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Ok, I'm trying to build a drop pod assault list with tactical marines and stern guard. I also love calgar and tiggy, so I'd like Ultramarines, but I don't know what's best. My current idea is both characters mentioned, 2 x 10 tac marines in pods, 2 x 5 stern guard in pods, 5 honour guard in a pod, then allied crimson fists with kantor, 5 x stern guard (scoring due to kantor) in a pod and a 10 man tac squad in a pod! Thoughts?

Tigurius isn't a bad model, but he is very specialized and forces you to take chapter tactics that you might otherwise want to avoid. Consider whether the new Codex: Inquisition can provide you with the psyker support you need.

As for preferred chapter tactics? I suggest either White Scars (bikes, without Khan) or Salamanders (drop pods, with Vulkan contingent upon the size of your contingent).

Another option is to take main force smurfs, with allied in salamanders for the melta/flamer buffs which are great from dropoods. edit: im bad at reading and didn't see corollaxs suggestion for salamanders

Whether you focus on vehicles or infantry (or both) Iron Hands CTs are generic enough to be useful to anyone.

Buddha: I tend to think of White Scars and Salamanders as being just a tiny step above Iron Hands, but I can see the argument you're making. It's definitely my 3rd choice.

So there is no shout for ultra marines? I thought that with 3 tac squads dropping with the tac doctrine and the dev doctrine being useful you can form quite a formidable amount if firepower. Add tiggy in there for prescience and calgar for double doctrine and you're laughing surely?

I'm not the type to laugh at train wrecks. Maybe someone else?

You're talking about 7 different units. Only 2 of them will really benefit from the tactical doctrine. Sure the honor guard will get to re-roll ones for a single shooting phase but the odds of you rolling ones on only 5 dice, 10 if you are lucky enough to be able to drop a pod within range of a viable target, is actually very low. The stern guard should not have bolters, Sterguard squads are in a worse situation. While you'll have 10 men among those two stern guard squads you shouldn't have that many bolters in those squads. The devastator doctrine won't help unless your being charged and the opponent is not going to charge enough of your army all in one turn to justify that tactic with out any devastators. If he does charge your entire army something else has gone wrong. The uletramarine tactics are just to clunky and situational to be a reliable choice. The popular tactics mentioned in this thread become viable if you build your list around them and that is something you can control and that makes them reliable.

I would say go with Imperial Fist chapter tactics. If you make Pedro the primary detachment then all the Sternguard are scoring, and all the tactical squad bolters get to reroll 1's (making them pretty much BS 5). Pedro lets you take a squad of Honor Guard so you dont lose anything there.

If you really want one of the smurf characters then you could take one in a llied detacment, or if what that guys supposed to do is be a beatstick, you now get access to Lysander.

Honestly as others have mentioned this list is a little bit light on punching power, what it could use is some devastators, and what makes Devs awesome? Imperial Fist chapter Tactics.

I would say +1 to bobs idea on imperial fist , but more importantly look into the imperial fist supplement as well, that version changes bolter drill so all bolter shots at half distance are twinlinked. As you are running a pod list your already going to try to drop in rapid fire range making the most out the bolter drill changes.

I would condense the drop pods to 3 total;

1x 9 Tacticals (Tiggy wagon)
1x 10 Tacticals
1x 10 Sternguard.

1) Make use of combat squads (avoid diminishing returns on lots of drop pods!)
2) Make use of Tiggies
a) Warlord trait (Sternguard)
b) Tiggies shooting potential (can't use a blessing whilst drop-podding?)
c) Blessing powers in future turns, to keep up the pressure
3)2 other 5man squads in pods > Or better yet, invest 270 in TFC Pods; For some serious t1 alpha.

This should be cookie-cutter by now?

Corollax wrote:
I'm not the type to laugh at train wrecks. Maybe someone else?

That's good. Having never played marines before I'm looking for advice, suggestions and help - not ridicule.

Ah, okay. I can see where a new player might get snowballed by the Ultramarines chapter tactics. It looks like a lot, but they're all once per game, most affect only a particular type of unit, and they generally provide only a very small increase to the effectiveness of that unit.

An experienced player will be able to recognize all these drawbacks and say "meh." If you don't have the background to recognize it...yeah, okay.

I have played using both IF and IH chapter tactics. Of the two, for my army, IF was more useful. I tend to run a lot of tac marines, and rerolling 1's for all those bolters should not be underestimated. Also, if you run Centurions (with ML) or Devastators, IF makes them soooo much better.

IF Chapter Tactics(Pedro) with Allied Salamanders is a great Drop list, IMO.

Both make good use of :
Tacticals - IFs win out a bit, but do very well out of Pods. Put Meltas here if need be, 5-man Tactical for Salamanders with Flamers.

Sternguard - Pedro's are Scoring and great to Combat Squad with a few Meltas mixed in. For Salamanders, it gives access to Droppable Heavy Flamers in 5-man squads with perhaps 2 Combi-flamers. Om nom nom.

At the moment imperial fists and salamanders are the two I'm torn between. Ideally I only want to take a single chapter.

So do people have any list suggestions based on these facts?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
OK, I've had a go and come up with this......

2000 Pts - Codex: Space Marines Roster

Total Roster Cost: 2000

HQ: Vulkan He'stan (1#, 190 pts)
1 Vulkan He'stan (Warlord)

: Command Squad (6#, 180 pts)
4 Command Squad + Flamer x4 + Apothecary
1 Apothecary
1 Drop Pod + Locator Beacon

Elite: Sternguard Veteran Squad (11#, 320 pts)
9 Sternguard Veteran Squad + Combi-Meltagun x2 + Heavy Flamer x2
1 Veteran Sergeant + Power Sword
1 Drop Pod

Elite: Sternguard Veteran Squad (11#, 330 pts)
9 Sternguard Veteran Squad + Combi-Meltagun x2 + Heavy Flamer x2
1 Veteran Sergeant + Power Fist
1 Drop Pod

Elite: Sternguard Veteran Squad (11#, 330 pts)
9 Sternguard Veteran Squad + Combi-Meltagun x2 + Heavy Flamer x2
1 Veteran Sergeant + Power Fist
1 Drop Pod

Troops: Tactical Squad (11#, 220 pts)
9 Tactical Squad + Meltagun + Multi-melta
1 Veteran Sergeant + Plasma Pistol + Upgrade to Veteran Sergeant
1 Drop Pod

Troops: Tactical Squad (11#, 215 pts)
9 Tactical Squad + Flamer + Multi-melta
1 Veteran Sergeant + Power Sword + Upgrade to Veteran Sergeant
1 Drop Pod

Troops: Tactical Squad (11#, 215 pts)
9 Tactical Squad + Flamer + Multi-melta
1 Veteran Sergeant + Power Sword + Upgrade to Veteran Sergeant
1 Drop Pod

Goal of a Drop Pod Army
Alpha Strike
Part of the role of a drop pod list is to deliver one nasty alpha strike. Your alpha strike needs to be able to cripple some wave serpents, kill key threats, or bring a big enough threat to the table that you opponent cannot ignore it.
Given that most psychic powers must be cast during the start of your turn, that tool is unavailable for delivering damage as an alpha strike. Your options are
- Abilities that twin-link (Vulkan)
- Abilities that let you reroll 1s (preferred enemy, tactical doctrine)

Durability
A drop pod list needs to be able to survive some return fire. Dropping 20 marines on turn one is not enough. You can and will get tabled by today's competitive armies. Even if you manage to cripple 3-4 wave serpents, you the other 4-5 can still kill 20 marines in one round of shooting.

Tools in the Kit
This is a list of the models your army needs to be able to address. You will see them in games today.
- Riptides
- Broadsides / Wraithknights
- Wave Serpents
- FMCs
- Wraiths
- Nids
- Marines
Melta and plasma are great tools for this. Flamers can be used for some of these roles as well, and can really help fill the gap when your dealing with hoards of gaunt's.

Reserve Manipulation
A drop pod army benifits greatly from anything that allows reserve manipulation. It could be an ADL and comm-relay you put in the middle of the board. It could be using an IC who gives +1 to your rolls. It does not matter what you do, reserve manipluation is a strong advantage.



Chapter Tactics
First and foremost, you are not limited to one chapter tactic. You can, and should ally with another marine army for maximum benefit. 80% of the 'most winning' armies have allies -- you should too.
Do not feel obliged to stick with one CT forever. Try one out for a few games. If you don't like it -- change it up. You will not be judged for that.

UltraMarines
Ultramarines can assist with this alpha strike by using the tactical doctrine on the turn you drop in. Look at the scaling of hits.
BS 4 : 66.7% Rerolling 1s : 77.8% Twin Linked : 88.9%So you can see that the tactical doctrine of marines is not halfway between twin-linked and non-twin linked.

Ultramarines also give strong reserve manipulation with Tigurius. He comes built in with a comm-relay which is a very strong advantage. He also has the warlord trait to make a unit twin-linked. While he cannot cast on the turn he lands, he can cast on subsequent turns. This can be a great assist to your game plan. Tigurius increases the chances of you getting powers like "Misfortune" or "Ignore Cover" which are extremely useful in handling some of the more dangerous units in the game today.

Ultramarines also have other tools in their kit. If your facing FMC spam and all of your opponents FMCs are swooping, you can burn the dev doctrine to give yourself a 30% to hit. The difference between 16% of your guns hitting and 30% of them hitting is significant.

Personally I would always go with Ultramarines as my primary because of Tigurius -- but that's personal preference.

Imperial Fists
IF give the ability to twin link bolters at close range. This can be pretty useful when your looking to deliver a massive amount of bolter shots. Given that your pods are likely to be in rapid fire range, I suggest going with the Sentenels of Terra bolter drill as its 11% more effective than the non-sentenels version.

This does not effect sternguard special ammo, so if your planning going with IF, I am not sure if sternguard spam is the way you want to go. This is a shame, as sternguard provide a number of good tools to deal with targets like wraithknights.

Salamanders
Salamanders with Vulcan give the ability to increase alpha strike damage by twin-linking melta and flamer weapons. This is a strong option and one I would consider.

You can also bring LotD - which benefit greatly from Vulcan. Twin-linked / ignore covering shots are very dangerous to wave serpents.

Iron Hands
Iron hands are 1/6 more durable than other marines. There is something to be said about this as it means that the 40 marines you drop on turn 1 are as tough as 46.6 marines dropped form a different chapter.

IH also gets the perk of having extremely tough chapter masters. That's nothing to sneeze at.

Raven Guard
Useless in a drop pod army

White Scars
Hit and run is a nice boon. It increases your suvivability -- but compared to the other chapter tacitcs I think that its not the best choice.

Black Templars
5 templars and 5 crusaders are 20 points cheaper than 10 marines in a drop pod. That means you can almost squeeze in one more pod into your army (depending on the size). I don't see this as being worth it, but your mileage may vary.


Allies
If you want to run allies, there are options avilable other than just C:SM. Even if your taking something like Tigurius, you can still set your allied pods to cmoe in turn 1 so you can take full advantae of your reserve manipulation.

Space Wolves
Wolves are still rock solid drop pods. Cheap special weapons. Counter-attack. Extra CCWs. Wolf Banners. Rune priests / Wolf Priests. Its really hard to go wrong here.

Blood Angels
I just don't see this working well, but some people seem to think that BA drop pod spam is still alive and well.

Dark Angles
You might be able to make something work with the bolter banner. You would want that to come in on turn 2, so all your normal marines are already sitting still on the board. If you could pull it off -- 40 marines with salvo 4 boltesr can produce a lot of firepower.
DA has a few good items in the toolkit as well. Power field generators. Cheap divination librairans. You can use these to your advantage.

Inquistion
I'm a bit hard pressed to find an easy way to add C:I squads to a drop pod army. Simply put -- they don't drop!

The best thing I've been able to come up with is having an inquisitor in terminator armor (with psycannon or incinerator) deep strike in on turn 2 next to a squad and join the fray there. If your not bothering with prescience, you can use his powers on turn 2 (as his powers all are used in phases other than the start of the turn) -- or just wait till turn 3 to use prescience.

The reserve manipulation is what I am lacking.

I 100% agree with labmouse's analysis. I really don't like the UM tactics that much, but Tiggy is nutso good.

But is he worth taking over a salamanders tactics in a close strike list packed full of melta and flamer weapons?

As for his crimson fist analysis, I think they have a benefit with Kantor making Sternguard scoring!

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
But is he worth taking over a salamanders tactics in a close strike list packed full of melta and flamer weapons?

As for his crimson fist analysis, I think they have a benefit with Kantor making Sternguard scoring!

With allies your not restricted to chocolate, vanilla or strawberry. You can have neapolitan armies instead.

 labmouse42 wrote:

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
But is he worth taking over a salamanders tactics in a close strike list packed full of melta and flamer weapons?

As for his crimson fist analysis, I think they have a benefit with Kantor making Sternguard scoring!

With allies your not restricted to chocolate, vanilla or strawberry. You can have neapolitan armies instead.

Yeah I know, and I love that fact you can. But, I'd like to stick to a single chapter - I'm a fan of fluff! Is it viable?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
OK, here's my second attempt:

2000 Pts - Codex: Space Marines Roster

Total Roster Cost: 2000

HQ: Vulkan He'stan (1#, 190 pts)
1 Vulkan He'stan (Warlord)

: Command Squad (6#, 210 pts)
4 Command Squad + Storm Shield x4 + Flamer x4 + Apothecary
1 Drop Pod

Elite: Sternguard Veteran Squad (11#, 325 pts)
9 Sternguard Veteran Squad + Combi-Meltagun x2 + Heavy Flamer x2
1 Veteran Sergeant + Melta Bombs + Power Sword
1 Drop Pod

Elite: Sternguard Veteran Squad (11#, 330 pts)
9 Sternguard Veteran Squad + Combi-Meltagun x2 + Heavy Flamer x2
1 Veteran Sergeant + Power Fist
1 Drop Pod

Elite: Sternguard Veteran Squad (11#, 330 pts)
9 Sternguard Veteran Squad + Combi-Meltagun x2 + Heavy Flamer x2
1 Veteran Sergeant + Power Fist
1 Drop Pod

Troops: Tactical Squad (11#, 205 pts)
9 Tactical Squad + Meltagun + Multi-melta
1 Sergeant + Combi-Meltagun
1 Drop Pod

Troops: Tactical Squad (11#, 205 pts)
9 Tactical Squad + Meltagun + Multi-melta
1 Sergeant + Combi-Meltagun
1 Drop Pod

Troops: Tactical Squad (11#, 205 pts)
9 Tactical Squad + Meltagun + Multi-melta
1 Sergeant + Combi-Meltagun
1 Drop Pod

Labmouse42, you might actually be on to something. I actually think Ultramarines tactics are overlooked when thinking about drop pod armies. I'm contemplating taking calgar though over tiggy - mainly because I love him! Is it do-able with him? I know tiggy gains things like prescience, and gains reserve manipulation, but calgar gets double doctrine, and with his terminator armour he has a relentless orbital bombardment!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
OK, Here it is:

2000 Pts - Codex: Space Marines Roster

Total Roster Cost: 2000

HQ: Marneus Calgar (1#, 285 pts)
1 Marneus Calgar + Armour of Antilochus (Warlord)

HQ: Chief Librarian Tigurius (1#, 165 pts)
1 Chief Librarian Tigurius

: Honour Guard (5#, 170 pts)
1 Chapter Banner
1 Chapter Champion + Power Sword
1 Honour Guard + Power Sword
1 Honour Guard + Power Axe
1 Honour Guard + Power Axe
1 Drop Pod

Elite: Sternguard Veteran Squad (11#, 315 pts)
9 Sternguard Veteran Squad + Combi-Meltagun x2 + Meltagun x2
1 Veteran Sergeant + Combi-Meltagun
1 Drop Pod

Elite: Sternguard Veteran Squad (11#, 335 pts)
9 Sternguard Veteran Squad + Combi-Meltagun x2 + Meltagun x2
1 Veteran Sergeant + Melta Bombs + Power Sword + Combi-Meltagun
1 Drop Pod

Troops: Tactical Squad (11#, 195 pts)
9 Tactical Squad + Meltagun
1 Sergeant + Combi-Meltagun
1 Drop Pod

Troops: Tactical Squad (11#, 195 pts)
9 Tactical Squad + Meltagun
1 Sergeant + Combi-Meltagun
1 Drop Pod

Troops: Tactical Squad (11#, 195 pts)
9 Tactical Squad + Meltagun
1 Sergeant + Combi-Meltagun
1 Drop Pod

Heavy Support: Devastator Squad (6#, 145 pts)
4 Devastator Squad + Multi-melta x4
1 Sergeant
1 Drop Pod

Try it and see. Proxy for a while and see how it goes.

 labmouse42 wrote:
Try it and see. Proxy for a while and see how it goes.

I will bud, but what do you think of it?

It is a drop pod list, that is what I think.

Don't roll bad and pick your targets correctly and you will be competitive. If you roll bad and your reserves trickle in, your going to suffer. If they have a lot of intercept, they can shoot your pods down before they land and then all the guys inside have to take Str 10 no armor saves (BRB, pg 81 Crash and Burn), so named characters without EW might get IDed this way. Your opponent could also have a reserve list, so get ready for that fun.

It is a risk, there is always a risk.

I didn't realise drop pods could be intercepted that way? But that's ok, a gamble I'll have to take! Glad you think it could be semi competitive though! Thanks dude


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok, drop pods never suffer crash and burn! Interceptor happens at the end of the movement phase! So no S10 shots ;-) I've just read it!