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2013/11/20 08:03:23
Subject: 2000pts. Mechanized or Battlesuit Tau: Final Army
Hello once again fellow Commanders! After being away from the game for a while due to work and school I finally will now have some time to put together and build up and play an army as I have a good amount of cash saved up thanks to all the work I have been doing. I first want to thank you all for replying and positng on my previous posts as you gave me some very good ideas and stratagems that have helped me decide on which army I want to build for my 2nd army (a quest I have been on for the past few months). I have been dabbling in ideas of running either an Eldar, Tau, Tyranid, Ork or Space Marine army and have played a multitide of test games to try and decide on which one, on top of ideas and lists I have posted on here and your responses.
In the end I found out the following: Mech Eldar is boring to play as there is no real strategy with Wave Serpent Spam, Tyranids MC spam is okay but boring just running at people, Orks were a blast but I am not a fan of horde armies and Space Marines, well everyone has Space Marines. Now that being the case I have settled on putting together one of the following lists: A Mechanized or Battlesuit Tau army as I had the most fun playing with them during my testing phase. However I want to decide on what my final army will be before I buy anything (so I don't make any un-needed purchases). Basically from you guys I want you to put your input as to which army you think I should go, the pros and cons of each list and any changes you feel that I need for both. Thanks for your input guys!
MECHANZIED ARMY:
Spoiler:
HQ:
-Commander (*Warlord*)
*w/ x2 Missile Pods, Drone Controller, Target Lock, x2 Marker Light Drones, Neuroweb System Jammer, Repulsor Impact Field
-Commander sits back with a squad of marker drones (*note i had 10 extra points so I gave my commander the Repulsor Impact Field, if you guys see another spot those points would do better please let me know*). He will sit back and shoot missiles while the drones marker light stuff for the rest of my army.
-My single Riptide kitted out for anti-air with the super Heavy Burst Cannon and either Fusion Blaster or Smart Missile System to provide fire support and be my dedicated anti-air unit.
-x30 Fire Warriors in total sitting inside devilfish who will "kite" my opponent bombarding them with smart missiles and burst cannon fire as well as zooming up to snag objectives. Fireblade will be in the "command squad" of Fire Warriors.
-Two squadrons of x3 Piranhas zipping around with lots of cheap firepower from their spam of burst cannon shots. They will screen my devilfish or act as a mobile reserve if the enemy gets to close.
-x2 Hammerheads and x2 Skyrays to handle any armor my opponent may throw my way, as well as adding in some more markerlights to my army. Both Hammerheads can handle armor and infantry while the Skyrays will be there to unload missiles at flyers, vehicles, heavy infantry, ect.
-Commanders attach themselves to the Marker Drone teams and give them BS 5 while bombarding the opponent with missiles, putting these guys into a support role of sorts for the rest of my army as Marker Lights would have been quite handy a few times when I was play testing my first list.
-x2 Riptides with the Ion Accelerator along with a TL Fusion Blaster with Skyfire and Interceptor whose job is my anti air and to handle any heavy armor that I may be facing. I also have x1 Heavy Burst Cannon suit with a TL Smart Missile System that has the "Earth Caste Pilot" which makes this thing brutal.
-For my Troops I went with multiple Crisis Suit Variants to give me an array of flexible options. The x2 Fusion Blaster & Flamer teams will focus on Armor or MC if they have any or infantry camping on objectives or behind the Aegis Defence Line. They will be arriving from deepstrike with the plan of making up their points when they come in or even being a distraction for the rest of my army.
-The x2 Suits with Burst Cannons will focus on anti-infantry detail pumping out a ridiculous 36 S5 AP5 shots a turn, these guys were my MVP's in nearly every game I test played as they would almost wipe out anything they shot at in one round.
-The x2 Crisis teams with Missile Pods play a supporting role and help the other two teams in anyway they can. Also all have some shield drones to keep my missile suits alive as they will be out of range making it pointless if I gave them Gun Drones
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/20 08:04:30
19th Krieg Siege Army 7500pts.
40k/HH Night Lords 5000pts.
Orks Waaaghmacht Spearhead 2500pts.
2013/11/20 10:45:03
Subject: Re:2000pts. Mechanized or Battlesuit Tau: Final Army
I can't post any comment/advice as usually i don't play Tau, just some "exchange" army with a friend (you know, "hey, let's change, i play with your army and you play with mine!" "ye, let's try this") so excuse me if this is not accepted or sounds off topic.
Anyway i got caught by your saying
Mech Eldar is boring to play as there is no real strategy with Wave Serpent Spam, Tyranids MC spam is okay but boring just running at people
well, onestly your second list (the battlesuit one) is just as those, i mean 3 riptides = sure victory, if you don't die from nova charging first turn xD, also all the crisis will put out enought firepower to table nearly anyone who is not playing a horde army, and maybe even there they could have some trouble.
If i were you, i would think two things: want a fun game, let's say competitive with a friend? mechanizied list. You want to win the tournament or table a player who you don't like, maybe a little revenge? battlesuit army
The only lists i could see you in trouble (not so much in the end) with the battlesuit army is against a flying list (who don't have problems with those xD ) so a CSM flying circus (3 drakes) or IG spamming vendettas or necrons death croissants, those thing are annoying for everyone except the owning player
I repeat, i know this is not what you asked but i'm writing as a "normal" player, who knows how annoying could be a riptide spam list (in my experience played only once against a triple riptide and got tabled at turn 4, playing my DA, nearly couldn't even get in fire range... next game against that player i've refused to play as a triple rip is simply to much, and in my local store i'm not the only one thinking in that way) so i hope you will not fire on me for posting advice from "fun side of playing" instead on the "doing whatever it takes to win" side
4500+
2500
1000 (WIP)
2013/11/20 11:16:14
Subject: Re:2000pts. Mechanized or Battlesuit Tau: Final Army
Kimbaras wrote: I can't post any comment/advice as usually i don't play Tau, just some "exchange" army with a friend (you know, "hey, let's change, i play with your army and you play with mine!" "ye, let's try this") so excuse me if this is not accepted or sounds off topic.
Anyway i got caught by your saying
Mech Eldar is boring to play as there is no real strategy with Wave Serpent Spam, Tyranids MC spam is okay but boring just running at people
well, onestly your second list (the battlesuit one) is just as those, i mean 3 riptides = sure victory, if you don't die from nova charging first turn xD, also all the crisis will put out enought firepower to table nearly anyone who is not playing a horde army, and maybe even there they could have some trouble.
If i were you, i would think two things: want a fun game, let's say competitive with a friend? mechanizied list. You want to win the tournament or table a player who you don't like, maybe a little revenge? battlesuit army
Not at all man and it is a good and valid point. Maybe I should have been clearer in my first post but my entire store is super competitive, even in friendly games so BOTH of these armies were designed with competitive play in mind and that was the goal. I only mention the Mech Eldar as boring because with Wave Serpent Spam you literally sit there and just scatter laser people to death. Hope this clears things up and thank you for the tips, I can see what you mean about the Mech list being more fun to play!
19th Krieg Siege Army 7500pts.
40k/HH Night Lords 5000pts.
Orks Waaaghmacht Spearhead 2500pts.
2013/11/20 11:22:19
Subject: 2000pts. Mechanized or Battlesuit Tau: Final Army
Hehe ye, got the sentence wrong xD
Anyway, if your store is super competitive then go battlesuit and make them cry xD (oh and if you can, have some mercy on the fellows DA players xD)
4500+
2500
1000 (WIP)
2013/11/20 17:43:03
Subject: Re:2000pts. Mechanized or Battlesuit Tau: Final Army
Kimbaras wrote: I can't post any comment/advice as usually i don't play Tau, just some "exchange" army with a friend (you know, "hey, let's change, i play with your army and you play with mine!" "ye, let's try this") so excuse me if this is not accepted or sounds off topic.
Anyway i got caught by your saying
Mech Eldar is boring to play as there is no real strategy with Wave Serpent Spam, Tyranids MC spam is okay but boring just running at people
well, onestly your second list (the battlesuit one) is just as those, i mean 3 riptides = sure victory, if you don't die from nova charging first turn xD, also all the crisis will put out enought firepower to table nearly anyone who is not playing a horde army, and maybe even there they could have some trouble.
If i were you, i would think two things: want a fun game, let's say competitive with a friend? mechanizied list. You want to win the tournament or table a player who you don't like, maybe a little revenge? battlesuit army
The only lists i could see you in trouble (not so much in the end) with the battlesuit army is against a flying list (who don't have problems with those xD ) so a CSM flying circus (3 drakes) or IG spamming vendettas or necrons death croissants, those thing are annoying for everyone except the owning player
I repeat, i know this is not what you asked but i'm writing as a "normal" player, who knows how annoying could be a riptide spam list (in my experience played only once against a triple riptide and got tabled at turn 4, playing my DA, nearly couldn't even get in fire range... next game against that player i've refused to play as a triple rip is simply to much, and in my local store i'm not the only one thinking in that way) so i hope you will not fire on me for posting advice from "fun side of playing" instead on the "doing whatever it takes to win" side
"i mean 3 riptides = sure victory"
Wow, what an uniformed overreaching internet statement.
To the OP, play the style you like. Personally, I like running a Battlesuit based list. Your list is ok, and has the framework of a very good list.
Firstly, drop the Counterfire Defense System, you need a VT on your ECPA Riptide, it is hands down better at AA than both of your IA Riptides combined. Your army has absolutely little reliable AA, VT IA Riptides aren't very effective and are better off targetting ground targets. As is any FMC, Dual Helldrake, Flyer based list will destroy you. You can keep the VTs on the IA Riptides, they aren't great, but with the ECPA HBC VT Riptide you will have adequate AA. I'd still recommend swapping one to another HBC, but you can manage as is.
Drop the Shield Drones from your Missile Squads and drop your squads of Marker drones. Add six marker drones to each MIssile Pod Crisis Team. It will give you more Markerlights, fewer KPs, and no wasted firepower thanks to Target Locks on your Commanders and your MPSuits. And it costs less, enough for you to afford another VT for your Riptides.
Right now your list will just Roll over and Die to any good Flyer/FMC list.
Wow, what an uniformed overreaching internet statement.
Well yes, the only way of playing a riptide is moving, shooting, turning back in cover. I hope you understand that, still have to see a ripdite moving close to assault... It has long range so most unit will get trought one or two shooting phase before being able to shoot at it (deployment may change this anyway)
fast moving models? well the crisis are there for that (talking about personal experience at local store)
deep strike? no problem, there are also a bunchload of models shooting at you as you touch the ground (always personal experience)
So, in my experience, a riptide is already a difficult target, three...onestly i don't think i can manage to destroy them, i could try to ignore them, but then i'll have too much firepower coming on my units (here, talking as DA player, i got some trouble playing against tau, maybe i don't know how to play them, but hey! there's a reason if nearly all the players here refuse to play against the triple riptide dude (see my previous post))
So this isn't an "internet statement" it's personal experience...
Anyway, you could be right, maybe it's not a sure victory, it's a 99% victory, and many times that 1% is given by the riptides themselves by failing the nova charge and killing themselves...
Don't know if you're a marine player, if yes, could you please explain your tactics to deal with a riptide, even more then one maybe? (maybe send me a PM, here could be considered an OT)
4500+
2500
1000 (WIP)
2013/11/20 18:22:06
Subject: Re:2000pts. Mechanized or Battlesuit Tau: Final Army
Wow, what an uniformed overreaching internet statement.
Well yes, the only way of playing a riptide is moving, shooting, turning back in cover. I hope you understand that, still have to see a ripdite moving close to assault... It has long range so most unit will get trought one or two shooting phase before being able to shoot at it (deployment may change this anyway)
fast moving models? well the crisis are there for that (talking about personal experience at local store)
deep strike? no problem, there are also a bunchload of models shooting at you as you touch the ground (always personal experience)
So, in my experience, a riptide is already a difficult target, three...onestly i don't think i can manage to destroy them, i could try to ignore them, but then i'll have too much firepower coming on my units (here, talking as DA player, i got some trouble playing against tau, maybe i don't know how to play them, but hey! there's a reason if nearly all the players here refuse to play against the triple riptide dude (see my previous post))
So this isn't an "internet statement" it's personal experience...
Anyway, you could be right, maybe it's not a sure victory, it's a 99% victory, and many times that 1% is given by the riptides themselves by failing the nova charge and killing themselves...
Don't know if you're a marine player, if yes, could you please explain your tactics to deal with a riptide, even more then one maybe? (maybe send me a PM, here could be considered an OT)
I don't want to derail the thread. My point is that Triptide is competitive, but certainly not unbeatable, and not even the nastiest Riptide build out there, that would be the O'VesaStar and it only requires two Riptides to be absolutely brutal. It Triptide was as powerful as you have claimed I wouldn't be worried about my Triptide list going into the Renegade Open GT this weekend. There are many competitive builds that will wreck Riptide Centric lists. I'd be more concerned about Wave Serpents, Eldar Jetbikes, Night Scythes, FMC Daemons, the Grimiore, etc than I would about Riptides.
FYI, the worse loss and near tabling I took came at the hands of a Marines player, running White Scars and Outflanking a ton of Gran in Hammer and Anvil. Took out three FNP Riptides in under two turns with a considerable margin. DA have it worse, but anyway, give my tactica a read and hopefully it should give you a little better insight into the Riptide. The Riptide is a nasty unit, and at the local FLGS level can seem unbeatable, but that is a big fish in a small pond. Against other builds of similar competitiveness it does suffer.
If you are looking for a more casual or semicompetitive game, then by all means throw Triptide out, but if you are looking for a more competitive game, you'll have to bring something on par ie White Scars Grav, Ravenguard Scout, Airforce, DP Assault, etc. And with the right setup, con't be afraid to ignore a Riptide until you can engage it. With cover and model spacing Riptides without considerable support can flounder. If you want, feel free to PM your list and a sample list the Triptide player is fielding and I'll help you develop some strategies or list modifications to help you.
To the OP, play the style you like. Personally, I like running a Battlesuit based list. Your list is ok, and has the framework of a very good list.
Firstly, drop the Counterfire Defense System, you need a VT on your ECPA Riptide, it is hands down better at AA than both of your IA Riptides combined. Your army has absolutely little reliable AA, VT IA Riptides aren't very effective and are better off targetting ground targets. As is any FMC, Dual Helldrake, Flyer based list will destroy you. You can keep the VTs on the IA Riptides, they aren't great, but with the ECPA HBC VT Riptide you will have adequate AA. I'd still recommend swapping one to another HBC, but you can manage as is.
Drop the Shield Drones from your Missile Squads and drop your squads of Marker drones. Add six marker drones to each MIssile Pod Crisis Team. It will give you more Markerlights, fewer KPs, and no wasted firepower thanks to Target Locks on your Commanders and your MPSuits. And it costs less, enough for you to afford another VT for your Riptides.
Right now your list will just Roll over and Die to any good Flyer/FMC list.
I love the Burst Suits, I"m sure you will too.
Hope that helps.
Thanks for the tips man, however a couple answers and questions to your statements:
-I actually like the HBC Riptide better for anti air and may just kit out all x3 of them with VT and Early Warning Override Systems as there are a lot of outflanking and Deep Striking armies in my meta with a few flyer armies. Keep the IA Riptides for Drop Pod Marines and such and the HBC Riptide for anti-air priority.
-Now question, would I have to give all of my Missile Pod suits Target lock so they could shoot a different target then the Marker Lights or would the Commanders Target Lock negate that?
Thanks again for the tips, so far everyone seems to be pointing me towards the pure suit list which is fine by me as its a little cheaper then the Mech list . But please if anyone has anything to say about either list don't be shy, would love to hear your thoughts and opinions!
19th Krieg Siege Army 7500pts.
40k/HH Night Lords 5000pts.
Orks Waaaghmacht Spearhead 2500pts.
2013/11/21 02:47:34
Subject: Re:2000pts. Mechanized or Battlesuit Tau: Final Army
To the OP, play the style you like. Personally, I like running a Battlesuit based list. Your list is ok, and has the framework of a very good list.
Firstly, drop the Counterfire Defense System, you need a VT on your ECPA Riptide, it is hands down better at AA than both of your IA Riptides combined. Your army has absolutely little reliable AA, VT IA Riptides aren't very effective and are better off targetting ground targets. As is any FMC, Dual Helldrake, Flyer based list will destroy you. You can keep the VTs on the IA Riptides, they aren't great, but with the ECPA HBC VT Riptide you will have adequate AA. I'd still recommend swapping one to another HBC, but you can manage as is.
Drop the Shield Drones from your Missile Squads and drop your squads of Marker drones. Add six marker drones to each MIssile Pod Crisis Team. It will give you more Markerlights, fewer KPs, and no wasted firepower thanks to Target Locks on your Commanders and your MPSuits. And it costs less, enough for you to afford another VT for your Riptides.
Right now your list will just Roll over and Die to any good Flyer/FMC list.
I love the Burst Suits, I"m sure you will too.
Hope that helps.
Thanks for the tips man, however a couple answers and questions to your statements:
-I actually like the HBC Riptide better for anti air and may just kit out all x3 of them with VT and Early Warning Override Systems as there are a lot of outflanking and Deep Striking armies in my meta with a few flyer armies. Keep the IA Riptides for Drop Pod Marines and such and the HBC Riptide for anti-air priority.
-Now question, would I have to give all of my Missile Pod suits Target lock so they could shoot a different target then the Marker Lights or would the Commanders Target Lock negate that?
Thanks again for the tips, so far everyone seems to be pointing me towards the pure suit list which is fine by me as its a little cheaper then the Mech list . But please if anyone has anything to say about either list don't be shy, would love to hear your thoughts and opinions!
You need Target Lock on every suit you with to target a different unit. It is not Split Fire, but allows the model to target a different unit. So, with Target Lock on the three Missile Pod Suits and on the Commander the MPs fire at another target while the BS5 Markerlights fire at the original Target.
No problem, I am partial to a Suits based list as being able to do that is the only reason I play Tau, suits and drones, suits and drones. Though, in my competitive list I had to ally in a Tau BuffCommander and made small drones as Count As Firewarriors to not break theme.
You need Target Lock on every suit you with to target a different unit. It is not Split Fire, but allows the model to target a different unit. So, with Target Lock on the three Missile Pod Suits and on the Commander the MPs fire at another target while the BS5 Markerlights fire at the original Target.
No problem, I am partial to a Suits based list as being able to do that is the only reason I play Tau, suits and drones, suits and drones. Though, in my competitive list I had to ally in a Tau BuffCommander and made small drones as Count As Firewarriors to not break theme.
Thanks again for the advice man, I crunched the numbers and came up with the following list, what do you think?
-Commanders attach themselves to the Missile Suit teams and give the Marker Drones BS 5 while bombarding the opponent with missiles, putting these guys into a support role of sorts for the rest of my army as Marker Lights will be lighting up everything that I need to.
-x2 Riptides with two of them having the Ion Accelerator along with a TL Fusion Blaster. I also have x1 Heavy Burst Cannon suit with a TL Smart Missile System that has the "Earth Caste Pilot" which makes this thing brutal. All three have Skyfire and Interceptor to handle any heavy armor or flyers that I may be facing.
-For my Troops I went with multiple Crisis Suit Variants to give me an array of flexible options. The x3 Fusion Blaster & Airbursting Fragmentation team will focus on enemy Armor, MC's or any infantry camping on objectives or behind the Aegis Defence Line. They will be arriving from deepstrike with the plan of making up their points when they come in or even being a distraction for the rest of my army.
-The x2 Suits with Burst Cannons will focus on anti-infantry detail pumping out a ridiculous 36 S5 AP5 shots a turn, these guys were my MVP's in nearly every game I test played as they would almost wipe out anything they shot at in one round.
-The x2 Crisis teams with Missile Pods play a supporting role and help the other two teams in anyway they can. Also all have my Marker Drones to light up my opponent.
19th Krieg Siege Army 7500pts.
40k/HH Night Lords 5000pts.
Orks Waaaghmacht Spearhead 2500pts.
19th Krieg Siege Army 7500pts.
40k/HH Night Lords 5000pts.
Orks Waaaghmacht Spearhead 2500pts.
4500+
2500
1000 (WIP) 
