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Has this been discussed in the context of Mindshackle Scarabs? It seems like the idea would be the same since you could conceivably have a guy with a lower Ld than some character in the squad making the MSS test. (I looked up the official Necron FAQ and it was not helpful.)

My gut reaction when I first read the War Hyms rule was that it would be against the model's Ld, because it "feels" like a psychic power. The Priest is making an Ld check to manifest some ability. When I read the MSS entry, my gut says that you should use the highest Ld in the unit when that guy makes his check.

Those two cases are obviously the same thing, so I'm really leaning towards the "use the highest Ld" interpretation.

I think this issue is only really going to be solved by everyone who has the Inquisition and Adepta Sororitas codexes emailing gamefaqs@gwplc.com and asking if a model testing for War Hymns uses his leadership, or the highest in the unit.

Questions usually get more response when we get a good mass emailing to show them it's a legitimate issue.

 Nilok wrote:

I don't see how that is relevant. The warlord trait allows friendly models to use a different unit's LD, it dose not state that they test their LD like a psychic test.

It's relevant because one has to take the context of the rule into account and the intent of the people who wrote the rulebook. Not just some power-gamer on Dakka's desire for the rule to be broken to benefit him.

Unless you want to declare that the intent of the rule writers is irrelevant. Which is sort of the meta reason why 40k is at this point in time completely unplayable in a competitive atmosphere and almost everyone I know is now playing warmachine tournaments instead.

I think it would test on the highest leadership available. A priest surrounded by a squad of Sisters of Battle led by a VSS will belt out his War Hymn with more zeal than if he was on his own, atleast that how I imagine it.

D

I'd think the Sister Superior would be too busy scanning for enemies, finding cover, giving orders to her squad and generally leading to start up a sing-a-long.

dadakkaest wrote:
I'd think the Sister Superior would be too busy scanning for enemies, finding cover, giving orders to her squad and generally leading to start up a sing-a-long.

Debatable. Sisters have been known to chant litanies, sing hymns and pray while marching into battle.

dadakkaest wrote:
Which is sort of the meta reason why 40k is at this point in time completely unplayable in a competitive atmosphere and almost everyone I know is now playing warmachine tournaments instead.

So your friends switched to WM therefore everyone who disagrees with your interpretation is wrong and a power gamer. I'll keep that in mind.

dadakkaest wrote:

 Nilok wrote:

I don't see how that is relevant. The warlord trait allows friendly models to use a different unit's LD, it dose not state that they test their LD like a psychic test.

It's relevant because one has to take the context of the rule into account and the intent of the people who wrote the rulebook. Not just some power-gamer on Dakka's desire for the rule to be broken to benefit him.

Unless you want to declare that the intent of the rule writers is irrelevant. Which is sort of the meta reason why 40k is at this point in time completely unplayable in a competitive atmosphere and almost everyone I know is now playing warmachine tournaments instead.

I counter your argument with your argument.

You are declaring that you know the intent of the rule writers, which I promise you that you do not. You are attempting to remove power from a unit in a way that you feel it should be, making them boardline unplayable. If I only make the test on a 7, then I'm not even going to bother. Ld8 for eldar warlocks is hard enough to count on. Only working on Ld7 would make them effectively 25 point CC guardsmen. How amazing would that be? No, I highly doubt that your interpretation is the intended rule, and based on pg. 7, I'm certain that RAW and RAI is clear on this. Always use the higher Ld.

I would say the writers intention is not important when debating rules on this website. This is because the writer is not present to tell us what they intended with the rule, and even if they where present on this site it would be impossible to confirm their identity in such a way that no one here has any doubts to whom they are. Without the writers direct involvement in the discussion it becomes impossible to say for certain which of the many interpretations put forth is the 'official' one. All we have is a bunch of people claiming their own personal interpretations are the 'intent' of the writer.

dadakkaest wrote:

 Nilok wrote:

I don't see how that is relevant. The warlord trait allows friendly models to use a different unit's LD, it dose not state that they test their LD like a psychic test.

It's relevant because one has to take the context of the rule into account and the intent of the people who wrote the rulebook. Not just some power-gamer on Dakka's desire for the rule to be broken to benefit him.

Unless you want to declare that the intent of the rule writers is irrelevant. Which is sort of the meta reason why 40k is at this point in time completely unplayable in a competitive atmosphere and almost everyone I know is now playing warmachine tournaments instead.

Or, you can accept the fact that what you say make no sense, so lets hear it, from a pure tau player that will NEVER field the priest, and will only have the priest against him-YOU USE HIGHEST LEADERSHIP IN THE UNIT.

How is this even a debate? There would be no reason to stipulate the restriction on Psykers if it was generally the case - by such a weird rules interpretation, there would never be a case where the model could use the units leadership unless there was a specific special rule that completely surplanted the models LD directly (thus bypassing the psychic test rule regardless). It says model's leadership. Models use the highest leadership in the squad for leadership tests. It's 100% clear, and this isn't remotely rules lawyering - it's how it's written and how it's been played for at least the past 3 editions.

Just write into gamefaqs@gwplc.com already. The more people who write in about it the more likely we are to see a real FAQ answer about this.

dadakkaest wrote:

 Nilok wrote:

I don't see how that is relevant. The warlord trait allows friendly models to use a different unit's LD, it dose not state that they test their LD like a psychic test.

It's relevant because one has to take the context of the rule into account and the intent of the people who wrote the rulebook. Not just some power-gamer on Dakka's desire for the rule to be broken to benefit him.

Unless you want to declare that the intent of the rule writers is irrelevant. Which is sort of the meta reason why 40k is at this point in time completely unplayable in a competitive atmosphere and almost everyone I know is now playing warmachine tournaments instead.

No it is not. This is a rules or I'm, not an intent forum. We don't debate what we think the writers meant, we debate what the rules actually say.

yes all ask the FAQ<

but the rule is

War Hymns: A model with this special rule can take a Leadership test at the beginning
of each Fight sub-phase in which he is locked in combat. If the test is successful, choose
one of the following war hymns to immediately take effect.

notice the ld test is specifically called upon the model

pg 7 makes reference to either units or models having to take a ld test.

but seems to give any model in a unit the higest ld in that unit.

RAW the model makes the test, on the highest ld

 easysauce wrote:
yes all ask the FAQ<

but the rule is

War Hymns: A model with this special rule can take a Leadership test at the beginning
of each Fight sub-phase in which he is locked in combat. If the test is successful, choose
one of the following war hymns to immediately take effect.

notice the ld test is specifically called upon the model

pg 7 makes reference to either units or models having to take a ld test.

only when a unit takes a test, the rule about "does a unit consist of multiple LD values" rule matter.

when a model is required to take a test, that model must take the test, not the unit.


RAW the model makes the test,

Where does it say on page seven that only if units have to take a test they can use the highest?

you beat me re reading what I wrote by like 30 seconds,
i agree, its the highest in the unit.


although its odly counter intuitive English wise...

RAW yup... ld 10 preists for everyone!