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Thank you for your post i understand your points and im just tried of seeing the IOM is crappy and they cannot produce anything good argument and not bother to look at anything or just say its IOM so its crappy.

If you think I am a Tau fan-boy, you would be... very wrong. My most-favorite factions of the setting are all Imperial factions, some of which aren't well-represented on the table-top.

Point being, for a sci-fi setting, the IOM *is* fairly low-tech. That's actually part of their appeal. They manage to stand against much more-advanced, often much more-numerous foes with nothing but a simple lasgun, a tractor-turned-tank and a prayer to a silent god. The greatest examples of their technology are relics from a mythical age that few, if any, have any degree of comprehension of their principles of operation, and technology is more religion than science.

They have a force of super-soldiers who are, simultaneously, superhumans and less-than-human. These soldiers, too, are equipped in ancient relics and tools of an era ten thousand years gone, and live as warrior-monks, while fighting as super-soldiers and berzerkers.

It is this aspect of the Imperium, that this star-spanning, monolithic juggernaut of an empire that comprises everything from orbital platforms and sprawling Hive Cities to barbaric worlds where fire is a relatively new invention, can withstand all of the threats that are arrayed against it, often with little more than a 20th-century firearm and a bulletproof vest, is what makes it interesting.

 Psienesis wrote:
If you think I am a Tau fan-boy, you would be... very wrong. My most-favorite factions of the setting are all Imperial factions, some of which aren't well-represented on the table-top.

Point being, for a sci-fi setting, the IOM *is* fairly low-tech. That's actually part of their appeal. They manage to stand against much more-advanced, often much more-numerous foes with nothing but a simple lasgun, a tractor-turned-tank and a prayer to a silent god. The greatest examples of their technology are relics from a mythical age that few, if any, have any degree of comprehension of their principles of operation, and technology is more religion than science.

They have a force of super-soldiers who are, simultaneously, superhumans and less-than-human. These soldiers, too, are equipped in ancient relics and tools of an era ten thousand years gone, and live as warrior-monks, while fighting as super-soldiers and berzerkers.

It is this aspect of the Imperium, that this star-spanning, monolithic juggernaut of an empire that comprises everything from orbital platforms and sprawling Hive Cities to barbaric worlds where fire is a relatively new invention, can withstand all of the threats that are arrayed against it, often with little more than a 20th-century firearm and a bulletproof vest, is what makes it interesting.

Sorry if i offended you and you have good points and the IG are my first and favorite army. I just want them to be more than chanting idiots, but oh well.

Psienesis, you have pretty much summed up why i also enjoy the imperial factions the most have an exalt

Considering what is going on at Cadia, I don't think the Imperium has much room to do anything right now. Tyranid, Orc, Necron, Tau, doesn't matter. Chaos is knocking on their front door. Screw everything else. @.@

Also, about GW's stance on this issue: I agree with Gunhead, simply because as a Chaos player, that really is how the set up is perceived.

Space Marines are the Always-Wins, so in order to make anyone look good, they have to beat on some Space Marines. But the Space Marines can't lose face, so they beat on Chaos. And what does Chaos get to beat on?

Nothing. -__-

GW, WHY DO YOU HATE US SO!?!!!


Edit for above posts: I like the Imperium too, but they are too proud imo. That's why I went with Chaos. Get all that goodness of the Space Marines, but with a war doctrine far more terrifying. I also like the fact that Chaos commands Magicks and makes the Imperium look like a child for it. XD Quoted from the Chaos Space Marines Codex from the Sorcerer entry: "The crude pyrotechnics of the Imperium are the weapons of a frightened child. Only we have the courage to wield the Immaterium itself."

 Psienesis wrote:
If you think I am a Tau fan-boy, you would be... very wrong. My most-favorite factions of the setting are all Imperial factions, some of which aren't well-represented on the table-top.

Point being, for a sci-fi setting, the IOM *is* fairly low-tech. That's actually part of their appeal. They manage to stand against much more-advanced, often much more-numerous foes with nothing but a simple lasgun, a tractor-turned-tank and a prayer to a silent god. The greatest examples of their technology are relics from a mythical age that few, if any, have any degree of comprehension of their principles of operation, and technology is more religion than science.

They have a force of super-soldiers who are, simultaneously, superhumans and less-than-human. These soldiers, too, are equipped in ancient relics and tools of an era ten thousand years gone, and live as warrior-monks, while fighting as super-soldiers and berzerkers.

It is this aspect of the Imperium, that this star-spanning, monolithic juggernaut of an empire that comprises everything from orbital platforms and sprawling Hive Cities to barbaric worlds where fire is a relatively new invention, can withstand all of the threats that are arrayed against it, often with little more than a 20th-century firearm and a bulletproof vest, is what makes it interesting.

I won't address how disastrously wrong the rest of the OP's "Tech Tree" was, but the IoM being called "low tech" is pretty unforgivable in my eyes. I can understand the misconception though, and it's not like it's uncommon. You're certainly not the only one who would identify the Imperium that way. It's easy after all isn't it?

But, this is 40k. Not reality. The Imperium certainly has its share of archaic practices and superstitious beliefs. BUT, and this is important. They are not wrong.

If I told you (in real life) that I believe all things are made of up tiny little butterflies, you'd probably just hope I got locked up someday right? And I'd be crazy. Right up until you looked under a microscope and saw that your favorite pet or pencil was actually composed of tiny little butterflies.

That's how it is in 40k. That world is made of butterflies (so to speak). The Technocrats ruling Mars are far from stupid. They don't whisper little rituals and chant hymms out of ignorance. They do those things because it gets results. They don't screw in a light-bulb and then say a quick prayer - in 40k they probably mutter a techno-incantation, or "rite of repair" and the bulb screws itself in. That's just the reality of this world.

Look at it like the reverse of Chaos. Cultists don't just hang around chanting to the Ruinous Powers and risking terrible punishment for the hell of it. They perform the dark rituals because it gives them a very real, very tangible benefit. They gain power, sorcerous magicks, and favor from much more powerful beings.

It can hardly be called "low tech".

Also, remember that humanity once conquered the entirety of the galaxy in a grand Empire (not unlike the Eldar). That ancient empire was killed by its own technology (the Iron Men) who rebelled against them. That is why Artificial Intelligence is a sin against the Machine God. At the very least that means that he Technomagi are VERY well versed in history.

Also looking at various other technologies that the Imperoum has created (digital weapons - so small that they are basically fine jewelry - the second most advanced genetic engineering the galaxy - Juvenant treatments to extend lifespans - Terraforming - Titans - Void shields - etc).

Excepting that other factions have indicated that, no, the AdMech do *not* know what the hell they are talking about. The relics they're gathering are all sorts of riddled with the remains of a trillion AI systems, ECM, ECCM and electronic warfare agents left over from both the Heresy and the War of Iron, but the fact that Eldar, Necron, and Tau technology... or even Ork technology... does not fall into the same trap tells us that not all tech in 40K needs to function in the way the AdMech thinks it does.

And in comparing the IoM to the Necrons... or the Eldar... or the Tau.... yes! It most certainly *can* be called low-tech! What is or is not "high tech" is a matter of comparison.

Is a man in a suit of iron wielding a sharp metal stick, mounted on a quadupedal mammal a low-tech warrior? Of course! *Unless* you're a naked tribesman wielding a wooden stick with a bit of sharp rock on one end... in which case, that mounted knight is *god-like* in his technical aptitude.

And that's the sort of situation this is. *Comparatively speaking* the IoM *is* a fairly low-tech society. It has a very small few number of gee-whiz tech-relics... none of which it can replicate or really understand how they function... but the bulk of its technology seems to come from 1952.

I've posted this before, but I'll do it again:
http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Adeptus_Mechanicus

Skip down to the part titled "Why Everything is so Grimdark". Explains a lot in about the most concise (if NSFW) manner I've ever seen.

This is still my favorite part of that page.

So Cute.

 En Excelsis wrote:

Also, remember that humanity once conquered the entirety of the galaxy in a grand Empire (not unlike the Eldar). That ancient empire was killed by its own technology (the Iron Men) who rebelled against them. That is why Artificial Intelligence is a sin against the Machine God. At the very least that means that he Technomagi are VERY well versed in history.
Also looking at various other technologies that the Imperoum has created (digital weapons - so small that they are basically fine jewelry - the second most advanced genetic engineering the galaxy - Juvenant treatments to extend lifespans - Terraforming - Titans - Void shields - etc).

Most of these technologies were created during the DAoT, which means they are at least 15000/18000 years old in the setting. Nobody can replicate them, nobody understands how they work. Think about it for a second: the best technology available is at least 15000 years old. Investigation? Development? Universities where people create new ideas that enrich the species? Not at all. The Technomagi literally pray that they keep working.

Humanity during the Dark Age had brilliant scientists. Not any more. Now they have priests.

A little detail here: the Dark Age turned into the Age of Strife for unknown reasons. There are, however, two main possible causes: the war against the machines and the appearance of psykers. The apparition of, to all effects, sorcerers and magicians radically changed the setting. Science no longer ruled supreme.

Look at it like the reverse of Chaos. Cultists don't just hang around chanting to the Ruinous Powers and risking terrible punishment for the hell of it. They perform the dark rituals because it gives them a very real, very tangible benefit. They gain power, sorcerous magicks, and favor from much more powerful beings.

It can hardly be called "low tech".

Which is magic. Not technology. The setting uses both: you can shoot a laser and then charge with a demon. From a magical point of view, the Imperium is quite strong. And don´t forget that the Chaos worshippers can turn into spawns as easily as anything else. The Chaos Gods do not follow a "you help me, I help you" rule. They are unpredictable (chaotic, so to say).

Also, I think the Chaos forces (the Lost and the Damned) have a more "modern" approach to technology. They build tanks and space ships, and they do it from the scratch. And the Dark Mechanicus loves investigation and research. They are always trying new things using science, magic, or a mix of both.

@Psienesis: that was a nice link and a nice read. Thanks!

 Psienesis wrote:
Excepting that other factions have indicated that, no, the AdMech do *not* know what the hell they are talking about. The relics they're gathering are all sorts of riddled with the remains of a trillion AI systems, ECM, ECCM and electronic warfare agents left over from both the Heresy and the War of Iron, but the fact that Eldar, Necron, and Tau technology... or even Ork technology... does not fall into the same trap tells us that not all tech in 40K needs to function in the way the AdMech thinks it does.

And in comparing the IoM to the Necrons... or the Eldar... or the Tau.... yes! It most certainly *can* be called low-tech! What is or is not "high tech" is a matter of comparison.

Is a man in a suit of iron wielding a sharp metal stick, mounted on a quadupedal mammal a low-tech warrior? Of course! *Unless* you're a naked tribesman wielding a wooden stick with a bit of sharp rock on one end... in which case, that mounted knight is *god-like* in his technical aptitude.

And that's the sort of situation this is. *Comparatively speaking* the IoM *is* a fairly low-tech society. It has a very small few number of gee-whiz tech-relics... none of which it can replicate or really understand how they function... but the bulk of its technology seems to come from 1952.

I've posted this before, but I'll do it again:
http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Adeptus_Mechanicus

Skip down to the part titled "Why Everything is so Grimdark". Explains a lot in about the most concise (if NSFW) manner I've ever seen.

That is pretty darn good you sir have convinced me and strangely enough it actually makes me like the tech priests more. That is actually the best way anyone has put it that I have read/heard.

To En Excelala
So my tech tree is horrible is it . Well that's fine though I'm curious why do you feel that way and where do you think the races should be

Warpcraft is technology and science. It's a natural part of the 40k universe so study and use of that force is largely indistinguishable from 'regular' science and tech.

Necrons and C'Tan are more 'magic' because what they have/do happens 'just because' with no natural (universal) phenomenon or force behind it.

Actually, Necron Tech is super-science. They are the faction that best represents Clarke's Third Law, which states "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." In a sense, the Necrons are a villain from a 1950s drive-in sci-fi movie.

They do what they do because their science is so tight that they can ignore, or work around, basic physics.

Well said Psienesis.

If we look at it that way.

Necrons are Superscience to persent day real world
Eldar are Superscience to present day real world

IoM, Tau and Orks are concievable scientifically with small leaps of logic. That's what makes these armies appealing to some, they can RELATE to their weapons and technology.

 Farseer Faenyin wrote:
Well said Psienesis.

If we look at it that way.

Necrons are Superscience to persent day real world
Eldar are Superscience to present day real world

IoM, Tau and Orks are concievable scientifically with small leaps of logic. That's what makes these armies appealing to some, they can RELATE to their weapons and technology.

Orks completely ignore logic, which is IMO one of the appeals of the race.

 Tyran wrote:

 Farseer Faenyin wrote:
Well said Psienesis.

If we look at it that way.

Necrons are Superscience to persent day real world
Eldar are Superscience to present day real world

IoM, Tau and Orks are concievable scientifically with small leaps of logic. That's what makes these armies appealing to some, they can RELATE to their weapons and technology.

Orks completely ignore logic, which is IMO one of the appeals of the race.

I disagree about orks ignoring logic. I'm not sure where the idea that all ork tech works on faith or magic. I think its a bit of people running away with something they heard and expanding on it. Most probably haven't ever read the 3rd ed. Ork codex where a lot of this stuff comes from in the first place.

Ork Tech has to phycially work. It does. A shoota has to have all the correct working parts that makes a gun go pop. Its ammo needs powder, a casing, and a projectile to hit with. The ork can't just hold up a stick and go pew pew and make it shoot, regardless of how hard he believes it does. The latent psychic field is not anywhere near that strong.

However, what that field does do, is keep the gun running when it probably should have jammed or maybe overheated if it was being fired by a guardsmen. The big shoota probably hits harder when fired by an ork than a guardsmen because it is a loud gun. And orks believe that loud things hit harder.... Thats just common sense right. However, make no mistake, the big shoota will work in a guardsman hands. Naturally red trukks go faster (just a tich) than non red trukks because thats what orks believe happens. But the red one isn't going to lap the yellow one by any means of imagination.

Yes Mek boys are born with genetic knowledge of mechanical engineering, chemistry (for fuel and explosives), physics and other such skills. But that only goes so far. Its that way for when the spores propagate onto a world, Ork society can start at a highish level. Each new planet doesn't have to reinvent the wheel. However (especially the 'Er we go 2nd ed book) is full of stories of Meks experimenting and sometimes the results work the first time, often they don't. They very much learn by process of trial and error. (ork test pilots has got to be a sucky job) They get ideas from other races and spring board them into something of Orky equivalency. Orky inventive imagination is truly a frightening prospect for those he deems to play the part of guinna pig.

Thats what I love about orks. The Warboss takes his best Mek aside and says "I want dis to do dat. Make it happen." Then the Mek goes and starts tinkering with what he knows and starts throwing in things that might work. Two to a couple dozen mishaps later the Boss has what he wants. This is especially true during a Waagh. The prevaling overwhelming psychic energy really gets the Meks brain moving in directions he never could have imagined on his own. He is able to make massive bounds forward in mental theories and physical laws and applications to put them to action. Its gotta be one of the coolest things to witness.

 Jayden63 wrote:

I disagree about orks ignoring logic. I'm not sure where the idea that all ork tech works on faith or magic. I think its a bit of people running away with something they heard and expanding on it. Most probably haven't ever read the 3rd ed. Ork codex where a lot of this stuff comes from in the first place.

Ork Tech has to phycially work. It does. A shoota has to have all the correct working parts that makes a gun go pop. Its ammo needs powder, a casing, and a projectile to hit with. The ork can't just hold up a stick and go pew pew and make it shoot, regardless of how hard he believes it does. The latent psychic field is not anywhere near that strong.

Tell that to a Weirdboy. XD

I've always been of the mind that Ork tech scales to their opponents so naturally it would have to work on some normal level. I just like the idea of Waagh energy magnetizing some fools shoota together and when the enemy picks it up and just falls apart. Or a nob has a Big' Choppa (Chain ax?) that doesn't run unless the ork his holding it, unlike the "activation runes" on Space Marine equipment.

 TheRedWingArmada wrote:

 Jayden63 wrote:

I disagree about orks ignoring logic. I'm not sure where the idea that all ork tech works on faith or magic. I think its a bit of people running away with something they heard and expanding on it. Most probably haven't ever read the 3rd ed. Ork codex where a lot of this stuff comes from in the first place.

Ork Tech has to phycially work. It does. A shoota has to have all the correct working parts that makes a gun go pop. Its ammo needs powder, a casing, and a projectile to hit with. The ork can't just hold up a stick and go pew pew and make it shoot, regardless of how hard he believes it does. The latent psychic field is not anywhere near that strong.

Tell that to a Weirdboy. XD

I've always been of the mind that Ork tech scales to their opponents so naturally it would have to work on some normal level. I just like the idea of Waagh energy magnetizing some fools shoota together and when the enemy picks it up and just falls apart. Or a nob has a Big' Choppa (Chain ax?) that doesn't run unless the ork his holding it, unlike the "activation runes" on Space Marine equipment.

I haven't seen anything that suggests anything like that happens at all with Ork technology. I really don't like the idea of "Orks believe it so it's true" that everyone seems to have, i haven't seen any real proof of that - especially not to the degree some people suggest, such as a stick becoming a gun or their weapons being completely empty inside. Even the thing about red making things go faster seems a bit too much, if a Mek is going to put lots of work into making a vehicle go as fast as possible, he's going to give it a red paint job when he's done - to the other orks the only visible change would be the red paint despite there being lots of things done to improve the speed.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

 TheRedWingArmada wrote:

 Jayden63 wrote:

I disagree about orks ignoring logic. I'm not sure where the idea that all ork tech works on faith or magic. I think its a bit of people running away with something they heard and expanding on it. Most probably haven't ever read the 3rd ed. Ork codex where a lot of this stuff comes from in the first place.

Ork Tech has to phycially work. It does. A shoota has to have all the correct working parts that makes a gun go pop. Its ammo needs powder, a casing, and a projectile to hit with. The ork can't just hold up a stick and go pew pew and make it shoot, regardless of how hard he believes it does. The latent psychic field is not anywhere near that strong.

Tell that to a Weirdboy. XD

I've always been of the mind that Ork tech scales to their opponents so naturally it would have to work on some normal level. I just like the idea of Waagh energy magnetizing some fools shoota together and when the enemy picks it up and just falls apart. Or a nob has a Big' Choppa (Chain ax?) that doesn't run unless the ork his holding it, unlike the "activation runes" on Space Marine equipment.

I haven't seen anything that suggests anything like that happens at all with Ork technology. I really don't like the idea of "Orks believe it so it's true" that everyone seems to have, i haven't seen any real proof of that - especially not to the degree some people suggest, such as a stick becoming a gun or their weapons being completely empty inside. Even the thing about red making things go faster seems a bit too much, if a Mek is going to put lots of work into making a vehicle go as fast as possible, he's going to give it a red paint job when he's done - to the other orks the only visible change would be the red paint despite there being lots of things done to improve the speed.

IIRC the Colors are:
Red: Faster
Yellow: More Dakka
Blue: Luckier
Purple: Stealthier.

Also the Orks need to believe it is going to work for it working, a stick becoming a gun isn't believable because a stick doesn't looks like a gun, but take a metal box, put bullets in one place, stick some barrels in another place and a handle with a trigger in another place and you have an Ork weapon.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

 TheRedWingArmada wrote:

 Jayden63 wrote:

I disagree about orks ignoring logic. I'm not sure where the idea that all ork tech works on faith or magic. I think its a bit of people running away with something they heard and expanding on it. Most probably haven't ever read the 3rd ed. Ork codex where a lot of this stuff comes from in the first place.

Ork Tech has to phycially work. It does. A shoota has to have all the correct working parts that makes a gun go pop. Its ammo needs powder, a casing, and a projectile to hit with. The ork can't just hold up a stick and go pew pew and make it shoot, regardless of how hard he believes it does. The latent psychic field is not anywhere near that strong.

Tell that to a Weirdboy. XD

I've always been of the mind that Ork tech scales to their opponents so naturally it would have to work on some normal level. I just like the idea of Waagh energy magnetizing some fools shoota together and when the enemy picks it up and just falls apart. Or a nob has a Big' Choppa (Chain ax?) that doesn't run unless the ork his holding it, unlike the "activation runes" on Space Marine equipment.

I haven't seen anything that suggests anything like that happens at all with Ork technology. I really don't like the idea of "Orks believe it so it's true" that everyone seems to have, i haven't seen any real proof of that - especially not to the degree some people suggest, such as a stick becoming a gun or their weapons being completely empty inside. Even the thing about red making things go faster seems a bit too much, if a Mek is going to put lots of work into making a vehicle go as fast as possible, he's going to give it a red paint job when he's done - to the other orks the only visible change would be the red paint despite there being lots of things done to improve the speed.

It's as you say.

Back in 2nd Ed. the joke was that the orks thought painting a battlewagon red made it go faster. Now some people seem to think it does. The parody has become the thing itself. And I think it's a little less funny for it.

I don't know where people got such extreme ideas about ork technology. I think some people just liked the idea of things working because you think they do, and have taken it way more literally than it was meant.

 Tyran wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

 TheRedWingArmada wrote:

 Jayden63 wrote:

I disagree about orks ignoring logic. I'm not sure where the idea that all ork tech works on faith or magic. I think its a bit of people running away with something they heard and expanding on it. Most probably haven't ever read the 3rd ed. Ork codex where a lot of this stuff comes from in the first place.

Ork Tech has to phycially work. It does. A shoota has to have all the correct working parts that makes a gun go pop. Its ammo needs powder, a casing, and a projectile to hit with. The ork can't just hold up a stick and go pew pew and make it shoot, regardless of how hard he believes it does. The latent psychic field is not anywhere near that strong.

Tell that to a Weirdboy. XD

I've always been of the mind that Ork tech scales to their opponents so naturally it would have to work on some normal level. I just like the idea of Waagh energy magnetizing some fools shoota together and when the enemy picks it up and just falls apart. Or a nob has a Big' Choppa (Chain ax?) that doesn't run unless the ork his holding it, unlike the "activation runes" on Space Marine equipment.

I haven't seen anything that suggests anything like that happens at all with Ork technology. I really don't like the idea of "Orks believe it so it's true" that everyone seems to have, i haven't seen any real proof of that - especially not to the degree some people suggest, such as a stick becoming a gun or their weapons being completely empty inside. Even the thing about red making things go faster seems a bit too much, if a Mek is going to put lots of work into making a vehicle go as fast as possible, he's going to give it a red paint job when he's done - to the other orks the only visible change would be the red paint despite there being lots of things done to improve the speed.

IIRC the Colors are:
Red: Faster
Yellow: More Dakka
Blue: Luckier
Purple: Stealthier.

Also the Orks need to believe it is going to work for it working, a stick becoming a gun isn't believable because a stick doesn't looks like a gun, but take a metal box, put bullets in one place, stick some barrels in another place and a handle with a trigger in another place and you have an Ork weapon.

Any evidence for a gun that is just an empty metal box that looks like a gun working? I see that mentioned fairly often, but i haven't seen any real proof that anything like that can happen. All i know is one story of a Techmarine supposedly opening a gun to find shouldn't of worked properly, but we aren't given the whole story for that and it's an in-universe perspective that can easily have plenty of explanations that make more sense than actually working like that.

Omg, I was poking at that as a joke! Personally, I think that is what makes the Orkz godly. You don't have to understand it but you do have to respect it because whether or not you believe, they do and enough to start a war over it and win.

Who really cares how much the Waagh aids in their logistics? Does it make sense that a Mekboy is going to tinker away at an awesome weapon and then give it the desired paint job for the desired effect? Sure. Of course even. That's just good physics. But is it possible for that same ork boy to throw a bunch of metal together with bullets in it, hand it to someone else and say "Go shoot!"? Possible as well.

Let's just roll it all up together and call it Ork tech.

And the crack about the stick was that a Weird Boy apparently throws balls of Orkstuff out of the stick...like a gun of sorts. Can other orks do this? Probably not, but at least he can make a stick go "bang-bang-bang!"

I don't like this idea that ork tech only works because of the waagh. It feels like it takes away form the orks. There is no reason that the orks can't make actual weapons and if they are making working weapons then they don't need a waggh field. Also the waagh thing leads to out right silly ideas like the shooting stick. I'd much rather hold the position that ork weapons are crude but real and functional.

In the ciaphas cain books he and others did use ork weapons and vehicles. He said that the only reason that you didn't want to use an ork gun is that the recoil could break your arm.

I skipped everything but I just wanted to say that I agreed with the list. I am a massive Tau fan. I am far more hopeful about their survival and ascension as a major empire than a lot of others. However, I think their relative space inferiority (where a lot of the most advanced technology comes into play) makes them the lowest player overall. I kept expecting for me to find a point of disagreement but the logic is sound.

knas ser wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

 TheRedWingArmada wrote:

 Jayden63 wrote:

I disagree about orks ignoring logic. I'm not sure where the idea that all ork tech works on faith or magic. I think its a bit of people running away with something they heard and expanding on it. Most probably haven't ever read the 3rd ed. Ork codex where a lot of this stuff comes from in the first place.

Ork Tech has to phycially work. It does. A shoota has to have all the correct working parts that makes a gun go pop. Its ammo needs powder, a casing, and a projectile to hit with. The ork can't just hold up a stick and go pew pew and make it shoot, regardless of how hard he believes it does. The latent psychic field is not anywhere near that strong.

Tell that to a Weirdboy. XD

I've always been of the mind that Ork tech scales to their opponents so naturally it would have to work on some normal level. I just like the idea of Waagh energy magnetizing some fools shoota together and when the enemy picks it up and just falls apart. Or a nob has a Big' Choppa (Chain ax?) that doesn't run unless the ork his holding it, unlike the "activation runes" on Space Marine equipment.

I haven't seen anything that suggests anything like that happens at all with Ork technology. I really don't like the idea of "Orks believe it so it's true" that everyone seems to have, i haven't seen any real proof of that - especially not to the degree some people suggest, such as a stick becoming a gun or their weapons being completely empty inside. Even the thing about red making things go faster seems a bit too much, if a Mek is going to put lots of work into making a vehicle go as fast as possible, he's going to give it a red paint job when he's done - to the other orks the only visible change would be the red paint despite there being lots of things done to improve the speed.

It's as you say.

Back in 2nd Ed. the joke was that the orks thought painting a battlewagon red made it go faster. Now some people seem to think it does. The parody has become the thing itself. And I think it's a little less funny for it.

I don't know where people got such extreme ideas about ork technology. I think some people just liked the idea of things working because you think they do, and have taken it way more literally than it was meant.

... though, a Red Paint Job *does* grant a vehicle 1" of extra movement, for free.

But I think the thought of Ork Technology only working because magic is because the TechMarines and TechPriests open up Orky weapons, look at its "crude" design and scoff, saying "This couldn't possibly work!"

... forgetting that the AdMech learns its construction and design rituals through rote memorization, not actually understanding ballistic sciences. It "shouldn't work" because it doesn't match what the AdMech thinks all proper weapons should look like, not because it is violating some laws of physics.