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I was just wondering what Dakka thinks about this:

CSM Daemon Prince w/ MoT, Power Armour, Wings, Black Mace, GoM, Mastery Level 3 and Spell Familiar.

is it too much for a Daemon Prince, what could I do without while still making it effective and fluffy?

It's only too much if it gets wiped off the table and you say to yourself "I should not have put that many points into one model."

I use that exact model and I can say without a doubt that it is worth it's weight in gold. In CC it absolutely annihilates the enemy AND since you have to take a tzeentch power you will have a bit of shooting to soften up the opponent before charging. You can then spend the rest of telepathy and biomancy to help buff yourself and the of CC units around you.

The only trouble is sometimes getting him to the fight, but with wings you can just glide over there and will have him chopping up the enemy in no time.

HOWEVER be careful as although he is a CC beast he does have counters (F$%kin whipcoils ) and he can be insta-gibbed by s10 weapons still, so watch out of demolisher shots.

Okay thanks, I was talking to my best mate and he said that it was really expensive and would be focused on. But he plays Necrons, but doesn't have wraiths.

Yeah, but that is one of the main reasons that you WOULD take him, as he can absorb massive amounts of small arms fire, which keeps it away from your bererkers or whatever other units you have because, let's face it, CSM are a CC army.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I take two, One tzeentch with powers but no wings to absorb fire and buff troops while a khorne DP runs in with the black mace and chops stuff up. If it's a small game however I'll just take the loadout you put up.

ALWAYS get power armour, otherwise your wounds will drop like flies.

 thetallestgiraffe wrote:
Yeah, but that is one of the main reasons that you WOULD take him, as he can absorb massive amounts of small arms fire, which keeps it away from your bererkers or whatever other units you have because, let's face it, CSM are a CC army.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I take two, One tzeentch with powers but no wings to absorb fire and buff troops while a khorne DP runs in with the black mace and chops stuff up. If it's a small game however I'll just take the loadout you put up.

ALWAYS get power armour, otherwise your wounds will drop like flies.

I will always take Power Armour and probably wings even in small games because he probably can't be touched.

The rule of thumb with Daemon Princes is go big or go home, or go dirt cheap.

The Tzeentch one is my favorite as you can get Tzeentch power that gives you a chaos boon and keep using it on yourself throughout a game With Fateweaver you have insurance you don't spawn yourself.

Glocknall wrote:
The rule of thumb with Daemon Princes is go big or go home, or go dirt cheap.

The Tzeentch one is my favorite as you can get Tzeentch power that gives you a chaos boon and keep using it on yourself throughout a game With Fateweaver you have insurance you don't spawn yourself.

I think I have gone pretty big

Not worth it ever, I like running the DP cheap for CSM as your ML forces you to roll on the useless CSM table...

It's also not worth it due to T5, if you see plasma spam you can say goodbye to your DP.
Also, Tau can probably gun you down anyway, with the amount of t6/7 shots....

Tomb King did very well in a tournament with a 355 point DP, that seems to affirm its worth.

Things to consider:
do I have fateweaver and grimoire? If so I can give him 3++/2++ reliably
Why am I not taking codex daemons dp instead? Black mace, HQ requirement

With this in mind I tend to just go MoT,black mace, wings, power armour. You destroy everything in close combat anyway, you can grim up I'd you need to and if you want a more survivable shooty one you can take another one from daemons and get 3 biomancy powers and portaglyph.

The more fmc the better, if you are taking one, take 4.

Honestly I'm not sure that a 3 level mastery is really worth it, I think it depends on how many points your game is.
With the Spell Familiar it's 90 points of upgrades, which is not exactly irrelevant in a codex where everything (bar the Heldrake and few other exceptions) is overpriced or need something really expensive to work properly. For just 25 points more you could buy a Lv3 Sorcerer with a Spell Familiar, which gives you exactly the same amount of psychic power, but with another powerful character

They would be really worth it if it gave you a high chance of rolling Iron Arm and Endurance, because both of them would make your DP really unstoppable. But with 2 rolls (and no rerolls) on Biomancy it's highly unlikely..

Not saying it's a bad idea, just try it in a few games without the Psyker abilities and see what you think

If your playing a fun game then yes it's worth it.

dp load out for me is AobF and MoK. safe to say wings and armour are mandatory. that many s9 ap2 attacks make smashing redundant and at 255 points he is cheapish for his ability to remove practically anything he touches.

as psykers go demon princes are purely fluffy and not as good as true sorcerers due to ld9 and having to roll on the csm psyker powers list. if you want to buff your army than unmarkerd sorcerers work best. if however you want mind bullets than why are you nor using airiman? he infiltrates parts of your army and fires 3 witch fires a turn. I realy don't geet why he doesn't see much use

 Blackskull wrote:
dp load out for me is AobF and MoK. safe to say wings and armour are mandatory. that many s9 ap2 attacks make smashing redundant and at 255 points he is cheapish for his ability to remove practically anything he touches.

The toss up between black mace (MoT) and AoBF (MoK) is:
+1 S on first round of combat or reroll saving throws of 1
+1 WS for mace
S6 fleshbane vs S8 axe
T tests nova effect on mace - this happens after you consolidate which is cool since you can sometimes get wounds on guys you aren't even fighting.
+10 points for mace

For me the fact that you have fleshbane makes the strength largely irrelevant. Any vehicles you charge are going to blow up anyway with smash attacks at S10 (4+D6 attacks with mace) vs S9 (6+D6 attacks with axe) and against anything else fleshbane makes it better. So the question is: would you pay 10 points for +1WS, Reroll saves of 1 and the mace nova effect? for me it's a yes.

The only reason I can see to take axe is if you already have a mace prince but this means your not taking daemons as primary so won't get the awesomeness of kairos + grimoire (unless a dp of Tzeentch comes as the heavy support carrying it which is sub optimal).