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Have been in the hobby since high school and have always wanted to have a game store. I was thinking about opening a small shop here in my local area where there isn't a shop for miles. Before I call GW and go through all that, I figure posting questions here would be easier. Can anyone that is a independent retailer answer a few questions?

1. Markup on GW plastic/finecast/paint? I think the pricing is different but don't know for sure
2. Does GW retailer account include discounts on Black Library? Books, audios, Limited Edition stuff
3. Can independent retailers carry FW? I'm sure the answer to this is no.
4. What about limited edition stuff that GW offers?
5. Do they make you buy a minimum order each time?
6. How often do you have to place orders?

Just trying to get an idea of what I am getting into before I take the next step.

Thanks for your time.

Read this

http://www.rpg.net/columns/list-column.phtml?colname=businessofgamingretail

And this blog also gives alot of perceptive
http://www.rpg.net/columns/list-column.phtml?colname=counter

Opening a retail business is an extremely risky proposition. Lockark's links are very valuable.

My answers below are not 100% (I'm not a retailer) but from when I was friends with one a few years ago.

kevyluv wrote:

1. Markup on GW plastic/finecast/paint? I think the pricing is different but don't know for sure

I thinkyou get to buy at about 50% off MSRP. I do remember my FLGS complaining that they would sometimes ship you what they wanted, so you might get a bunch of blisters and find they're sending you Skaven despite it being a shop where the only WHFB players are Brettonian and Dwarves.

kevyluv wrote:

2. Does GW retailer account include discounts on Black Library? Books, audios, Limited Edition stuff

Not sure. From what I understand, in general, you sign up with GW and get a sales rep who covers your region. That rep can be good or bad... A good one will work with you, help you get copies of the rarer stuff, event support (even if it's stuff like posters), free sales stuff like paint racks and signage, etc. A bad one will isnist you take a dozen copies of Dread Fleet or the starter no one wants if you want even a chance to get the new hot thing everyone wants.

kevyluv wrote:

3. Can independent retailers carry FW? I'm sure the answer to this is no.

Yes. But you have to buy at full price, so in practice 'No'. I've seen Forge World stuff at the local FLGS, but no idea how they got it, and it was always irregular and random as far as what they had. It wouldn't surprise me if they were reselling purchases people regretted.

kevyluv wrote:

4. What about limited edition stuff that GW offers?

See above. Again, a good sales rep treats you well and gives you honest numbers for limited availability stuff so you can cover pre-orders from your customers. A bad one writes an air-note with an imaginary pencil when you say you need a dozen copies of the 9th edition starter sets that everyone wants and ships you leftover Dread Fleet boxes with dead mice in them.

kevyluv wrote:

5. Do they make you buy a minimum order each time?

Many game companies enforce a minimum order, at least to qualify for free/reduced shipping.

kevyluv wrote:

6. How often do you have to place orders?

I know my old FLGS placed an order every week, but they may have skipped occasionally.

From reading some of the articles online, running a game store is a huge responsibility and risk. You've got to find space, set it up, order tens of thousands of dollars of stock, and get people in. It's pretty unlikely to beat the online resellers on price, because they don't have to pay for a storefront, staff to cover store hours, or worry about theft as much.

Personally, I think opening a 'pure' game store is a really risky idea right now. Make sure your business plan has some sort of side business to keep people interested and give them a reason to use your store over online sources. What this is is unknown, though.

The model store down the road tried getting GW goods, BUT they have harsh limits on how much you must get every month, a huge starting fee that keeps growing, and very little markup. THEN you also have to compete with the internet. They also screw up orders suspiciously when awesome stuff comes out so you end up selling stuff later than GW does.

Places like toyworld also have these problems as i know a guy who manages all the GW goods at our local store.

GW makes a hard endevour like this even harder so my advice, ditch GW and try maximise on train sets and historicals along with non GW gaming systems but let GW play in the store.

Good luck, i have plans with a friend to do the same but there are lots of off putting factors involved. Like the internet and GW being a pain.

Actually the "entry level" for a GW rack has evidently gone down. My local shop was 99.999% Magic/Yugioh/Cardfight Vanguard but recently he spoke to a GW rep and started an account. He probably doesn't make a massive amount per box, but he has GW shelves etc.

They also gave him some terrain as a "starter".

I see but could be country difference. According to the guy down the road it would be near impossible for him to make profit on GW stuff as hed have to sell so so much of it.

kevyluv wrote:
Have been in the hobby since high school and have always wanted to have a game store. I was thinking about opening a small shop here in my local area where there isn't a shop for miles. Before I call GW and go through all that, I figure posting questions here would be easier. Can anyone that is a independent retailer answer a few questions?

1. Markup on GW plastic/finecast/paint? I think the pricing is different but don't know for sure
2. Does GW retailer account include discounts on Black Library? Books, audios, Limited Edition stuff
3. Can independent retailers carry FW? I'm sure the answer to this is no.
4. What about limited edition stuff that GW offers?
5. Do they make you buy a minimum order each time?
6. How often do you have to place orders?

Just trying to get an idea of what I am getting into before I take the next step.

Thanks for your time.

1. 45% discount from Trade Sales.
2. Some. If it isn't in stock at Trade, you can get it from mailorder for 35% off. Some limited items you can only pay full price for.
3. GW does not sell FW. Only FW sells FW. Meaning you can order it like anyone else, and pay full price for it.
4. Limited edition has no rules, it always depends on the print run and the product. Each sales rep has so many to hand out to his accounts.
5. It depends on what agreement you have with GW. If you agree to carry certain lines of stock, there is a very small minimum and free shipping. If you just call them up randomly now and then and have no stockist agreement, then it's a 500.00 minimum and you pay shipping. However, it is pretty silly to not be a GW stockist if you are going to carry the line. Quite a lot of benefits
6. Well, if you go 90 days and no orders, you're account might be put on hold. Other than that, never heard of having to place orders.

"The next step" is a boatload of research into what it takes to run a game store. A business plan. Initial funding, and quite a lot more. I recommend getting on the Games Resoruces Forum, part of the GAMA website.

^^^ That is all exactly right.

I would also add that you shouldn't be thinking about opening a store that only carries GW stuff (or even primarily focuses on it). Diversity is one of the keys to a successful game store. Make sure that everybody that walks in the door has the potential to find something that they're going to want to take home with them. The only people who can survive with a GW focused store is GW.

 mikhaila wrote:

kevyluv wrote:
Have been in the hobby since high school and have always wanted to have a game store. I was thinking about opening a small shop here in my local area where there isn't a shop for miles. Before I call GW and go through all that, I figure posting questions here would be easier. Can anyone that is a independent retailer answer a few questions?

1. Markup on GW plastic/finecast/paint? I think the pricing is different but don't know for sure
2. Does GW retailer account include discounts on Black Library? Books, audios, Limited Edition stuff
3. Can independent retailers carry FW? I'm sure the answer to this is no.
4. What about limited edition stuff that GW offers?
5. Do they make you buy a minimum order each time?
6. How often do you have to place orders?

Just trying to get an idea of what I am getting into before I take the next step.

Thanks for your time.

1. 45% discount from Trade Sales.
2. Some. If it isn't in stock at Trade, you can get it from mailorder for 35% off. Some limited items you can only pay full price for.
3. GW does not sell FW. Only FW sells FW. Meaning you can order it like anyone else, and pay full price for it.
4. Limited edition has no rules, it always depends on the print run and the product. Each sales rep has so many to hand out to his accounts.
5. It depends on what agreement you have with GW. If you agree to carry certain lines of stock, there is a very small minimum and free shipping. If you just call them up randomly now and then and have no stockist agreement, then it's a 500.00 minimum and you pay shipping. However, it is pretty silly to not be a GW stockist if you are going to carry the line. Quite a lot of benefits
6. Well, if you go 90 days and no orders, you're account might be put on hold. Other than that, never heard of having to place orders.

"The next step" is a boatload of research into what it takes to run a game store. A business plan. Initial funding, and quite a lot more. I recommend getting on the Games Resoruces Forum, part of the GAMA website.

I've run a business before, but not a gaming one. Due to recent changes in the personal circumstances of myself and a couple of my friends, plus the discovery of a fairly essential piece of info with regards to what led to the demise of the previous (and only) FLGS a few years back, I am, for the first time, more than casually considering the prospect of opening one.

That is really useful factual info Mikhaila, but I'd be interested to hear more about what you think of dealing with them in terms of your opinion. I believe I've read posts either by, or referring to, you before in the context of how disillusioned you've become with them in recent times, is that fair, and if so could you expand a bit?

Essentially, tell us what you really think!

Saying what I really think would unleash a torrent of angry screams that would bring a tear to the eye of Khorne.

A toned down version.....

I think GW used to be one of the most awesome companies to work with, sold amazing models worth the money, and supported retailers more than any other company.

I'm sort of disgruntled because:
-Of the couple of hundred people I knew at GW, only a couple remain.
-Games Day is...lets say "lacking", and be polite. I used to take down 20ft displays with 1500 models and run events. Those days are gone.
-GW does not run any events besides "games day".
-I carry all GW items i can stock. That wall has shrunk by 25 feet in the last few years, as they offer less and less items, and move blisters, finecast, and even plastic model kits to mail order.
-So many kits are missing from my walls, that i can't sell someone an Army. I can only get Brettonian knights. Dwarfs are limited to miners, cannon, and warriors. Other missing kits include High Elf archers, minotaurs, and dire wolves. All blisters have pretty much gone away, so forget about special characters, and generals. Hard to sell a customer on a game when i don't have all the pieces he wants to play with.
-I come to Dakka for GW news. They don't tell me about new releases until the week before. No preview copies, no hints, no way to get pre-orders or excite the customers.
-I cannot use the marketing tools and techniques I learned from GW, because of GW's current disinformation policies.
-Prices are accelerating so fast that it is getting harder and harder to sell their games and models.
-Rules are published online. I don't even know what some of the 40k rules are, since I don't have those rulebooks.
-Specialist Games have been squatted.

I love GW games. I own dozens of armies and thousands of models. I'm disappointed that the company has fallen so far.

And mostly I'm angry because I don't know why. Nothing makes sense from a business standpoint. They are driving their business lower and lower. I can't believe that the people making the decisions care about GW as a company existing in the future.

I am old and bitter and one day I will find those responsible for ruining the company I loved and put a Choppa between their eyes.

 mikhaila wrote:
All blisters have pretty much gone away, so forget about special characters, and generals. Hard to sell a customer on a game when i don't have all the pieces he wants to play with.

This is something that has stuck with me recently... With the release of the latest SM codex, I wanted to grab Lysander for the start of an Imperial/Crimson Fist army. It took me a month and a half to get it from a local store, in that time I had changed what I wanted to do with my SM army... So now I have a Lysander model I'm not sure I will ever use... If it was on the shelf, I would have bought it day one, had it while I was still learning the SM codex...

*sigh* tis a shame really...

 mikhaila wrote:
Saying what I really think would unleash a torrent of angry screams that would bring a tear to the eye of Khorne.

A toned down version.....

I think GW used to be one of the most awesome companies to work with, sold amazing models worth the money, and supported retailers more than any other company.

I'm sort of disgruntled because:
-Of the couple of hundred people I knew at GW, only a couple remain.
-Games Day is...lets say "lacking", and be polite. I used to take down 20ft displays with 1500 models and run events. Those days are gone.
-GW does not run any events besides "games day".
-I carry all GW items i can stock. That wall has shrunk by 25 feet in the last few years, as they offer less and less items, and move blisters, finecast, and even plastic model kits to mail order.
-So many kits are missing from my walls, that i can't sell someone an Army. I can only get Brettonian knights. Dwarfs are limited to miners, cannon, and warriors. Other missing kits include High Elf archers, minotaurs, and dire wolves. All blisters have pretty much gone away, so forget about special characters, and generals. Hard to sell a customer on a game when i don't have all the pieces he wants to play with.
-I come to Dakka for GW news. They don't tell me about new releases until the week before. No preview copies, no hints, no way to get pre-orders or excite the customers.
-I cannot use the marketing tools and techniques I learned from GW, because of GW's current disinformation policies.
-Prices are accelerating so fast that it is getting harder and harder to sell their games and models.
-Rules are published online. I don't even know what some of the 40k rules are, since I don't have those rulebooks.
-Specialist Games have been squatted.

I love GW games. I own dozens of armies and thousands of models. I'm disappointed that the company has fallen so far.

And mostly I'm angry because I don't know why. Nothing makes sense from a business standpoint. They are driving their business lower and lower. I can't believe that the people making the decisions care about GW as a company existing in the future.

I am old and bitter and one day I will find those responsible for ruining the company I loved and put a Choppa between their eyes.

Great, thanks,

I'd welcome a PM if you wanted to try and break the language filter without fear of setting off a proverbial dirty bomb in the thread.

 mikhaila wrote:

-I come to Dakka for GW news. They don't tell me about new releases until the week before. No preview copies, no hints, no way to get pre-orders or excite the customers.
-I cannot use the marketing tools and techniques I learned from GW, because of GW's current disinformation policies.

As a retailer about to celebrate his 13th year in business (carrying GW the whole time) I can say that the above things are the two things that bother me the most. This is particularly because I spent almost a decade doing marketing and public relations and I cannot for the life of me understand why GW thinks that their current policies with regards to the dissemination of information is a good idea for anybody.

When I first moved to the States I had a long conversation with Mike (mikhaila) at the first Dakkacon meet up at his great store in PA. I had a very jaundiced view of GW at that time, from what I had seen of the UK practices of the company.

He talked with incredible enthusiasm for the US business, the support he received from the company, the community he belonged to and the great business relationship he had as an independent, with GW North America.

He forced me to revise my own opinion on the company on many issues (and getting me to change my mind is a fairly herculean task) and I also came to greatly respect his polite and evidence-based answers on this forum, countering the waves of teeth gnashing that would erupt over GW's actions, with solid business sense and seeing the wider picture.

Seeing his commentaries on the forum since has been to watch a previously vehement standard bearer for the company (and this is a successful independent retailer and smart bloke, not a 'redshirt') lose his faith in the company and become increasingly angry and disgruntled with his treatment and boggled at the direction of the company in it's sales and promotions (or lack thereof). The continued retreat of the company, the continuing reinforcement of an echochamber of corporate mantra and self praise cannot be healthy. It's sad to see and I wish GW would stop what looks like a determined march towards isolation and a mail order only exclusivity. These aren't Faberge eggs, they are toy soldiers...


My own personal thoughts tie to what we talked about that day, with regard my own dislike of the company's British practices and hostile attitude towards indy retailers. It ties to what he says about not knowing anyone at GW any more. It was Kirby's 'coming to America' tour of duty that saw the company shift direction over here and the beheadings of many of the previously well established 'names' in the business, especially the familiar faces from event organizing and trade.

 mikhaila wrote:

-I carry all GW items i can stock. That wall has shrunk by 25 feet in the last few years, as they offer less and less items, and move blisters, finecast, and even plastic model kits to mail order.

I would guess that Mike does not waste any retail space with a blank surface, the wall has not shrunk, the wall is still the same size, it's just now carrying an extra 25ft of product that isn't made by GW...

Yes, that space has been filled with Bolt Action, Gale Force 9 Scenery, and bitz, and a life sized genestealer clawing its way through the wall.

And while GW shrank, the move to the bigger store let us double the space we gave to Warmachine, Malifaux, and Flames of War. We brought in Infinity, hugely expanded reaper, carry a lot more historical figures, and a half dozen other miniature games.

And GW keeps shrinking as part of the store, and my sales of GW go down because I have less to sell, and people are are rushing to pick up new games.

Because somehow GW sees this as a good thing?

Like I say in all these threads.... make a business plan first!

 Easy E wrote:
Like I say in all these threads.... make a business plan first!

This 100%. In the blog i linked they mention the choice of haveing a gameing area is a huge choice for example! Just because its free for customers to use doesn't mean it free for you. Higher rent and the cost of maintaining tables and terrian for it. Thats not even mentioning paying a employee to keep it tidy of garbage and mess.

Will it be better to get a smaller store and save the money or even use the money instead to advertise. You are a bussiness 1st after all, not a gameing club.

You need to be 100% sure you can use that area to bring in paying customers. Not just people who buy a bag of chips and pop once aweek when they come in to play a game. Because that means you are acully loseing money haveing the area. You need to use the area.

 Lockark wrote:


You need to be 100% sure you can use that area to bring in paying customers. Not just people who buy a bag of chips and pop once aweek when they come in to play a game. Because that means you are acully loseing money haveing the area. You need to use the area.

I would say that just making sure that you do one good Magic event a week (FNM is a good one) will make sure that the space pays for itself.

 Dullspork wrote:

 Lockark wrote:


You need to be 100% sure you can use that area to bring in paying customers. Not just people who buy a bag of chips and pop once aweek when they come in to play a game. Because that means you are acully loseing money haveing the area. You need to use the area.

I would say that just making sure that you do one good Magic event a week (FNM is a good one) will make sure that the space pays for itself.

Actully that might make you break even, not nessarily make money. Alot of factors. If you only have a large group in your store playing games and spending money only once a week, that's actully not that great.

Your goal is to have it populated with paying customers as often as possible.

OP, if you get any advice from Mikhaila, follow it to the letter. He is one of, if not the most, successful game store owners to post on here. His advice to you will be worth its weight in gold. If you listen to him and your location is appropriate (don't open a game store in the middle of a cornfield with nobody around for 20 miles), you should do fine to start out. But you'll have to earn yourself a customer base. And that's something you need to figure out how you want to proceed-what is your draw going to be to get loyal customers who WANT to play and buy there. Loyalty program? I know a store that sends out monthly 25% off coupons to customers and does a $10 gift card for each $100 you spend (outside of those coupons). I know another that randomly gives percentages off your purchase, no matter how much you buy. Another does 20% off GW from the outset, and drops another 10% if you buy $100, 20% if you buy $200+. Also, here's a list of stuff that's quite popular and should grace your shelves in addition to Warhammer:

Magic. It's the bread and butter of game stores. I dislike it these days, but people eat it up.
X-Wing. It's flown up the ranks of miniatures gaming. You'd be making a huge mistake to ignore it.
Steve Jackson's Munchkin. It's a classic, and it's well loved.
Settlers of Catan. The poster child of Eurogames. Grab it.
Legendary. The love child of super heroes and deckbuilders.
D&D and Reaper Bones. D&D players will love the cheap cost and good quality of Bones. 2 of each should be fine.
Soda and Candy Bars. You can get bulk packs of both for about $0.30 per can/bar and sell for $1. That's pretty much pure profit.
Family style games. Things like Farkle, Bananagrams, Pass the Pigs, etc-these are games that nongamers can enjoy and can be great introductory games for people who are on the fence. And they're relatively cheap-people are willing to take chances on a $10-15 game for the family.
Netrunner. Very popular LCG at the moment.
Party games like Cards Against Humanity, Werewolf, Aye Dark Overlord, etc. Getting a big group of people together in a single game laughing, swearing and having a ridiculous time does wonders to promote your store: "hey, we played **** last night and it was a blast! We're thinking about playing Monday as well, you HAVE to come down and join us" is a powerful motivator. Hopefully this helps get some ideas out there. Don't limit yourself to just GW, or you'll be in heaps of trouble. You need choices and you need items that draw people in.

Note that I haven't put my favorite game company on here anywhere, which is Mantic, because they're still currently a "niche" company. I do think that snagging a starter set of Kings of War and Dreadball (and in a couple weeks Deadzone!!) for store copies to get people to try it out would be a good idea, but it doesn't have a huge name to draw a crowd. Yet. I would recommend one store copy though. A copy of the 2 player starter for Warmachine/Hordes would be an excellent idea as well, and if Infinity, Malifaux and similar games have a 2-person starter, you can't go wrong with a store copy. Get people to try them and if they like it, they'll buy it. If they hate it, you only have the store copy.

 Lockark wrote:

Your goal is to have it populated with paying customers as often as possible.

You're sort of reading into what I wrote as if I said "do this one thing and then stop." That's not what I said. I'm pointing out that Magic is a good way to make sure that your gaming space will pay for itself. For better or worse, supporting Magic: The Gathering is the best way for a game store owner to make sure that the bills get paid so that he or she can support all of the other cool games that you might want to carry. It takes up little product space, it has a good markup, and generates a lot of revenue. Even the best miniature games require a much bigger investment in time, space and money and don't give you the same return. Before you think I'm saying that this means that I don't think that they should be supported, that's not what I'm saying. I just want to point out where the path of least resistance is when it comes to paying the bills.

We started our first store 13 years ago. Now we have two. We started with a focus on Miniature Games, Magic, and RPGs. We have a LOT more diversity now but miniature games are a smaller piece of the overall pie and Magic has become a much larger one.