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Greetings, denizens of the Internet.

I'm looking to start an army of Heresy Salamanders (which would also be 40k legal) but I'm not sure how to get the best out of the Flamers and Meltas they prefer. Any tips?

CC

This is your general list
- Sternguard with heavy flamers + combi-meltas
- Drop Pods for everyone
- Flamers and Meltas for tactical squads
- Vulcan
- LotD (make them a counts-as unit for horus. They mix well with Vulcan)
- Combi weapons (I believe they are master crafted on sergeants)

I don't know much about salamanders or imperial marines in general but IIRC the salamanders chapter tactics give re-rolls to wound on flame and melta weapons?

If I was going to do this army (which I might after my Iron Warriors are done) then I would go with large squads of sternguard with combi flamers and meltas in either rhinos or drop pods.

I would also consider vulkan with hammer terminators as I think he makes all thunder hammers master crafted?

Thankyou, although my main concern is how to make flamers work. I'm not sure how useful they are (at least on offense, D3 automatic hits on overwatch are lovely...)

Getting in range to use flamers is the key, right?

That's why drop pods are win. Rushing up in a rhino is going to be difficult, while a drop pod delivers you generally right where you want to be.

An alternative you can also follow is to go with bikes. I ran the math a few years ago and bikes with flamers + vulcan kill pretty darn well. They come with a built-in delivery system.

Good point...

Just to clarify, is this Primarch Vulkan or Vulkan He'Stan?

Colonel-Commissar wrote:
Good point...

Just to clarify, is this Primarch Vulkan or Vulkan He'Stan?

I'm fairly certain he's talking about the only on in Codex:Space Marines (Vulkan He'Stan) as you didn't say you were making a Horus Heresy army.

Ironclad Dreadnoughts rolling double HF in pods.

Tac squads rolling combi-flamer(or)melta/meltagun/multi-melta in pods.

Sternguard with combis and heavy flamers. Guess what? In pods.

Command Squads with 5x flamers or meltaguns. ALSO IN PODS!

 obsidiankatana wrote:
Ironclad Dreadnoughts rolling double HF in pods.

Tac squads rolling combi-flamer(or)melta/meltagun/multi-melta in pods.

Sternguard with combis and heavy flamers. Guess what? In pods.

Command Squads with 5x flamers or meltaguns. ALSO IN PODS!

This.

The problem with Vulkan He'stan is that he's expensive. If you bring him, you also need to stick him in a unit where he'll be useful. He can either be at the front a unit as a charge deterrent (heavy flamer overwatch and a bunch of S6 AP3 attacks), or the one doing the charging with, say, assault terminators.

Don't forget things like 95 point assault squads in drop pods with 2 flamers, or 160 pt command squads with 5 flamers in drop pods.

Basically with salamanders since their weapons are going to be shorter range drop pods are probably your best bet to alpha strike your opponent. Lots of good options the basic list idea is tons of bodies with lots of flamers/melta/master crafted combi sergs.

To get the most out of them its Vulkan + flamers and melta.

Flamers in droppods = nice
Attack bikes with MM = also nice
LotD with melta = super nice (better then sternguard arguably)
HF ironclad in droppod = nice

Essentially its a lot of face melting.

 hazal wrote:
To get the most out of them its Vulkan + flamers and melta.

Flamers in droppods = nice
Attack bikes with MM = also nice
LotD with melta = super nice (better then sternguard arguably)
HF ironclad in droppod = nice

Essentially its a lot of face melting.

Something to note, if you have the Ironclads, try to assault with them. The are fully capable of taking out Land Raiders, Riptides, and even standing up to Wraithknights due to their AV13.

AV13 means very little when that Wraithknight starts swinging at S10.

Never assault a Wraithknight if you can help it. They have a 3+, kill them through that with guns.

Colonel-Commissar wrote:
start an army of Heresy Salamanders (which would also be 40k legal)

I did say they were Heresy...

But anyway, arguments aside pods does seem to be the way forward. Ten-man special weapons squads ftw...

Heresy and 40k are not compatible though, an army list for one is NOT legal for a game with the other.

I think what people assumed is you meant using heresy models to represent a 40k salamander army (that is legal)


Anyway, meltas, flamers. not very complex-anything that packs them will ruin someone's day.

What I meant was two armies sharing miniatures. But yeah, pack in enough meltas and any tank will just go poof

OK, I've had a go and come up with this......

2000 Pts - Codex: Space Marines Roster

Total Roster Cost: 2000

HQ: Vulkan He'stan (1#, 190 pts)
1 Vulkan He'stan (Warlord)

: Command Squad (6#, 180 pts)
4 Command Squad + Flamer x4 + Apothecary
1 Apothecary
1 Drop Pod + Locator Beacon

Elite: Sternguard Veteran Squad (11#, 320 pts)
9 Sternguard Veteran Squad + Combi-Meltagun x2 + Heavy Flamer x2
1 Veteran Sergeant + Power Sword
1 Drop Pod

Elite: Sternguard Veteran Squad (11#, 330 pts)
9 Sternguard Veteran Squad + Combi-Meltagun x2 + Heavy Flamer x2
1 Veteran Sergeant + Power Fist
1 Drop Pod

Elite: Sternguard Veteran Squad (11#, 330 pts)
9 Sternguard Veteran Squad + Combi-Meltagun x2 + Heavy Flamer x2
1 Veteran Sergeant + Power Fist
1 Drop Pod

Troops: Tactical Squad (11#, 220 pts)
9 Tactical Squad + Meltagun + Multi-melta
1 Veteran Sergeant + Plasma Pistol + Upgrade to Veteran Sergeant
1 Drop Pod

Troops: Tactical Squad (11#, 215 pts)
9 Tactical Squad + Flamer + Multi-melta
1 Veteran Sergeant + Power Sword + Upgrade to Veteran Sergeant
1 Drop Pod

Troops: Tactical Squad (11#, 215 pts)
9 Tactical Squad + Flamer + Multi-melta
1 Veteran Sergeant + Power Sword + Upgrade to Veteran Sergeant
1 Drop Pod

Very nice.

One question, if somewhat unrelated (be gone, foul mods): do Sternguard get custom ammunition with combi-weapons?

As far as I can make out - yes they do :-D

Yes, they do.

I'm in the midst of thinking up a Salamanders list right now.

Currently, it seems like tactical squads should either be something like melta+combi-melta or flamer+combi-plasma/combi-flamer (free Mastercrafted plasma is really good). Even though you can combat squad, generally you're shooting at the same targets, so having a focus in each squad seems good to me. Someone else who plays Salamanders should correct me on this if I'm wrong. In my list, I'm going with the flamer+combiplasma, as I have LotD and Sternguard for melta-weapons.

Even with the Master-crafted stuff, I'd probably not go for MMs on Tactical squads. You're not accurate on the turn you drop in, and because you're going to be very mobile, it just doesn't seem worth it to put points into the multimelta instead of other regular melta stuff.

I'm torn on whether to tell you never to go with CC on your sergeants, but Drop Salamanders is the only time when it's even conceivable. Even then, it's not something I can personally recommend. I'd certainly not go for Power Fists on them, as I feel they're too expensive to put on 1W sergeants.

Good on having an odd number of DPs.

My list, for comparison:

(1500)
Vulkan
Legion of the Damned w/ meltagun, combi-melta,and multimelta.
9 Sternguard w/ 2x HF, 2 combi-meltas (neither on the sergeant, who just master crafts his bolter) in Pod w/ Vulkan (Three rerolling Heavy Flamers in one squad what)
2 x 10 Marines w/ Flamer, Combi-plasma in Pods
Stormtalon w/ Skyhammer
2 x Thunderfire Cannons

Inquisition Detachment:
Coteaz (manning one TFC with Prescience)
Xenos Inquisitor w/ Psyker, 3x Servo-skulls. (Manning the other TFC with Prescience) (Also probably the Warlord)

Has anyone looked at the updated forgeworld characters? The salamanders have some of the best ones, notably pellas mir'shan or however his name is spelt.

I thought you couldn't do all drop pod assault without losing becuase of no models on the table or did they change that.

Here are the sally special characters from the Badab war, they are all beastly.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/B/badabupdate-v2.pdf

Yeah, let's go through them why don't we?

There are three that I can find: Pelleas Mir'san, Bray'arth Ashmantle, and Harath Shen.

Pelleas -- A Duelist HQ. Duelists aren't really powerful this edition on the whole, but he's probably one of the better ones out there. 2+/4++, with an AP2@I5 weapon with 4 attacks base, and WS7. Only S4 on Cinder Edge, so he's not a Beatstick HQ (Vulkan's S6 would be closer, and a Biker CM w/ TH & SE would be best in C:SM), but he'll still deal a lot of damage to less tough foes. The other main advantage that he's got is Calgar's Combat Tactics ability, but only for him and his squad. This is a nice benefit, as Space Marines almost always want to fail their morale checks unless they're on the edge of the board.

Bray'arth Ashmantle, the Iron Dragon -- Really pricey, but makes up for it by being a Dread that will actually survive a lot of things, except for MCs, and even then he's still pretty tough. The combination of the Wrought by Vulkan rule and the Venerable rule means that whatever hits him has a hard time penetrating unless it has an innately high strength, and those things that do penetrate him are unlikely to destroy him with the venerable rule. In addition, Extra armor and IWND help keep him alive and functioning even longer. The biggest threat to him is weight of high-strength fire over a short amount of time, as glancing him to death bypasses both of his defensive special rules. The only other thing that Vulkan didn't account for was grav-guns, as 3 grav-gun 6s will destroy him. Fortunately, if you can get him in combat and keep him there, which he wants to do anyways, he'll do good things. It seems that the Dreadfire Heavy Flamers are TL by Chapter Tactics, but the Burning Wrath isn't, as it's not defined as a flamer despite that being what it actually is (lol FW). Get him into combat, keep him away from grav-guns and massed heavy weapons.

Harath Shen, Master Apothecary -- 4+ FNP on a squad? I'll take it! Huh, it's 'any friendly' unit. That means allied units as well, if they're BB. Give Devastator Centurions 4+++, and make a Deathstar with any variant of Tigurius + Coteaz + other Inquisitors. He's also a cheap 135 points, so if you're going light on HQ choices, he can free up points for the deathstar.

Oh, that's right. Put him in a guard blob with Coteaz and a Rad/Psychotroke Grenade Psyker Xenos Inquisitor, and both Inquisitors try to roll up the 4++ power. then you have 5+/4++/4+++ guardsmen.

Each of them does something quite different than Vulkan He'stan. Vulkan still has the best army-wide buffs, but Pelleas is better against 2+ saves, Bray'arth is just more of a beatstick, and Harath gives more durability to a single squad. Of the three, I'd pick Bray'arth or Shen over Pelleas. Bray'arth can troll an enemy army whose anti-vehicle isn't up to scratch against a Primarch's work. Shen seems like he could enable some quite fun combinations.

I thought you couldn't do all drop pod assault without losing becuase of no models on the table or did they change that.

It's 'game turn,' not 'player turn.' So you can do a full drop pod army, because your guys will come on in the first game turn.

You should bring Bray'arth Ashmantle in a Lucius Pod. Watch your enemies cry as the find out that inside the AV12 Vehicle is an AV13 one immune to all armor penetration boosts. Not to mention the 3 hull points the Pod has, and the 4(!) he has.

Lucarikx

Personally I'm looking at upgrading my list to something like this:

Vulkan He'stan

Dreadnought w/Multi-Melta, Heavy Flamer, Venerable, Drop Pod
Dreadnought w/Multi-Melta, Heavy Flamer, Venerable, Drop Pod
8xSternguard w/2 Heavy Flamers, Drop Pod

10xTactical Marine w/Meltagun, Drop Pod, Sergeant has Combi-Melta
10xTactical Marine w/Meltagun, Drop Pod, Sergeant has Combi-Melta
10xTactical Marine w/Meltagun, Drop Pod, Sergeant has Combi-Melta

5xAssault Marine w/2 Flamers, Replace Jump packs w/Drop pod
Stormtalon w/Skyhammer
Stormtalon w/Skyhammer

Thunderfire Cannon w/Drop Pod
Thunderfire Cannon w/Drop Pod


Thunderfires start on the board, giving me two empty pods to help manipulate what I bring down first turn and punishing opponents who bunch up to defend against the initial drop, Stormtalons are in to help defend against enemy flyers.

Personally I'm not a huge fan of the LotD in drop pod lists (even with Vulkan), as it's a deep striking unit that doesn't help determine how many pods you are bringing in. Flyers are pretty much the only unit I'll consider for DP lists that can't take one as they are required to help neutralize opposing flyers.

OK, here's my second attempt:

2000 Pts - Codex: Space Marines Roster

Total Roster Cost: 2000

HQ: Vulkan He'stan (1#, 190 pts)
1 Vulkan He'stan (Warlord)

: Command Squad (6#, 210 pts)
4 Command Squad + Storm Shield x4 + Flamer x4 + Apothecary
1 Drop Pod

Elite: Sternguard Veteran Squad (11#, 325 pts)
9 Sternguard Veteran Squad + Combi-Meltagun x2 + Heavy Flamer x2
1 Veteran Sergeant + Melta Bombs + Power Sword
1 Drop Pod

Elite: Sternguard Veteran Squad (11#, 330 pts)
9 Sternguard Veteran Squad + Combi-Meltagun x2 + Heavy Flamer x2
1 Veteran Sergeant + Power Fist
1 Drop Pod

Elite: Sternguard Veteran Squad (11#, 330 pts)
9 Sternguard Veteran Squad + Combi-Meltagun x2 + Heavy Flamer x2
1 Veteran Sergeant + Power Fist
1 Drop Pod

Troops: Tactical Squad (11#, 205 pts)
9 Tactical Squad + Meltagun + Multi-melta
1 Sergeant + Combi-Meltagun
1 Drop Pod

Troops: Tactical Squad (11#, 205 pts)
9 Tactical Squad + Meltagun + Multi-melta
1 Sergeant + Combi-Meltagun
1 Drop Pod

Troops: Tactical Squad (11#, 205 pts)
9 Tactical Squad + Meltagun + Multi-melta
1 Sergeant + Combi-Meltagun
1 Drop Pod

Sorry to resurrect a corpse, but I think I heard somewhere that Thunderfire cannons can take a Drop Pod, but they don't have to use it. Or at least that them having one gives Pod Salamanders an advantage in deployment.

Colonel-Commissar wrote:
Sorry to resurrect a corpse, but I think I heard somewhere that Thunderfire cannons can take a Drop Pod, but they don't have to use it.

On a serious note, that's a good idea if anyone missed it earlier.