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Honestly they are overcosted. If they came with the hurricane bolters for 210 they would be fine (or priced 180 default). They come on turn 2-3 and, while strong, are no stronger than vendettas. Even if vendettas get nerfed in the coming codex, the increasing quantity of skyfire and interceptor makes them slowly worse. Most AA is going to be costed to deal with Helldrakes and Night Scythes, which leaves the much more expensive Stormraven a bit weaker. ATM the stormraven should have been the only AV12 flier. Had every other flier been AV11-10, we might have a case for it being a great choice as is. But 200 points for average survivability and average damage output is a bit steep.

I think 150 to one 180 should be it cost at should also lose its troop careing ability as it will probably never be used

zilka86 wrote:
I think 150 to one 180 should be it cost at should also lose its troop careing ability as it will probably never be used

Why does everyone state this, I still see them used quite often.

Because as soon as you go in hover mode ur dead meet along with any troops you have

when you go into hover, you are a normal vehicle, meaning anything inside takes S4 hits if it explodes. Marines dont really care about that.

They also have the grav insertion if you need to get out when its flying.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

zilka86 wrote:
I think 150 to one 180 should be it cost at should also lose its troop careing ability as it will probably never be used

Why does everyone state this, I still see them used quite often.

As a troop carrier, you mean?
Probably by people that don't follow the rules by the letter.

Because of the distance it can move and the size of the model you can only enter it onto the field as a flier. (skimmer will not allow it to fully enter the field and it has to fully enter the field.)
It sort of limits the use when the one round you can expect it to live, you can't disembark normally from it but must use Skies of Fury. (Although some still debate whether you can use that from a zooming flier.)
And for GK, that's pointless as they can DS anything but a dread anyway, so they may aswell DS on their own and be able to pick anywhere on the battlefield instead of only under the path of the flier.
Same thing for most termies, and honestly, coming out of a pod is much better than DS'ing out of a flier.

zilka86 wrote:
Because as soon as you go in hover mode ur dead meet along with any troops you have

What about Skies Of Blood? Or was that removed in the new edition?

The Stormraven can take a decent punishing compared to most flyers anyway, considering that most AA weapons are low strength compared to most anti vehicle weaponry.

It is reasonably priced. In fact some would think it is overpriced.

Certainly the Dakkajet needs looking at if you consider the Stormraven OP for its points....

G.A

 Purifier wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

zilka86 wrote:
I think 150 to one 180 should be it cost at should also lose its troop careing ability as it will probably never be used

Why does everyone state this, I still see them used quite often.

As a troop carrier, you mean?
Probably by people that don't follow the rules by the letter.

Because of the distance it can move and the size of the model you can only enter it onto the field as a flier. (skimmer will not allow it to fully enter the field and it has to fully enter the field.)
It sort of limits the use when the one round you can expect it to live, you can't disembark normally from it but must use Skies of Fury. (Although some still debate whether you can use that from a zooming flier.)
And for GK, that's pointless as they can DS anything but a dread anyway, so they may aswell DS on their own and be able to pick anywhere on the battlefield instead of only under the path of the flier.
Same thing for most termies, and honestly, coming out of a pod is much better than DS'ing out of a flier.

Only if they move more then 6" that turn they have to use Skies of Fury. (Looking at new SM codex, don't know where my old BA and GK dex is right now to compare)

But yeah it looks more like it'd be for zooming over normal, though most of the people I know use it to do some damage, and then later on hover, then charge an Ironclad/Furioso into assault with maybe an assault squad (Honor guard is popular now. )

General Annoyance wrote:

The Stormraven can take a decent punishing compared to most flyers anyway, considering that most AA weapons are low strength compared to most anti vehicle weaponry.

I don't know what you consider AA weapons, but snapfiring isn't always a big problem. My Exorcists make a mess out of any Stormraven entering the field, because even focusing all three on it, it's clearly worth it to see the thing become a giant fireball, taking the passengers with it. I wouldn't call my Exorcists AA, but enough shots with enough strength and a good AP, and anything takes out a flier.

The damage chart for vehicles in general is terrible. In my group, we're surprised when something doesn't blow up from a penetrating hit.

 ansacs wrote:
LC/MM C:SM Stormravens IMO is priced almost perfectly. If they used it as the measuring stick to price everything else then I would be happy. The only problem with stormravens is every other loadout except for the hurrican bolter upgrade is overpriced except in the case of GK where psyammo makes the AC worthwhile.

The crimson hunter BTW is pretty overpriced. It has a worse chance of killing a stormraven even after the exarch upgrades than a stormraven has of killing it...and it is only good for AA whereas the stormraven is good for a variety of tasks. Not to mention you can take a crimson hunter out with random small arms fire if you have nothing better to do.

The vendetta could definitely use a point increase. Though honestly the helldrake and nightscythes are by far and away the worst offenders as those two can actually win games; one by killing troops the other is the best troop mobility option in the game.

I agree with you on the costs of the Crimson Hunter, Helldrake and Nightscythe, but feel the Vendetta is one of the worst culprits of undercosting.

The problem with the Crimson Hunter compared to the others is it can do two things well, but has a hard time surviving to accomplish those tasks. Without any survivabilty methods other then rendering itself useless via Jink, it will either Alpha-strike something costing less than itself and then die...or die from Interceptor Fire without doing a single thing.

Although I disagree that the CH is only good as AA. It is an amazing anti-armor unit, I feel this roll is more suited for it as it can't dogfight well with its shoddy survivability.

they are about right for what they do,

if anything they could lose 5-10 pts

I still think a lone SR is not that great of a value. They get decent to good when spammed. They are not as efficacious as units that get excellent/broken when spammed.

 Purifier wrote:

General Annoyance wrote:

The Stormraven can take a decent punishing compared to most flyers anyway, considering that most AA weapons are low strength compared to most anti vehicle weaponry.

I don't know what you consider AA weapons, but snapfiring isn't always a big problem. My Exorcists make a mess out of any Stormraven entering the field, because even focusing all three on it, it's clearly worth it to see the thing become a giant fireball, taking the passengers with it. I wouldn't call my Exorcists AA, but enough shots with enough strength and a good AP, and anything takes out a flier.

The damage chart for vehicles in general is terrible. In my group, we're surprised when something doesn't blow up from a penetrating hit.

Well, I mainly consider AA as anything with Skyfire or Interceptor.

While a lot of other weapons can also make for good AA weapons even with snap shots, they will still be generally weaker compared to, say, a missile launcher. A snap hit from something like a missile launcher is a case of good luck...

let me clarify with an example. A Chaos Space Marine Havoc squad armed with autocannons. That means you roughly get 8 or ten shots - a decent chance to hit that flyer then with at least one of those. However, autocannons are St 7, just like a Ageis Flakk cannon or a flakk missile, yet those benefit from having the Skyfire rule.

What I'm trying to say is that, if you do have a weapon that has enough shots to stand a decent chance of hitting a flyer, chances are it's going to be weaker than an anti tank weapon like a lascannon, and an AA weapon is bound to be ten times more effective. That doesn't mean you wont destroy the flyer, but it means that you will have to pump more shots into it. And because the Stormraven has a solid AV of 12 (solid for a flyer at least ) then it can suck up more of those shots than, say, my Ork Dakkajets.

Just my opinion, but I think that the greatest advantage of a flyer is the amount of effort your opponent needs to put in to destroy one.

hope that makes sense...

G.A

It does make sense, but a Stormraven is so expensive, it makes the effort worth it. Yes, regular autocannons are not super dangerous, but those are a crap shoot against any flier, not just the SR.

I think its costed either fair or slightly over costed. Not too good as a transport and other flyers are cheaper (helldrake, scythe, vendetta) but those flyers are generally seen to be pretty broken.

Are they broken or what the other fliers should be? I don't see the 6th ed fliers used much. That's a warning sign to me.

zilka86 wrote:
Because as soon as you go in hover mode ur dead meet along with any troops you have

Seriously man. When you go into hover mode its because your vehicle is not likely to get shot or assaulted. Its usually at the end of the game when there is not much left.

In 2/3 of the games I play, about half my flyers go into hover point at one point or another.

I agree. The hover mode argument is weak. It's better to load in cents and then grav chute them in. Another kick in the gonads for assault, however.

Martel732 wrote:
I agree. The hover mode argument is weak. It's better to load in cents and then grav chute them in. Another kick in the gonads for assault, however.

Its kind of funny though. This weekend I played a seer council player. I had 2 storm ravens near 2 of his serpents. He moved his serpents right under my ravens, thinking I would have to blow by him.

Instead I went into hover move, and shot the rear armor of his serpents. I also had 5 marines come out of each one with krak grenades ready to stuff in the rear of the serpent if the shooting failed -- which did happen for one of the serpents. 5 gernades hitting on 3s and penetrating on 5s is bad news for a serpent already down 2 hull points.

As mentioned, the ravens were 20" from the nearest seer council member. It basically gave 2 free serpent kills and the 2 avenger squads inside. Of course, on the following 2 turns, his seer council ate up all 10 marines that dropped