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Hey All,

So there have been quite a few supplements now, some were a surprise (Inquisition), some had been expected (Farsight Enclaves) and some seem to be rather... pointless (Sentinels of Terra). I wanted to start this thread because I'm interested to see what everyone else thinks of the supplements as a whole, and maybe our feelings will change as they continue to be released, but as of now... my stance is..

Disappointment

I had a hope that each supplement would be some sort of miniature Codex specific to a certain chapter / craftworld / hive fleet / Chaos Legion / etc.. So far all I have seen are minor updates to existing units and rules. Maybe I had expected more, or gotten my own hopes up in an effort to think that GW was really going to try and make things more diverse, but all we've gotten is $30 fluff novels that end up just crapping on themselves with the rules.

Farsight enclaves are battle brothers to Tau.... Shadowsun is on a mission to kill Farsight, but they can be in the same army. I will say that as of now, the Farsight Enclaves is the only 'decent' supplement for rules and additional options (Feel free to disagree here, opinions are opinions.)

Then there is the obvious allying complications caused by the Inquisition book (Another HUGE let-down. Thanks for the warlord table... Other then that next time let me know when another Codex I own has what I need).

Iyanden and Black Legion.... does anyone see what those added for us? Just an easy way to make a dollar off of people who have high hopes that they'll finally get what they've been asking for.

Anyway, like I said, I've just been disappointed with the output so far, maybe it'll change, but as of right now, I think the supplement system is a failing us.

Supplements didn't burst my bubble because I didn't set myself up with any expectations before hand. I find people who set their bars too high are the ones who are usually upset when things don't meet the expectations they've created.

And the Inquisition is a "Codex" not a "Codex Supplement", those are different products (I'd have to say that it's actually best described as a "mini-dex" as the rumors we had last year were hinting at coming).

Supplements are a great source of lore for the setting, they have themed missions to allow you to play important events in that faction's history and contain rules to make your army just that much more tied into the setting.

I rather like them even if they aren't a must have for everyone, they are great for the people they're targeted at and that's fine. Not every product has to be aimed at every single person who plays the game after all.

Supplements are silly in some ways. They don't really meet the requirements of the target audience.

It would be better if either they were codices in their own right. Alternatively the inclusions in the supplement should have been in the codex to begin with.

They don't really serve much purpose. The inquisition supplement is the best in the sense that it is a minor force that can be added to an army and breaks the rules just enough that it works as a supplement. The only downside is the copy paste approach however i have a feeling the grey knights might lose their inquisitors in the future.

All others are just a bit pointless in my opinion. Farsight enclaves should just have been in the main codex IMHO.

I expected the codex supplements to do what IA12 did to necrons. Add a new unit or two, give an army wide rule or two, give a unique IC or two, and restrict a unit or two, and thats about it. They do even less than that. Therefore, yes, i am disappointed.

Well i haven't really been disappointed by the new supplements since none of them are affiliated with my crons, deldar, or nids. But I am kind of confused at some of the choices since they seem fairly redundant (Black Legion? That's like making a smurf supplement for marines, or a leviathan supplement for nids, sure they added a few new fluffy relics and psy power but that seems kind of pointless since the CSM dex pretty much IS Black Legion.)

I was kind of intrigued by the inquisition dex but now it just seems kind of redundant with the way the rules are (2 Coteazs brofisting with 3 other Inqs all in their own land raiders is silly)

The Farsight Enclave and Iyanden supplements are the only ones I have actually considered useful and interesting to changing how you play (crisis suit troops, 5 spiritseers, etc.)

I am very happy with the supplements I can use . cheap divination is the thing I needed and now I can get it without buying troops .I can also get cheap servo skulls . IMO they are a wonderful idea .

I've only liked the farsight supplement so far (and not just because I play FE Tau).

The farsight supplement completely changed the way that a tau army can be played - no other supplement has done this so far.

 A GumyBear wrote:
Well i haven't really been disappointed by the new supplements since none of them are affiliated with my crons, deldar, or nids. But I am kind of confused at some of the choices since they seem fairly redundant (Black Legion? That's like making a smurf supplement for marines, or a leviathan supplement for nids, sure they added a few new fluffy relics and psy power but that seems kind of pointless since the CSM dex pretty much IS Black Legion.)

I'm willing to bet we'll see an Ultramarines supplement eventually. The lore and faction specific missions are reason enough as is. And it'd be a good way to give us Tyrannic War Vets.

As for the BL, I'm thinking that was done to try and give Chaos Undivided some love because it's the easiest of the various factions. We still have room for much more later for other warbands.

 A GumyBear wrote:
I was kind of intrigued by the inquisition dex but now it just seems kind of redundant with the way the rules are (2 Coteazs brofisting with 3 other Inqs all in their own land raiders is silly)

I really can't see that as legal, it's like taking both Tychos. Sure they have different rules, but their still both Tycho.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 A GumyBear wrote:
Well i haven't really been disappointed by the new supplements since none of them are affiliated with my crons, deldar, or nids. But I am kind of confused at some of the choices since they seem fairly redundant (Black Legion? That's like making a smurf supplement for marines, or a leviathan supplement for nids, sure they added a few new fluffy relics and psy power but that seems kind of pointless since the CSM dex pretty much IS Black Legion.)

I'm willing to bet we'll see an Ultramarines supplement eventually. The lore and faction specific missions are reason enough as is. And it'd be a good way to give us Tyrannic War Vets.

As for the BL, I'm thinking that was done to try and give Chaos Undivided some love because it's the easiest of the various factions. We still have room for much more later for other warbands.

 A GumyBear wrote:
I was kind of intrigued by the inquisition dex but now it just seems kind of redundant with the way the rules are (2 Coteazs brofisting with 3 other Inqs all in their own land raiders is silly)

I really can't see that as legal, it's like taking both Tychos. Sure they have different rules, but their still both Tycho.

The reason that you can take 2 Coteaz is that they are from different books (GK and INQ) and have different rules (mainly just the henchmen being troops) so you can create some really silly things with it. I wish i could take 3 Coteazs just for the hilarity of having 3 Coteazs

Both Tycho's have different rules too, but you can't have both of them in a list, hence why he was my example. Different rules or not he's clearly the same character and there should only be one of him in a list.

I've been disappointed for sure. I was hoping that they would have as much difference as the black templar codex did with the space marine one

I wanted word bearers to summon daemons, world eaters to roll for butchers needles, instead we got the one legion that least needed a supplement

I'm mostly disappointed at how poor the Black Legion Supplement is.

The rules of it even contradict the fluff! At least the others try and mimic their fluff.

Not to mention that Poor Terminator Squad, +1WS/BS for THAT MUCH? Do it like Grimgor and make it automatically buff one terminator unit, but Abbadon HAS to join it, if he does not at the start, it's a normal unit.

I've only skimmed through most of them (only really played against Iyanden), but I like them so far. Black Legion has been the only disappointment, but the excellent fluff makes up for the unispired rules.

I will say I liked the Iyanden one, the Farsight has been medicore, but usable, the Black Legion has been horrible. And the Sentinels have been okayish.

Loved the Farsight one, interesting rules and special issue systems, as well as (finally) more background on Farsight.

My 'bubble' burst on this one years ago. We went down the supplement road in 3rd edition. It sucked. Why GW thought it was a good idea to go back down that road is beyond me.

 zephoid wrote:
I expected the codex supplements to do what IA12 did to necrons. Add a new unit or two, give an army wide rule or two, give a unique IC or two, and restrict a unit or two, and thats about it. They do even less than that. Therefore, yes, i am disappointed.

This pretty much sums up exactly how i feel about the supplements. That being said, i enjoyed reading the fluff from the farsight Enclaves supp. Crisis as troops should have ALWAYS been an option in my opinion, i'd even be ok with being forced to take Farsight to unlock it( i really hate having SCs in my army). Really though i'm hoping for shadowsuns supp so i can get stealths as troops, i'd have a lot of fun with that.

I wasn't expecting much from the supplements just extending on the fluff and adding a different way to play an army like they did with the farsight enclaves which I love, but aren't gw releasing supplements with the least amount of changes to the most.

P.S I am waiting for the one(s) that extend upon the aliens of the tau empire.

Black legion really is a pimp my warlord suppliment...those relics are noice.

The rest seem to work just fine. Inquisition is by far the best so far.

I'm dissapointed. The price points are insane too, especially farsight enclave.

I think GW is setting a pretty bad precedent in terms of consumer expectation, right now just saying the world supplement is indicative of a "no new model" realease. It seems more like a cynical ploy to sell off remaining finecaste stock.

doesn't the elder one (cant spell leander properly atm) let you take worlocks as an upgrade for wraith guard/blade?

 the shrouded lord wrote:
doesn't the elder one (cant spell leander properly atm) let you take worlocks as an upgrade for wraith guard/blade?

Iyander, also it doesn't but instead allows for 0-5 spirit seers, which is better.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 the shrouded lord wrote:
doesn't the elder one (cant spell leander properly atm) let you take worlocks as an upgrade for wraith guard/blade?

Iyander, also it doesn't but instead allows for 0-5 spirit seers, which is better.

oh, ok then. I must be thinking DOW 2. lol.

Well as a Chaos Space Marine player I'm looking at the Black Legion supplement and afterwards looking at the Clan Raukaan supplement... Well I don't have the words... I would REALLY be interested in knowing GWs reason and logic when they create rules, because I can't find any logic right now no matter what the perspective is.

Perspectives/arguments:

Space Marines must have more - Well if you just made rules for the Chaos Legions, Space Marines would still have far more rules as you can make rules for each of their Chapters... and their companies if you want to.

We must earn money - This must be GW's single point of priority. It's just that their rules also sell their models; I know this because if rules/codices are too weak or boring I will not buy the models using those rules and codices and I can't imagine I'm the only one.
If more differentiated rules were made for Chaos Space Marine codex supplements then I would buy them and buy models - if they continue to produce Chaos codices and supplements like the ones we have now, then I'll be continuing not to buy anything.
So I really can't find their incentives of producing such bad products.

Actually I do have two guesses:

They've analysed the Chaos Space Marine player segment and have come to the conclusion that they don't buy much no matter what and there are no newcomers to the segment, so they intentionally create bad rules and codices so these players will buy other armies (I see this as very unlikely)

GW are incompetent when it comes to making rules for Chaos Space Marines. (With now two bad codices in a row and a very thin codex supplement, I see this as more likely.)

Chaospling wrote:

GW are incompetent when it comes to making rules for Chaos Space Marines. (With now two bad codices in a row and a very thin codex supplement, I see this as more likely.)

I think it is just that nobody in the studio cares about the army. Kelly likes Eldar and it pays: you only need to read Codex: Dark Eldar or Codex: Eldar to see it. He knew the fluff and liked it, and make a powerful, varied army. Not the case for Chaos. He made some effort, but not much, and it is obvious the Codex is not an act of love. Compare it with Codex Space Marines to see a Codex written by someone who really loves the army.

It is not about the money. There were lots of Chaos players ready to spend money on anything regarding the Legions. It is just that nobody really loves the army. They don´t want to see their beloved Eldars and Space Marines being defeated by the Legions of Chaos. And it could be worse: there are still many CSM players and at least they try. Look at Codex: Adepta Sororitas to see what happens when nobody in the studio cares and the army does not sell well. Even better, look at the factions that have disappeared.

On topic: big disappointment indeed.
From a background perspective, all of them are really awful. Farsight Enclaves is the exception, I enjoyed reading it.
From a gaming perspective, they are a money-grabber. A couple new rules written in half an hour and that´s all. And there is no real relation between the background and the rules. They just add some random warlord traits and relics and call it a day.

And they are insanely expensive

 zephoid wrote:
I expected the codex supplements to do what IA12 did to necrons. Add a new unit or two, give an army wide rule or two, give a unique IC or two, and restrict a unit or two, and thats about it. They do even less than that. Therefore, yes, i am disappointed.

^This.

Seriously, it was not that difficult.

It is not about the money. There were lots of Chaos players ready to spend money on anything regarding the Legions. It is just that nobody really loves the army. They don´t want to see their beloved Eldars and Space Marines being defeated by the Legions of Chaos. And it could be worse: there are still many CSM players and at least they try. Look at Codex: Adepta Sororitas to see what happens when nobody in the studio cares and the army does not sell well. Even better, look at the factions that have disappeared.

And yet they were supposed to be the original Evils of the Galaxy.

The supplements are basically ways for GW to steal your money and have you thank them.. Is divination really worth 35$? If so, why even bother releasing supplements?

Why not just set up an online store purchase that says "For 35 we will send you a certificate that says you can now include a 55pt level 1 divination psyker in all imperial armies!"

That's BASICALLY what the inquisition supplement is and imo you're fooling yourself into justifying the money spent if you believe otherwise. 5 units with 0 being new =! a codex.

GW can't even be bothered to put a days worth of work into making a new and interesting list like FW can. It's not difficult!

So yes, they are hugely disappointing besides the Farsight one. Rest have been a fairly big joke.

Yes, steal your money. They come to your house, put a bolter to your head and make you buy their products.

my only real gripe is you have to get both the orginal and the supplement codex to use it.

i was hoping that the army list sections would be re printed, (albeit with the reorginized force orgs, etc) so that if i wanted to play farsight - i could with his book, i dont need the tau book as well. thats my only real complaint. but since i bought the tau book first, and FE second.. it kind of dosent really matter.

Well if the most optimal way to get divination for an IG army is to take a free ally from INQ codex , then yes they are forcing people to play. someone who runs the same stuff using GKs or doesn't use INQ at all will have a weaker army. .