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Do they count as part if the unit for special rules. For instance Hunters From Hyperspace.

I'm presuming not.

No, dedicated transports are a separate unit.

Transports only use the special rule of the unit when it confers it upon them. For example, the Scouts USR allows the dedicated transport to also scout as long as the unit is inside the vehicle.

Kholzerino wrote:
Do they count as part if the unit for special rules. For instance Hunters From Hyperspace.

I'm presuming not.

"A unit can embark onto a vehicle by moving each model to within 2" of its Access Points in the Movement phase ... The whole unit must be able to embark - if some models are out of range, the entire unit must stay outside." (78)

Does the DT have to embark on itself with the rest of the unit?

If not then it it not a part of the unit that is embarked.

As much as I love that example for the image of a transport sucking itself into itself, I still find it easier to point out the obvious: They have two different unit entries in the army list section of the codex.

If the dedicated transport was meant to be a part of the unit for all rule purposes it would instead be included within the unit entry being discussed. We would of seen a line that states 'may include a {name of Transport} .... X points.' This is how it is written for every other entry allowing you to add additional models, even adding vehicle models to the non-vehicle squad such as the case of the Dark Angels. For those whom are curious, the Dark Angel bike section allows you to include a Land Speeder, the closest thing I have seen to allowing a non-vehicle unit to include a vehicle model. Luckily that codex has specific instructions you how to deal with the rule conflicts this would create, because the rules where not designed to deal with mixed units... let alone non-vehicle and vehicle models that use widely different rules.

I will say this though, it is annoying that the rules for Dedicated Transport are broken up over multiple pages... at least four by the index.

The only thing these four pages repeat over and over is 'does not take a force slot' and 'only the purchasing unit can embark inside during deployment.' It would be nice if it highlighted the fact that purchasing a Dedicated Transport for a unit doesn't make it part of the unit, simply because we have seen this question enough times that it is clear many people see 'may take' as 'include in the unit.' I guess they assumed that people wouldn't come to that mistaken conclusion because it would make a great deal of the game go wonky. Not just the above mentioned paradox of existing inside of itself but all sorts of other breaks, because as I mentioned the rules where not designed to deal with a unit consisting of both vehicles and non-vehicle models.

They are just too different to each other to be able to interact without specific instructions telling us which rules to use in which situations.

JinxDragon wrote:
As much as I love that example for the image of a transport sucking itself into itself, I still find it easier to point out the obvious: They have two different unit entries in the army list section of the codex.

Except some units that "have two different unit entries in the army list section of the codex." can be a single unit (Like some IG blobs).

So that is not a great example.

I disagree,

If you look at the section stating how the army list section works, found in every codex, you will find a sentence like this one: Each entry in the army list represents a different unit. I know it is there for the Tau one I have open beside me, page 94, as I am quoting it straight from there. A quick look through the imperial guard explanation of the same thing has the very same line, page 89. So even for the army which you quoted as being evidence that my statement of 'different entry, different unit' is incorrect. Therefore, I think it is correct to state each entry in the codex is a separate unit because the codex tells us that each entry is it's own unit.

So why do some units get to ignore this line, such as Imperial Guard blobs?

They don't ignore it at all! In these cases we are looking at a specific rule giving us permission to join these units together either permanently or for only certain situations such as reserve rolls after the fact. Well, in the case of the Imperial Guard a restriction forcing us to combine certain units into a single 'platoon.' Even without pointing out that the exceptions do not disprove the rule, the fact it would otherwise be illegal to join these units together if it wasn't for a specific rule speaks volumes for it. As specific rules already have permission to change the normal order of events, that is how they work, so I don't see where you are going by pointing out that some units have a specific rule stating they can/must be be treated as a single unit after purchase.

The Dedicated Transports being discussed as the core of this topic clearly do not fall under these specific exceptions.

JinxDragon wrote:
I disagree,

Then you need to reread the IG codex.

Some IG units have a separate entry yet can be one unit, your example is flawed.

I recommend you go back and re-read the pages I quote, including the one direct from the Imperial Guard Codex. In fact, seeing this is a copy and paste job, it is likely a sentence found in all 'army list explained' sections of every codex. Seeing as I am quoting a direct rule as my 'example' I find it very hard for you to continue to state that it is flawed. Dedicated Transports are separate units unless some specific rule grants you permission to treat them as part of, or join them to, another unit.

I wouldn't even say the examples you point to are evidence this rule doesn't exist are accurate. While it could simply be a case of poor formatting on Game Workshop's part, as I mentioned it is a cut and paste job so it is likely someone forgot about it when putting this codex together, I don't think so. Even the ones you might be trying to reference to, such as Straken if I remember right, can still be considered separate units without anything breaking. They are a unit that can only be purchased if you obey a specific rule requiring them to be part of another unit.

Almost as if a specific rule overwriting the norm....