that all people over 18 must possess some form of valid identification? I mean, if we're going to legislate morality, then we may as well for the gold.

Well all males at the age of 18 are required by law to fill out a certain form either online or pencil jam at a federal location. Which I wonder how many in the US over the age 18 have registered eh

You mean the selective service card?
Yup. Have it.

Then you shouldn't have an issue with getting a proper form of ID then eh Mind you females do not need to registered for Selective Service. Yet no one screams discrimination eh

 Jihadin wrote:
Then you shouldn't have an issue with getting a proper form of ID then eh Mind you females do not need to registered for Selective Service. Yet no one screams discrimination eh

Bear in mind that, as I've explained before, registering to vote and Selective Service was actually done through my high school. At the start of each semester they asked if anyone had recently turned 18 and if they had, they were then asked if they filled out voting registration or Selective Service forms.

If you had not then you got a "get out of class free" card for home room as you were then sent to meet with your guidance counselor to fill out the forms. The school then sent the forms in and you received the Selective Service and voter registration cards in the mail at your home.

SLC2013-381 removed those programs so now students have to register on their own time and cannot register through the schools.

 Jihadin wrote:

Well all males at the age of 18 are required by law to fill out a certain form either online or pencil jam at a federal location. Which I wonder how many in the US over the age 18 have registered eh

According to GAO, 92% in 2010.

 dogma wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:

Wrong. They're still photo IDs, are they not? Name matches name. Picture matches person voting. Boom. Easy.

Student IDs are very easy to illicitly produce. For example, all of mine have a picture of me, my student ID number, and a magnetic strip on the back. The only way the state could verify these IDs is by comparing either the ID number, or the data present on the magnetic strip, to a register that they would need to assemble. This would be very expensive, and needless given that voter fraud is not a problem in the US.

Regarding expired IDs: the whole point of setting an expiry date is that the identification becomes invalid; as in "not identifying."

Again, you don't seem all that interested in preventing voter fraud.

 cincydooley wrote:

Significant impediments. That's hilarious.

Ok, Juror #3.

And if you're going to go to those means to defraud the voting system, you'd do it with a state ID as well.

 cincydooley wrote:
Listen. I think election day should be a federal holiday, especially if garbage like Columbus Day and Martin Luther king day are.

I can't get behind not having an id. At all. Every adult showed have one, for multiple reasons.

Its way beyond should at this point. You NEED an ID to do basically anything. The idea that any functioning adult could get by in life without one is laughable. You need one to get a job, buy alcohol, drive a car, to get insurance for that car, use a credit card, etc...

 cincydooley wrote:

And if you're going to go to those means to defraud the voting system, you'd do it with a state ID as well.

That doesn't make any sense. I mean, why would you tie a state ID to a fake ID?

 Grey Templar wrote:
The idea that any functioning adult could get by in life without one is laughable.

It is possible to get a job, buy alcohol, and drive a car without ID.

Key word. "Possible".

 dogma wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:

And if you're going to go to those means to defraud the voting system, you'd do it with a state ID as well.

That doesn't make any sense. I mean, why would you tie a state ID to a fake ID?

Wait, so what was your point of mentioning "illicit IDs" if not to create fake ones?

 dogma wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:

And if you're going to go to those means to defraud the voting system, you'd do it with a state ID as well.

That doesn't make any sense. I mean, why would you tie a state ID to a fake ID?

 Grey Templar wrote:
The idea that any functioning adult could get by in life without one is laughable.

It is possible to get a job, buy alcohol, and drive a car without ID.

Maybe get a job, but how on earth are you able to legally buy alcohol or drive a car without some form of ID?

You have to have a license to drive a car(and a divers license is an ID) and you do need to be carded when you buy alcohol.

 cincydooley wrote:

Wait, so what was your point of mentioning "illicit IDs" if not to create fake ones?

Well, I never used the phrase "illicit IDs" so...

 cincydooley wrote:

Wait, so what was your point of mentioning "illicit IDs" if not to create fake ones?

Again, not a phrase I used.

 Grey Templar wrote:

Maybe get a job, but how on earth are you able to legally buy alcohol or drive a car without some form of ID?

I never said that behavior would be legal.

Jesus Christ. I forgot you're the damned king of semantics. Done with you.

 dogma wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

Maybe get a job, but how on earth are you able to legally buy alcohol or drive a car without some form of ID?

I never said that behavior would be legal.

Are you fething serious

 Grey Templar wrote:

Are you fething serious

Yes.

 cincydooley wrote:
Jesus Christ. I forgot you're the damned king of semantics. Done with you.

I'm sorry, I do not like it when people attribute statements to me.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Which one? The one from the Voter Integrity Project North Carolina--which receives a hefty donation from Art Pope?

I'm almost starting to think that either ;
a) you're being deliberately obtuse
b) you're just a reactionary poster and doesn't actually read what someone else posts

 Kanluwen wrote:
Actually the fact that it is a State funded college and using state provided equipment, same as that being used for the photographic IDs which Republicans are claiming cannot be duplicated which would make it a state ID.

And really if you're trying to say that a library card is the same as a college issued photographic ID, you're being willfully ignorant.

Both are recipients of state (and federal) money, both provide IDs for member use, neither ID is actually a State ID. So it is actually a very apt comparison. The fact that your college borrows the equipment does not mean that any ID they create is therefore a State ID. Does your college have the express legal right to create and issue State ID card?

 Kanluwen wrote:
If you cannot see why that is an issue, then I think we're done here

If you equate everyone having the same voting rights and equal access to the polls as disenfranchisement then maybe you need a stronger argument. It is a strange day when having equal access to something is seen as targeting minorities

 Kanluwen wrote:
In some of the more rural counties in NC, you have some primarily African American churches that will organize transportation for the more elderly members of the congregation to ensure that they would get to vote on Sundays before going to church.

So those voters cannot vote the other 6 days of the week (or use mail in votes) like everyone else is entitled to?



But it is nice to see that after complaining about others comparing the Texas voter ID law to North Carolina you're still trying to bring NC into the debate about the Texas voter ID law

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

b) you're just a reactionary poster and doesn't actually read what someone else posts

That's probably not a tack you should take, nor is it a tack anyone should take.

 cincydooley wrote:

And if you're going to go to those means to defraud the voting system, you'd do it with a state ID as well.

Right, I now see where the "illicit ID" commentary came from.

I was not implying that I have many illicit forms of identification, but that I have multiple student IDs and that they can be reproduced illicitly without difficulty.

I went to a state college. My college ID wasn't accepted for alcohol, smokes, anything. Not sure where the notion that just because a state college issued it it's automatically a state ID came from.

 Cadorius wrote:
Voter ID suppresses the deceased vote. So not only does it fully constitute voter suppression, it's also blatant racism, because some of the deceased are minorities. So there.

Zombies are people too!

 Frazzled wrote:

 Cadorius wrote:
Voter ID suppresses the deceased vote. So not only does it fully constitute voter suppression, it's also blatant racism, because some of the deceased are minorities. So there.

Zombies are people too!

Woah...woah... let's not put labels on people...


Yep... he's a Zombie.

Since people have asked beforehand , here is Keesha Gaskin from the Brennan Center for Justice presenting before the North Carolina House Elections Committee.

And as a bonus so nobody can bitch and moan "You only posted a Democrat viewpoint!", this video contains two very different viewpoints. The Civitas Institute begins their presentation at 8:35 minutes in--with the eversopredictable shots at Keesha for being a lawyer and not having grown up in North Carolina.
Civitas Institute, by the way, is called the "John William Pope Civitas Institute, Incorporated". It is named for the father of Art Pope--who resigned from the Institute in December 2012 to become Pat McCrory's budget director.

Now you want the purely Democrat viewpoint? Here is Bob Hall:

Just so we're still clear here;
* This thread is about Texas, and the fact that the new ID law did not disenfranchise minorities as claimed
* You started to bring NC into the discussion
* People made obvious comparisons
* You stomped your feet and complained that NC was not Texas, so you claimed the comparison was not valid
* You continue to ignore the outcome of the Texas law, and continue to attempt to inject NC into the discussion.


However you want to cut it the Texas Voter ID law did not suppress voters, it did not disenfranchise minorities, but the voter turn out instead increased under it.

So words, what we already knew:

Texas superior NC inferior...



I've got some fond memories of San Angelo,
and I've seen some beauty queens in El Paso,
but the best lookin women that I've ever seen,
have all been in Texas and all wearin jeans

Chorus:
I'm a country plowboy, not an urban cowboy,
and I dont ride bulls but I have fought some men,
drive a pickup truck,
trust in God and luck and I live to love Texas women.

I thought I'd seen beauty in faraway places,
till I looked upon those Houston faces,
spent Hollywood nights up in Beverly Hills,
but they werent nothin like one night down in BROWNSVILLE

Repeat Chorus

I'm a pretty fair judge of the opposite sex,
and I aint seen nothin that will touch em' yet,
they may be from Waco or out in Lampassas,
but one thing about it they all come from Texas.

Repeat Chorus

I'm an Oiler fan not a soccer man,
and my arms are red and so is my blood,
and they make it boil with that soft Texas drawl and I love em all,
Texas women.