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So, in the not-so-far future there is only war I'd like to start another army. Under favourable circumstances I might be able to afford a 1850 pts. list in addition to my current, WIP CSM EC army, and I thought about a custom Spess Mehrens Chapter descended from the Raven Guard.

HQ:
1 Chapter Master, 245 pts. (Melta Bombs, Relic Blade, The Shield Eternal, Artificer Armour, Jump Pack)

Troops:
10x Tactical Marines, 170 pts. (Plasma Gun, Plasma Pistol on Veteran Sergeant)
10x Tactical Marines, 170 pts. (Plasma Gun, Plasma Pistol on Veteran Sergeant)
10x Tactical Marines, 170 pts. (Plasma Gun, Plasma Pistol on Veteran Sergeant)

Elites:
5x Vanguard Veterans, 205 pts. (4x Lightning Claw, Jump Packs, Relic Blade and Storm Shield on Veteran Sergeant)
5x Vanguard Veterans, 205 pts. (4x Lightning Claw, Jump Packs, Relic Blade and Storm Shield on Veteran Sergeant)
5x Vanguard Veterans, 175 pts. (4x Storm Shield, Jump Packs, LC and Storm Shield on Veteran Sergeant)

Fast Attack:
1 Stormtalon Gunship, 125 pts. (Skyhammer Missile Launcher)
1 Stormtalon Gunship, 125 pts. (Skyhammer Missile Launcher)

Heavy Support:
1 Stormraven Gunship, 230 pts. (Typhoon Missile Launcher, TL Lascannon, Extra Armour)

Total: 1850 pts.

It's supposed to be an infiltration-and-precision-strike focussed army using the Raven Guard Chapter Tactics. Tacticals move forward with the use of Scout (possibly split into 5s with the use of Combat Squads), whilst the CC-monster that is the Chapter Master and his 3 squads of Vanguard (he's supposed to join the third one) engage enemies in vicious close combat. Then, the three fliers come into play and waste the opponent with some 'eavy weapons and loads of missiles.

What do you think about this list?

Armour heavy builds is going to be your bane.

From what I heard heavy vehicles aren't that popular in general. Anyway, my most frequent opponents are Tyranid (MCs), Dark Angels (Deathwing, Ravenwing), Necron (WIP army), and I've seen Orks, Eldar and Dark Eldar players at my closest FLGS. Still, swapped the Stormraven's TL Assault Cannon for a TL Lascannon.

I use two landraider and a vindicator and people are like!??

I don't think your chapter master is legal. The shield eternal replaces a weapon, and the CM and Commander only start out with a bolt pistol and chainsword.

The list is fluffy and cool. You should build it, paint it, and love it.

I don't think it will be very competitive, if you're playing people who really, really, really want to win all the time. Scouts are looking pretty good these days; they're economical, versatile and work well for a fluffy raven-guard list. I haven't played with a scout-heavy Space Marine army myself, but I'm building toward one right now (Elysian Drop Troop helments from FW, mmmmm) and you should at least take a look at them as replacements for your tactical squads.

Scouts are actually -meant- to go on foot. Tac squads with grav guns...eh. It's not a terrible setup, but I think SPESS MEHREENZ on foot will frustrate you in the current climate of bouncing battlesuits and bikes, bikes and moar bikes.

At the very least, the list as you've written it has your bases covered. Dakka can go round and round forever about what's viable in competitive play and what isn't, but from a hobbyist standpoint I think you should run a list like this, and base changes on the outcomes of your battles.

Many thanks for the feedback! I'm far from being a WAAC player, so if this list proved at least semi-competitve, I'd be satisfied. It had originally featured 3 METAL BAWKSES and Plasma Guns on the Tacs, but I decided to take some upgrades that are more appealing to me instead.

Scouts would make perfect sense in that list, but they'd be more expensive (in monies sense) than the Mehreens. Also, they'd get no benefit from the Raven Guard Chapter Tactics, since they have Scout by default.

I've checked the Shield Eternal. It says that the Chapter Master "May take a storm shield", and that "The Shield Eternal is a storm shield (pg 125)". I think it is a legal setup, but I'd have no problem getting rid off the Storm Bolter, and perhaps take Melta Bombs in its place.

Scouts have Scout, but they do not have Stealth! So scouts with camo cloaks in cover are looking at a first turn cover save of at least 3+, possibly 2+.

Real monies is a legitimate concern though. Maybe keep them in mind for later expansion.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, re: the storm shield thing. The army list entry for the CM states that they can take a Storm Shield for 15 pts. You can't get a shield eternal for 15 points, so I think the only reasonable conclusion is that they're only talking about a stock storm shield.

Besides, he'll get maaaaaybe one or two turns of shooting from the storm bolter per game, and even at BS5, it's not a big threat to anyone. I think melta bombs make him more versatile, and it avoids issues at pickup games with people not liking your interpretation of the relic rules.

CDRAlbrecht wrote:
Scouts have Scout, but they do not have Stealth! So scouts with camo cloaks in cover are looking at a first turn cover save of at least 3+, possibly 2+.

Real monies is a legitimate concern though. Maybe keep them in mind for later expansion.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, re: the storm shield thing. The army list entry for the CM states that they can take a Storm Shield for 15 pts. You can't get a shield eternal for 15 points, so I think the only reasonable conclusion is that they're only talking about a stock storm shield.

Besides, he'll get maaaaaybe one or two turns of shooting from the storm bolter per game, and even at BS5, it's not a big threat to anyone. I think melta bombs make him more versatile, and it avoids issues at pickup games with people not liking your interpretation of the relic rules.

Yep, I'd add some Scouts to the army list once the monies appear in a sufficient amount

I'll swap the Storm Bolter for the Melta Bombs, then. Also, whilst I find the Grav-weapons appealing, changing them for Plasma is probably a better choice, since they're more versatile.

One thing: Scouting your Rhino means it gets a 12" move before the game even starts. Then, it can move another 12" in the first turn. Suddenly, your marines are 24" upfield.

Also, plasma v. grav - you want grav on anything slow and purposeful or relentless.

 McNinja wrote:
One thing: Scouting your Rhino means it gets a 12" move before the game even starts. Then, it can move another 12" in the first turn. Suddenly, your marines are 24" upfield.

Also, plasma v. grav - you want grav on anything slow and purposeful or relentless.

Hmm... I could hide some of the Tacticals in METAL BAWKSES... THE COWAHDZ! THE FOOLZ! For instance, replace one 10-man Tactical squad with a 5-man Scout unit and add 2 Rhinos with Dozer Blades. A viable solution, we shall see.

Also, thanks for the tip.

No problem. I've scouted a Land Raider with Centurions, it worked pretty well.

If you decide to go with rhinos, be sure and buy the Razorback kit. It's more expensive, but you can make a Rhino out of it and still have the bits to make it a Razorback if you need to.

CDRAlbrecht wrote:
If you decide to go with rhinos, be sure and buy the Razorback kit. It's more expensive, but you can make a Rhino out of it and still have the bits to make it a Razorback if you need to.

Well, the difference in price is small. If I want some METAL BAWKSES, I'll buy the Razorbacks.