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 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

Except that "Irish" is not a race.

Aye they are, any ethnic grouping is classed as a 'race'. It's a definition that has fallen out of use to a degree but its still correct.


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Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
.especially when they aren't even a member of the group in question.

Neither are you. Put me on your ignore list for spurious reasons all you like but the fact remains that this thread is racist.

Maybe I should start making threads about how Indians smell of curry and see how many people find that funny.

 Palindrome wrote:

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

Except that "Irish" is not a race.

Aye they are, any ethnic grouping is classed as a 'race'. It's a definition that has fallen out of use to a degree but its still correct.

Except that the distinction between race and ethnicity is not so clear cut as your using them almost interchangeably. In fact to do so weakens genuine concerns expressed over inequality based on race. Even the term ethnic has a great many definitions which vary from country to country.

The first time that I heard that joke was actually in an Irish publication. But, as an Irish person I would like to thank you for taking offense on my behalf, and on behalf of those other 4 million or so souls

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

Except that the distinction between race and ethnicity is not so clear cut as your using them almost interchangeably. In fact to do so weakens genuine concerns expressed over inequality based on race

It doesn't as they are both the exact same thing, certainly in this context. In this case racist isn't a very precise word but it's the closest one that fits.

The actual target of these jokes is completely immaterial, lets change it to Scots jokes then shall we so that I am 'entitled' to be offended by cheap racism.

 Palindrome wrote:

The actual target of these jokes is completely immaterial, lets change it to Scots jokes then shall we so that I am 'entitled' to be offended by cheap racism.

That explains it, A bloody haggis basher. The only good thing to come from Scotland, is the road to England.
And the Irish built that

We built a wall to keep you out, and you still get down here.
Signed the auld enermy.

 loki old fart wrote:

We built a wall to keep you out, and you still get down here.
Signed the auld enermy.

Your Italian?

 Palindrome wrote:

 loki old fart wrote:

We built a wall to keep you out, and you still get down here.
Signed the auld enermy.

Your Italian?

Nah an englishman married to an Irish/Scottish/welsh/Italian hybrid, named McLaughlin

Wife just clouted me and said it's Italian not Spanish, so edited it

 Palindrome wrote:

 loki old fart wrote:

We built a wall to keep you out, and you still get down here.
Signed the auld enermy.

Your Italian?

No, she's Nosferatu

 Alfndrate wrote:

 Palindrome wrote:

 loki old fart wrote:

We built a wall to keep you out, and you still get down here.
Signed the auld enermy.

Your Italian?

No, she's Nosferatu

SHE ?

 Palindrome wrote:


Or I simply have a very low tolerance for racism in all its forms. It's a terrible cliche but replace Irish with Black and just see how this thread would turn out.

WE DONT WANT YOUR SYMPATHY YA BISTERD!GIVE IT TO THE Jews/blacks/asians/Arabs/etc WE DONT FE**IN NEED IT!As 100% Irish I proclaim this thread:FUNNY.And you do need thicker skin.Signed:All Irish with a sense of humor.

 loki old fart wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:

 Palindrome wrote:

 loki old fart wrote:

We built a wall to keep you out, and you still get down here.
Signed the auld enermy.

Your Italian?

No, she's Nosferatu

SHE ?

Lol, it's a line from "Dracula: Dead and Loving it". Jonathan Harker and Van Helsing are talking about a woman (I believe Harker's lover), and Harker asks, "she's dead?" To which Van Helsing says, "No", Harker: "She's dead?", Helsing: "No, She's Nosferatu", Harker: "She's Italian?"

Da krimson barun wrote:
WE DONT WANT YOUR SYMPATHY YA BISTERD!GIVE IT TO THE Jews/blacks/asians/Arabs/etc WE DONT FE**IN NEED IT!As 100% Irish I proclaim this thread:FUNNY.And you do need thicker skin.Signed:All Irish with a sense of humor.

Thank you for that badly written and almost entirely irrelevant post.

 Palindrome wrote:

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

Except that "Irish" is not a race.

Aye they are, any ethnic grouping is classed as a 'race'. It's a definition that has fallen out of use to a degree but its still correct.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
.especially when they aren't even a member of the group in question.

Neither are you. Put me on your ignore list for spurious reasons all you like but the fact remains that this thread is racist.

Maybe I should start making threads about how Indians smell of curry and see how many people find that funny.

Mmmm, I love curry. How could that be an insult when curry is delicious and good for you? If the Irish on here aren't offended, why do they have a champion? Just let it go, dude. Nobody else is bothered.

Oh, man. One of the houses I looked at when I moved to Northern Illinois REEKED of Curry. Didn't waste my time on it. Would have had to repaint the walls and replace the carpet to get rid of that smell.

Paddy and Murphy were walking to the pub.
Paddy found a broken mirror, and looked in it. " I know that fella" He exclaimed. "Let me have a look" "to be sure you do, it's me" said Murphy.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Nobody else is bothered.

They should be given that this thread breaks Dakka's rules.

 Palindrome wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Nobody else is bothered.

They should be given that this thread breaks Dakka's rules.

*sigh* and like in every instance where a user feels that a post/user/thread is breaking the rules, you are to click the yellow triangle in the upper right hand corner of the post in question and report them...

I follow Alf around and report EVERY post he makes...

 kronk wrote:
I follow Alf around and report EVERY post he makes...

Whereas I follow Kronk around and exalt EVERY post he makes...

An Englishman a Welshman and a Scot were marooned on a desert island. The food had ran out, and things looked dire.
When a bottle started to float bye, "quick grab that bottle" shouted the Scotsman.
"We can send a message". Upon opening the bottle a genie popped out,"I'll give you three wishes" said the genie.
"I wish I was at home, with a large whiskey, and the wife bringing my fish supper. Whoosh and he disappeared.
"I wish I was walking down the hillside, with the choir singing in the chapel. And my girlfriend running to meet me. Whoosh and he was gone.
"well what about you" said the genie.
"well it's lonely here, I wish my two mate's were here.

 kronk wrote:

Also, I've heard about 80% of the one liners as Aggie Jokes (Texas A&M). Most are older than frazzled.

I'm guessing you are an Aggie, most of the rest of us read the Aggie jokes, but Texas A&M alumni have to be told

So, being a native of Arkansas, here's one of our jokes.

A hump-backed Englishman, a wheelchair-bound Irishman, and an Arkie are in a bar. In walks Jesus Christ. The Englishman motions to the bartender and asks him to send a pint of Ale to Jesus. The Irishman says "Is that our Lord and Savior, well send him a Guinness Stout, and put it on my tab. The Arkie, not to be out-done, asks the bartender to send over a Jack and Coke. A few minutes later, Jesus comes over to the group, thanks them for the drink and talks to them for a minute. As Jesus is getting up, he reaches over and touches the hump and the Englishman is healed. Jesus then thanks the Irishman for the drink, touches him and the Irishman stands up and can walk. He turns to the Arkie and before Jesus can do anything, the Arkie jumps out of his seat and says "Don't touch me!, I'm on disability!"

Race is human, ork, tau, eldar. Ethnicity/country of origin is really a tribal distinction, so I guess the correct word would be tribalism versus racism.

Tye_Informer wrote:

 kronk wrote:

Also, I've heard about 80% of the one liners as Aggie Jokes (Texas A&M). Most are older than frazzled.

I'm guessing you are an Aggie, most of the rest of us read the Aggie jokes, but Texas A&M alumni have to be told

Nah. Louisiana Tech, but love of poking fun at Texas A&M graduates is universal.

Ahhhh.... That's why I love being Irish. But it needs the words ma and da.

I think it depends on the person on whether they will find that offensive or funny. I don't find the original post funny, or "thick mick" jokes in general, and neither did I find it offensive. Stereotype jokes are lazy, and laziness is for (insert racial group here).

Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Palindrome wrote:
I very much doubt that my wife would share you or your father's view and race includes ethnic groups so racism is very much the right word.

Or I simply have a very low tolerance for racism in all its forms. It's a terrible cliche but replace Irish with Black and just see how this thread would turn out.

I've added you to my ignore list. I have no time for hyper ventilating offence seekers, especially when they aren't even a member of the group in question. A few Irish members of Dakka Dakka have said they're not offended. I don't know why you're taking it upon yourself to be offended on their behalf.



Lets have more jokes about us English. I'm suprised no-ones made remarks about the Queen yet.

Thats because the queen is badass.

Remember laddie, in order to converse with his equal, an Irishman is forced to talk to God.


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 Palindrome wrote:

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

Except that the distinction between race and ethnicity is not so clear cut as your using them almost interchangeably. In fact to do so weakens genuine concerns expressed over inequality based on race

It doesn't as they are both the exact same thing, certainly in this context. In this case racist isn't a very precise word but it's the closest one that fits.

The actual target of these jokes is completely immaterial, lets change it to Scots jokes then shall we so that I am 'entitled' to be offended by cheap racism.

This is why we can't have nice things.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 kronk wrote:

Tye_Informer wrote:

 kronk wrote:

Also, I've heard about 80% of the one liners as Aggie Jokes (Texas A&M). Most are older than frazzled.

I'm guessing you are an Aggie, most of the rest of us read the Aggie jokes, but Texas A&M alumni have to be told

Nah. Louisiana Tech, but love of poking fun at Texas A&M graduates is universal.

Then they run you over in your Prius with their Ford 350 double dooleys...

 timetowaste85 wrote:

 Palindrome wrote:

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

Except that "Irish" is not a race.

Aye they are, any ethnic grouping is classed as a 'race'. It's a definition that has fallen out of use to a degree but its still correct.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
.especially when they aren't even a member of the group in question.

Neither are you. Put me on your ignore list for spurious reasons all you like but the fact remains that this thread is racist.

Maybe I should start making threads about how Indians smell of curry and see how many people find that funny.

Mmmm, I love curry. How could that be an insult when curry is delicious and good for you? If the Irish on here aren't offended, why do they have a champion? Just let it go, dude. Nobody else is bothered.

He ain't me *eckin champion!

 Palindrome wrote:
Neither are you. Put me on your ignore list for spurious reasons all you like but the fact remains that In My Not So Humble Opinion this thread is racist.

There you go, fixed that for you. And I believe we're still waiting for an actual Irish person to take offense at this.

Oxforddictionaries.com wrote:the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races:

I certainly don't think that Irish people are inferior in anyway, and nor do I think they're all the same. My Dad is from Belfast (and he makes Irish jokes far more than I ever do). I have an Irish grandmother, and a whole extended northern Irish family on my dads side. One of my uncles (my dads younger brother) converted to Catholicism, considers himself Irish not British and gave his five daughters Irish names, despite having been brought up a Protestant in Belfast (and good luck to him, your identity is what you choose to embrace, whether you were born in that country or not). Hell, Ireland is one of the two places I'd likely choose to emmigrate to (the other being the USA) should I ever want to leave England.

Racism is not in the eyes of the beholder, it is in the attitude and beliefs of the person who makes the remarks. A person is racist if he himself believes that other races are inferior. It is NOT racism if some oversensitive, self righteous offence seeker chooses to regard his words as such and takes offence on other peoples' behalf. You may believe that those words are rude, untactful and even insulting but you cannot make an accusation of racism unless it is clear that the person making those remarks believes that the people he's talking about are inferior.

NO one race, nationality or ethnic group are inferior to others. We're all individuals with individual characteristics and personalities, you'd have to be a bloody idiot yourself to think that all Irish people are stupid, red headed, talk too fast, etc.

Maybe I should start making threads about how Indians smell of curry and see how many people find that funny.

People who eat lots of curries, will tend to smell like curries. As I know from experience with my IRISH dad.

What you seem to be conveniently overlooking is that none of the jokes in the letter (which neither I nor my IRISH dad wrote) were about the actual ethnic (or "racial", as you so hyperbolically put it) characteristics of the Irish. It wasn't mocking the Irish accent, Irish genetics, Irish culture. They were just generic jokes about a not very bright lady. So generic in fact, that some Americans here have said they've heard different versions of some of these one liners in America. You can literally copy and paste these jokes from one nationality to another, and as long as the jokes don't actually mock the characteristics of that nationality or ethnic group, then it isn't really "discriminating" against them.

If I hadn't mentioned the nationality of the 'mother' character (and just named the thread "A mother's letter to her son"), then you wouldn't find it racist would you? Clearly its not the jokes that you find racist. Its the fact that somebody is joking about another group of people. You think that Irish people should be exempt from all jokes and humour, regardless of whether those jokes are actually about their ethnic characteristics (accent, culture, mannerisms, genetics).



It'll be a sad, miserable world when nobody is allowed to joke about anybody else simply because they're part of some minority group that must be given special protections and exemptions from humour (whether they want it or not).


"Did you hear the one about the one legged pirate?"
"Stop! You can't tell that joke! Its offensive to amputees with speech impediments!"

"Did you hear the joke about the 3 Blind Mice?"
"I find that offensive! To laugh at visually impaired rodents is animal abuse!!!"

"An Irishman, Englishman and a Scotsman walk into a bar..."
"You can't say that! Its offensive to the Irish and Scottish!".


Whether stereotype jokes are lazy or not is besides the point. If you can't make good natured jokes and tease other groups, then they're not really integrated into society. By making certain people exempt from what are generic, trivial and harmless jokes (so generic that they could easily be copy & pasted to any other group of people), giving them special exemptions and protections whether they want them or not, you're turning them into outsiders. You're creating an "Us vs Them" scenario.

"Oh no, we mustn't make jokes about them, that would be racist! We need to be extra careful and polite to those people lest they be offended."

If different groups of people are truly comfortable with each other and are equals, then they should feel comortable enough to joke together. When an Englishman makes good natured jokes about the Irish, an Irishman should simply respond with jokes about the English, and that should be the end of it.

 Palindrome wrote:
Neither are you. Put me on your ignore list for spurious reasons all you like but the fact remains that In My Not So Humble Opinion this thread is racist.

My reasons for adding you to my ignore list is because I find this sort of politically correct offence seeking on behalf of others who aren't even bothered to be obnoxious in the extreme. But that didn't stop others quoting your comments, and I couldn't let your racism smears go unchallenged.

People like you are divisive race baiters. By labelling and dividing people into seperate groups based on ethnicity, religion, sexuality, disability etc, declaring that these people are special protected minorities who should be exempt from normal human interaction like humour, and loudly denouncing and demonising anybody who makes jokes about them, you're simply emphasising our differences.

People should be free to joke about and celebrate our differences, and we should emphasise our similarities.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Da krimson barun wrote:
He ain't me *eckin champion!

There ye are ne, Pallindrome. An Irishman takes offence at you taking offence on his behalf.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
dogmatism

1.
the tendency to lay down principles as undeniably true, without consideration of evidence or the opinions of others.

 Palindrome wrote:

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

Except that the distinction between race and ethnicity is not so clear cut as your using them almost interchangeably. In fact to do so weakens genuine concerns expressed over inequality based on race

It doesn't as they are both the exact same thing, certainly in this context. In this case racist isn't a very precise word but it's the closest one that fits.

The actual target of these jokes is completely immaterial, lets change it to Scots jokes then shall we so that I am 'entitled' to be offended by cheap racism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(human_classification)

Race is a classification system used to categorize humans into large and distinct populations or groups by anatomical, cultural, ethnic, genetic, geographical, historical, linguistic, religious, and/or social affiliation. First used to refer to speakers of a common language and then to denote national affiliations, in the 17th century, people began to use the term to relate to observable physical traits. Such use promoted hierarchies favorable to differing ethnic groups. Starting from the 19th century, the term was often used, in a taxonomic sense, to denote genetically differentiated human populations defined by phenotype.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_group

Ethnicity or ethnic group is a socially defined category of people who identify with each other based on a shared social experience or ancestry.[1] Membership of an ethnic group tends to be associated with shared cultural heritage, ancestry, history, homeland, language (dialect) or ideology, and with symbolic systems such as religion, mythology and ritual, cuisine, dressing style, physical appearance

Nope, not the same.

Every single native born Irish person that has contributed to this thread has in no way taken offense at this joke, perhaps that should tell you something. If you are determined to go out of your way to take offense at this on our behalf then please feel free to do so. In fact take as much offense as you want, it is free after all. The rest of us will go on enjoying it for what it is. A bit of harmless fun.
Or you're really troubled you can hit the Yellow Triangle of Friendship and let a moderator have the deciding say in the matter.

I swear it must be the season. I'm involved in a similar discusion about race and discrimination. In my case is by someone decrying discrimination against blonde males and their daily struggle against it because another person made a comment about having a "dumb blonde" moment.

I must say that I was totally unaware of that horrible evidence of "racism" but what can I say, my hair got brunette when I was like 3 and nowadays is black with some grey so I can't understand their pain.

M.

I suppose some fowk just don't have much of a variety in a sense of humour. It's entirely possible to enjoy the humour of something like, say, Frasier (that's the classic posh comedy, isn't it?) plus stuff a little more grounded.

As a Scotsman (Which, incidentally, Palindrome mentioned he is), a lot of our best humour comes from poking fun at ourselves and inviting others into the joke too.

For example, here's a couple of my personal favourites.




And here's another, unique to the internet that's spoilered because, well, lots of swearing...




I could also link the whole series of 'Still Game' too... Best to google for that though.

Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Palindrome wrote:
Neither are you. Put me on your ignore list for spurious reasons all you like but the fact remains that In My Not So Humble Opinion this thread is racist.

There you go, fixed that for you. And I believe we're still waiting for an actual Irish person to take offense at this.

Oxforddictionaries.com wrote:the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races:

I certainly don't think that Irish people are inferior in anyway, and nor do I think they're all the same. My Dad is from Belfast (and he makes Irish jokes far more than I ever do). I have an Irish grandmother, and a whole extended northern Irish family on my dads side. One of my uncles (my dads younger brother) converted to Catholicism, considers himself Irish not British and gave his five daughters Irish names, despite having been brought up a Protestant in Belfast (and good luck to him, your identity is what you choose to embrace, whether you were born in that country or not). Hell, Ireland is one of the two places I'd likely choose to emmigrate to (the other being the USA) should I ever want to leave England.

Racism is not in the eyes of the beholder, it is in the eyes of the person who makes the remarks. A person is racist if he himself believes that other races are inferior. It is NOT racism if some oversensitive, self righteous offence seeker chooses to regard his words as such and takes offence on other peoples' behalf. You may believe that those words are rude, untactful and even insulting but you cannot make an accusation of racism unless it is clear that the person making those remarks believes that the people he's talking about are inferior.

NO one race, nationality or ethnic group are inferior to others. We're all individuals with individual characteristics and personalities, you'd have to be a bloody idiot yourself to think that all Irish people are stupid, red headed, talk too fast, etc.

Maybe I should start making threads about how Indians smell of curry and see how many people find that funny.

People who eat lots of curries, will tend to smell like curries. As I know from experience with my IRISH dad.

What you seem to be conveniently overlooking is that none of the jokes in the letter (which neither I nor my IRISH dad wrote) were about the actual ethnic (or "racial", as you so hyperbolically put it) characteristics of the Irish. It wasn't mocking the Irish accent, Irish genetics, Irish culture. They were just generic jokes about a not very bright lady. So generic in fact, that some Americans here have said they've heard different versions of some of these one liners in America. You can literally copy and paste these jokes from one nationality to another, and as long as the jokes don't actually mock the characteristics of

If I hadn't mentioned the nationality of the 'mother' character (and just named the thread "A mother's letter to her son"), then you wouldn't find it racist would you? Clearly its not the jokes that you find racist. Its the fact that somebody is joking about another group of people. You think that Irish people should be exempt from all jokes and humour, regardless of whether those jokes are actually about their ethnic characteristics (accent, culture, mannerisms, genetics).



It'll be a sad, miserable world when nobody is allowed to joke about anybody else simply because they're part of some minority group that must be given special protections and exemptions from humour (whether they want it or not).


"Did you hear the one about the one legged pirate?"
"Stop! You can't tell that joke! Its offensive to amputees with speech impediments!"

"Did you hear the joke about the 3 Blind Mice?"
"I find that offensive! To laugh at visually impaired rodents is animal abuse!!!"

"An Irishman, Englishman and a Scotsman walk into a bar..."
"You can't say that! Its offensive to the Irish and Scottish!".


Whether stereotype jokes are lazy or not is besides the point. If you can't make good natured jokes and tease other groups, then they're not really integrated into society. By making certain people exempt from what are generic, trivial and harmless jokes (so generic that they could easily be copy & pasted to any other group of people), giving them special exemptions and protections whether they want them or not, you're turning them into outsiders. You're creating an "Us vs Them" scenario.

"Oh no, we mustn't make jokes about them, that would be racist! We need to be extra careful and polite to those people lest they be offended."

If different groups of people are truly comfortable with each other and are equals, then they should feel comortable enough to joke together. When an Englishman makes good natured jokes about the Irish, an Irishman should simply respond with jokes about the English, and that should be the end of it.

 Palindrome wrote:
Neither are you. Put me on your ignore list for spurious reasons all you like but the fact remains that In My Not So Humble Opinion this thread is racist.

My reasons for adding you to my ignore list is because I find this sort of politically correct offence seeking on behalf of others who aren't even bothered to be obnoxious in the extreme. But that didn't stop others quoting your comments, and I couldn't let your racism smears go unchallenged.

People like you are divisive race baiters. By labelling and dividing people into seperate groups based on ethnicity, religion, sexuality, disability etc, declaring that these people are special protected minorities who should be exempt from normal human interaction like humour, and loudly denouncing and demonising anybody who makes jokes about them, you're simply emphasising our differences.

People should be free to joke about and celebrate our differences, and we should emphasise our similarities.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Da krimson barun wrote:
He ain't me *eckin champion!

There ye are ne, Pallindrome. An Irishman takes offence at you taking offence on his behalf.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
dogmatism

1.
the tendency to lay down principles as undeniably true, without consideration of evidence or the opinions of others.

I exalted this so hard I think I broke my mouse.
Well said.