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Thud wrote:

 labmouse42 wrote:
Thud -- does not hit and run transfer. So one librarian/CM with it gives it to the squad.
The cents don't get it form the WS tactics (which they should be IH, IF, or UM anyway), but can get it from their WS buddy teaching them how to dance in centurion armor.

"It does not apply to models in units that include (...), Centurions." (SM, p. 77)

So the character loses hit and run when he joins the Centurions.


This is only from the chapter tactics, though. Hit and run normally transfers, so you could get it from a Tau Commander, for example.

Not quite. The chapter tactics Rule itself does not give centurions hit and run. However, it gives the other models hit and run, which you can then attack to some other centurions, giving them hit and run. The centurions, especially if they're not white scars, do get the rule because they aren't even white scars.

The way that rule reads to me is that the white scar IC loses hit and run the second he touches the cents.

On the topic of Valkyries.

It adds the option to go full air cav. 3 Vendettas and 3 Valkyries with multiple rocket pods and psybolt heavy bolters.

IG does well with an aegis wall, and for the cost of 2 melta guns a comms relay is well worth it with 6 flyers in reserve.

Psybolt ammo makes a Valkyrie's 9 shots at S6 a serious threat to 2 HP storm talons or AV10 side/rear armor.

Multiple rocket pods are a serious threat to Tau and Eldar. Against marines they can be punishing if units cluster and are not a bad weapon.

Discount henchmen plasma guns are dangerous with grav chute insertion. Upgrading the 12 point squad to a 42 point squad means they can easily dump 6 plasma shots into the rear arc of a wave serpent or annihilation barge. It would also be a great way to take out a TFC by disembarking behind the TFC the only need to score 1 wound on the techmarine and will probably ignore the wall he is hinding behind.

 schadenfreude wrote:
On the topic of Valkyries.

It adds the option to go full air cav. 3 Vendettas and 3 Valkyries with multiple rocket pods and psybolt heavy bolters.

IG does well with an aegis wall, and for the cost of 2 melta guns a comms relay is well worth it with 6 flyers in reserve.

Psybolt ammo makes a Valkyrie's 9 shots at S6 a serious threat to 2 HP storm talons or AV10 side/rear armor.

Multiple rocket pods are a serious threat to Tau and Eldar. Against marines they can be punishing if units cluster and are not a bad weapon.

Discount henchmen plasma guns are dangerous with grav chute insertion. Upgrading the 12 point squad to a 42 point squad means they can easily dump 6 plasma shots into the rear arc of a wave serpent or annihilation barge. It would also be a great way to take out a TFC by disembarking behind the TFC the only need to score 1 wound on the techmarine and will probably ignore the wall he is hinding behind.

Pretty sure they can't take Psybolts, unless the update changed that. Access to the army is not listed under its options.

 magodedisco wrote:

 schadenfreude wrote:
On the topic of Valkyries.

It adds the option to go full air cav. 3 Vendettas and 3 Valkyries with multiple rocket pods and psybolt heavy bolters.

IG does well with an aegis wall, and for the cost of 2 melta guns a comms relay is well worth it with 6 flyers in reserve.

Psybolt ammo makes a Valkyrie's 9 shots at S6 a serious threat to 2 HP storm talons or AV10 side/rear armor.

Multiple rocket pods are a serious threat to Tau and Eldar. Against marines they can be punishing if units cluster and are not a bad weapon.

Discount henchmen plasma guns are dangerous with grav chute insertion. Upgrading the 12 point squad to a 42 point squad means they can easily dump 6 plasma shots into the rear arc of a wave serpent or annihilation barge. It would also be a great way to take out a TFC by disembarking behind the TFC the only need to score 1 wound on the techmarine and will probably ignore the wall he is hinding behind.

Pretty sure they can't take Psybolts, unless the update changed that. Access to the army is not listed under its options.

I thought they just had 1 vehicle upgrade chart for all vehicles which includes psybolt for razorbacks and valkyries.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hmm maybe not I could be wrong.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Need someone to check if Valkyries and Chimera can take psybolt.

The actual unit entry where the point costs are listed should specify whether or not they can take items from that list, like how it is in the land raider entry.

 McNinja wrote:

Thud wrote:

 labmouse42 wrote:
Thud -- does not hit and run transfer. So one librarian/CM with it gives it to the squad.
The cents don't get it form the WS tactics (which they should be IH, IF, or UM anyway), but can get it from their WS buddy teaching them how to dance in centurion armor.

"It does not apply to models in units that include (...), Centurions." (SM, p. 77)

So the character loses hit and run when he joins the Centurions.


This is only from the chapter tactics, though. Hit and run normally transfers, so you could get it from a Tau Commander, for example.

Not quite. The chapter tactics Rule itself does not give centurions hit and run. However, it gives the other models hit and run, which you can then attack to some other centurions, giving them hit and run. The centurions, especially if they're not white scars, do get the rule because they aren't even white scars.

What?

I quoted the rule from the codex, and even included page reference. If a Librarian (or whatever) with the WS chapter tactics joins a unit of Centurions, then, surely, he is in a unit that includes Centurions, which means he no longer as hit and run. It's pretty clear.

 schadenfreude wrote:
On the topic of Valkyries.

It adds the option to go full air cav. 3 Vendettas and 3 Valkyries with multiple rocket pods and psybolt heavy bolters.

IG does well with an aegis wall, and for the cost of 2 melta guns a comms relay is well worth it with 6 flyers in reserve.

Psybolt ammo makes a Valkyrie's 9 shots at S6 a serious threat to 2 HP storm talons or AV10 side/rear armor.

Multiple rocket pods are a serious threat to Tau and Eldar. Against marines they can be punishing if units cluster and are not a bad weapon.

Discount henchmen plasma guns are dangerous with grav chute insertion. Upgrading the 12 point squad to a 42 point squad means they can easily dump 6 plasma shots into the rear arc of a wave serpent or annihilation barge. It would also be a great way to take out a TFC by disembarking behind the TFC the only need to score 1 wound on the techmarine and will probably ignore the wall he is hinding behind.

Was there an update that lets valks take vehicle upgrades?

I would love them to have psybolt ammo.

 labmouse42 wrote:
6+ : Base
5+ : Psyker
4+ : Higher Level Psyker (Coteaz is lvl 2)
3+ : Adamantium Will (Celestine)

Adamantium Will confers to the unit, so if Celestine is in the unit, the unit gets it. She also confers hit and run.

It's only a 4+(or 5+ if a level 2 is casting at you). Psyker modifiers are not cumulative. Page 68. It is 'one or more psykers'.

edit: Wait, I get what you're saying now.
6+ Natural
5+ for Celestine
3+ for Higher Level Psyker.

Whoops. So 3+ or 4+, my bad.

Oops I guess Valkyries are 5 points cheaper. Was going off information I received a couple of days ago. Ow well Valkyries are still good against infantry and plasma guns are great for grav chute insertion. 6 flyers at av12 is still a problem.

 pretre wrote:

 labmouse42 wrote:
6+ : Base
5+ : Psyker
4+ : Higher Level Psyker (Coteaz is lvl 2)
3+ : Adamantium Will (Celestine)

Adamantium Will confers to the unit, so if Celestine is in the unit, the unit gets it. She also confers hit and run.

It's only a 4+(or 5+ if a level 2 is casting at you). Psyker modifiers are not cumulative. Page 68. It is 'one or more psykers'.

edit: Wait, I get what you're saying now.
6+ Natural
5+ for Celestine
3+ for Higher Level Psyker.

Whoops. So 3+ or 4+, my bad.

I think he meant the psyker, then the fact that said psyker is ML2

 schadenfreude wrote:
Oops I guess Valkyries are 5 points cheaper. Was going off information I received a couple of days ago. Ow well Valkyries are still good against infantry and plasma guns are great for grav chute insertion. 6 flyers at av12 is still a problem.

Valks are not bad at all. AV 12 flyers are no joke.
You still can't bring 6. You can bring 3 in a detachment -- but you could just ally with something like C:SM to bring 3 storm ravens -- which is a better compliment anyway.

 labmouse42 wrote:

 schadenfreude wrote:
Oops I guess Valkyries are 5 points cheaper. Was going off information I received a couple of days ago. Ow well Valkyries are still good against infantry and plasma guns are great for grav chute insertion. 6 flyers at av12 is still a problem.

Valks are not bad at all. AV 12 flyers are no joke.
You still can't bring 6. You can bring 3 in a detachment -- but you could just ally with something like C:SM to bring 3 storm ravens -- which is a better compliment anyway.

Except that even with an on-board inquisitor to add in prescience, the Valkyrie is still 45 points cheaper, and it holds cheaper (scoring, with coteaz) units. Remember, a psyker in a transport can only target himself, his unit, or his transport. An Inquisitor in a Lascannon Valkyrie putting prescience on it is still fantastic AA. It may not have a twin-linked BS4 Multi-melta, but it does have some S8 ordnance missiles.

A valk + inquisiotor fills a different role than a storm raven.

The storm raven is more durable (immune to melta) and has a lot more overall firepower.

The valk is good for the access to cheap potentionally scoring units. (You need coteaz)

Its not an either-or though. You can take both.

 labmouse42 wrote:
A valk + inquisiotor fills a different role than a storm raven.

The storm raven is more durable (immune to melta) and has a lot more overall firepower.

The valk is good for the access to cheap potentionally scoring units. (You need coteaz)

Its not an either-or though. You can take both.

It's only immune to the melta rule. I've shot down several stormravens with meltas. Against Stormravens, meltas are krak missiles that don't suck. If the Stormraven were ACTUALLY immune to melta, I'd feel better about the pricetag.

 labmouse42 wrote:

 schadenfreude wrote:
Oops I guess Valkyries are 5 points cheaper. Was going off information I received a couple of days ago. Ow well Valkyries are still good against infantry and plasma guns are great for grav chute insertion. 6 flyers at av12 is still a problem.

Valks are not bad at all. AV 12 flyers are no joke.
You still can't bring 6. You can bring 3 in a detachment -- but you could just ally with something like C:SM to bring 3 storm ravens -- which is a better compliment anyway.

IG Primary 3 Vendettas.
GK detachment 3 Valkyries
Aegis with a comms relay.

I`m liking the look of this if you are bringing Coteaz:
3 acolytes
Land Raider Crusader, multimelta, psybolt, dozerblade
282pts for one, 564 for 2 and 846 for 3.

With psybolt, the crusader is actually pretty scary. S7 assault cannon is scary for everything, S5 hurricane bolters are pretty good infantry clearance - might even be worth buying the storm bolter for another two S5 shots? Multimeltas are always nice to have.

May also be worth spending some pts on the units inside, you don`t need to spend many pts on them to make them scary in assault/shooting or both.

While 850pts is a lot, 3 raiders is a serious wall of AV14, and most armies will struggle with taking them down. They are dangerous to anything except fliers, and you also get three scoring units which can be made very scary for fairly cheap.

Combine with some more AV14 from the primary detachment or with something that can take advantage of the AV14 wall (IG artillery buffed by Coteaz?).

I thought of a pretty expensive unit, But i think the damage output is worth it. So I was thinking of having 3 canon servitors, 3 crusaders, and 3 jakero weaponsmiths in one unit. Add in the prescience inquisitor with the liber that can give him split fire, and I think this unit just got good. Behind an ADL you can split fire the plasma cannons onto a unit, then have the jakero shoot at something else, along with the icarus or quad gun being fired by the inquisitor firing at either target. Thoughts?

Split fire only allows a single model to shot at something else, so doesn`t really work. Jokaero are just too expensive IMO.