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Really love the model so far! I'm wondering if anyone knows how long it usually takes for Forge World rules to get approved. I'd love to start using him as his real unit (right now just using him as a regular Riptide), but I feel the current rules for him on there are just a bit absurd!

Id guess a couple of months minimum to several years depending on if they make it into a book or if they just release pdf updates or not.

Probably a while in this case, since the feedback on those rules is pretty universally "this is massively overpowered, start over from the beginning".

Until then couldn't you use it as:

<movie guy voice>

This holiday season experience the Riptide in a way that's:
BIGGER!
SHINIER!
AWESOMER!
...but otherwise exactly the same because it'll use the same the same Tau Codex rules.

BUT IT DOESN'T MATTER BECAUSE IT LOOKS COOL!

Riptide Reborn, NOT starring Christian Bale.

</movie guy voice>

You could use him as O'vesa until rules come out for him. Post on the FB page, you usually get a response.

Using him as O'vesa is a nice idea!

However the 107 might not be allowed for farsight enclaves in the end, the final judgment is pending, but FW has some issues with farsight armies and what is/isn't allowed from IA3 into them. (no official word yet, but they did give an unofficial "expect this")

As for when his real rules will come up, not before a new IA book. as IA3 wont be remade soon, and he does not belong in any other book in qouqe for remake.
So until there is a new "generic" IA book, or a new tau-related one, it wont happen.
(maybe they will finally do a book that is not related to IoM? chaos VS tau or something...)

 BoomWolf wrote:
Using him as O'vesa is a nice idea!

However the 107 might not be allowed for farsight enclaves in the end, the final judgment is pending, but FW has some issues with farsight armies and what is/isn't allowed from IA3 into them. (no official word yet, but they did give an unofficial "expect this")

As for when his real rules will come up, not before a new IA book. as IA3 wont be remade soon, and he does not belong in any other book in qouqe for remake.
So until there is a new "generic" IA book, or a new tau-related one, it wont happen.
(maybe they will finally do a book that is not related to IoM? chaos VS tau or something...)

Chaos vs Tau is like the least likely matchup, the Eye of Terror is like half a hostile Imperial galaxy away from the Tau empire.

FW wouldnt be an issue if you used him as Ovesa, he would be a normal riptide with IA/Fusion not the twin pulse thingies. It would just be a unique model signifying something is different about this guy.

Hmm would they really leave his rules unusable until they remake IA3 or do a new book? That would be a while... seems like such a waste for such an awesome model!

Also, I have thought about using him as O'Vesa until then. I think I'll just do that! Would that be accepted in any tournaments? Or are all tournaments very strict that each model has to be exactly what it is in the army list?

He WONT be in a new IA3.
Either another Tau-related book is coming, or a generic book.

IA3 was JUST remade.

I don't personally have much faith in Forgeworld when it comes to making Tau units. They have some silly suits with minor wargear changes, some variant broadsides with no variant rules, some larger suits of questionable use with only one weapon load per purchase, the dumbest transport I can think of, Majority T3 MC with no armor and being slowed down by it's handlers, drones that have no place, and turrets that seem like they had no idea what the hammerhead was going to be in the latest edition. The tetra is a great example of this. Prior to the update it was one of the dumbest units available with a single markerlight on a fast skimmer body and costing way too much, then updated to a heavy 4 and everyone got a couple because they were they best value for markerlights, then updated to near uselessness again because it just couldn't compete with what's already available.

When they did the update last edition they just changed how many shots each unit got and gave them FOC positions. Then they just made minor touch ups again in the latest edition from what I remember.

I'm extremely hesitant to purchase this until I actually see what they're ultimately planning. I may just end up getting it to use the arms as better looking IA's and for the extra bits. I'd probably feel really guilty about trying to use the experimental rules since it really looks like it does way too much damage for what it costs.

 Savageconvoy wrote:
They have some silly suits with minor wargear changes

Including the near-mandatory markerlight option. Seriously, unless you're playing under a "no FW" house rule it's pretty hard to justify not putting that BS 5 skyfire/interceptor markerlight on your commander.

and turrets that seem like they had no idea what the hammerhead was going to be in the latest edition.

They probably didn't. I suspect IA3 was finished and off to be printed by the time the codex was finished, and nobody could have anticipated the unbelievable stupidity of what GW did to the Tau tanks. If Tau tanks had kept their ability to shoot as fast vehicles then the new turret rules would have been a major upgrade in every way, especially with 6th edition letting you fire two weapons at cruising speed.

The tetra is a great example of this. Prior to the update it was one of the dumbest units available with a single markerlight on a fast skimmer body and costing way too much, then updated to a heavy 4 and everyone got a couple because they were they best value for markerlights, then updated to near uselessness again because it just couldn't compete with what's already available.

Actually the Tetra is an example of bad unit evaluation from you.

The original Tetra was a solid unit. It didn't have the per-point markerlight efficiency of pathfinders, but a BS 4 markerlight on a fast skimmer platform with some random extra pulse rifle shots was a decent option.
The "middle" Tetra was clearly good, and I think we all agree on that.
The new Tetra is still good. Yes, you're down from 2.666 markerlight hits to 1.5, but you get a cost reduction to make up for it and I think we all expected Tetras to get a bit of a nerf since they were the clear best option.

Then they just made minor touch ups again in the latest edition from what I remember.

What else did they need? Most of the "core" units got a pretty solid update, and Tau are so powerful right now that giving them much more of an update would probably push the army as a whole over the top.

Also, you're forgetting the flyers. Barracudas and Remoras are now awesome, and fix the only real problem with the Tau codex: the weak flyers.

I disagree on the tetras though, I lose their current version. each one is like a trio of mobile pathfinders that does not help in overwatch.
Pretty much awesome for mobile tau armies.

As for the orca, it got updated from then. got cheap enough to be worth considering. (unless you meant the manta, thats a whole other level of "because we CAN")

You have to admit the models are 10x more awesome than the GW Tau units which look terrible. That's the point of Forge World.

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
You have to admit the models are 10x more awesome than the GW Tau units which look terrible. That's the point of Forge World.

I wouldn't say they look terrible... the Fire Warriors are actually very nice looking, I like the new rail Broadside model, Hammerhead/Skyray looks fine to me... etc! I would definitely prefer it if the Crisis suits were less static looking, but some good posing skills and you can fix that fine.

 Peregrine wrote:

Including the near-mandatory markerlight option. Seriously, unless you're playing under a "no FW" house rule it's pretty hard to justify not putting that BS 5 skyfire/interceptor markerlight on your commander.

I just don't think it's really required. I barely see flyers in my area as it is and I really don't think that it's worth all that when I already have plenty of options.

Actually the Tetra is an example of bad unit evaluation from you.

The original Tetra was a solid unit. It didn't have the per-point markerlight efficiency of pathfinders, but a BS 4 markerlight on a fast skimmer platform with some random extra pulse rifle shots was a decent option.
The "middle" Tetra was clearly good, and I think we all agree on that.
The new Tetra is still good. Yes, you're down from 2.666 markerlight hits to 1.5, but you get a cost reduction to make up for it and I think we all expected Tetras to get a bit of a nerf since they were the clear best option.

I'll admit that I didn't have that much experience with the Tetra before the update since I didn't get started until well into 5th. It just didn't seem worth the price of a single markerlight on an expensive platform when marker tokens were needed in larger volume due to the rule for cover removal.

The single pulse rifle shot was negligible, since this was when you needed to be in 12" to get the second shot and then lose your D. pod bonus. I guess it wouldn't be that bad of a marker source since the only other options were rather lack luster. In the other editions it may have been more useful, since I'm not that familiar with them. However before it's update in 5th it just seemed like it was just too expensive to use in an already cost heavy codex. That and I'm pretty sure squadron rules made them pretty fragile.

Tau FW fliers are probably the only ones worth getting. T5 on some of the suits is nifty but the cost/the gear available make them....lame lol.

Tau are kinda hard to flesh out since their main codex is so strong, outside the fliers. FW should have focused on either apoc level suits (Gargantuan suits for instance, our version of a Titan basically) or expanding kroot/vespid vastly. What little they did for kroot is laughable.
Also, the Manta is just wtf worthy lol. Who the hell would field that? The points required to be able to field it, an army inside, and an army on the ground would EASILY have so many counters for that AV13 "No Hard To Hit" flier its sickening.

Some of the guys in ATT actually have Mantas, and they use them.

Its the coffe table of "kill everything remotely in the area" be sheer volume of firepower.


And for the tetra, calculate the current version-they get as many per-point marks as the pathfinders, its actually a pretty good balance between mobility, and overwatch.

 BoomWolf wrote:
I disagree on the tetras though, I lose their current version. each one is like a trio of mobile pathfinders that does not help in overwatch.
Pretty much awesome for mobile tau armies.

It can help with a PDTR.

Honestly this model is way to good. Lets say that by some absurd reason the people at FW say, "Hey this actually looks reasonable." Then if they pass it with the rules it has now, what is the process it has to go through before it can be used in tournaments. Doesn't it need to also get 40k approved? Honestly in any army with 2-4 XV104 Riptides and a "Buffcommander" the Riptides are good enough. So I'm not keeping my hopes up. Yesterday at my local tournament, I saw someone who had modeled a Riptide so it was an R'Varna. It was just a riptide with both the IA and the HBC along with no jet pack. It got taken out on the second turn by a squad of Kroot. Yes Kroot. I think that the R'Varna should come into the game (as I am a Tau player myself ) , but it needs to either be a way higher point cost, or the rules need to be tweaked. I think that it is also way overpriced right now, lol.

The R'Vana is labeled as "experimental", and by such automatically forbidden in any competitive play and meant only for casual until he gets official rules.

Honestly they just need to fix that OP double-shooting nova reactor, and its good to go.

I wonder why they don't just do that then... I think that it looks badass, and should definitely be put into the game, but why would they start with those "experimental" rules in the first place, I mean they didn't realize it was this good already??

 BoomWolf wrote:
The R'Vana is labeled as "experimental", and by such automatically forbidden in any competitive play and meant only for casual until he gets official rules.

Honestly they just need to fix that OP double-shooting nova reactor, and its good to go.

Unless they rework they weapons, which they might, making the guns more powerful, but still the same number of shots is still scary. I doubt they will remove the ability to Nova charge the weapons, since the whole point of the thing is to carry bigger guns than a Riptide.

 Commander_Farsight wrote:
I wonder why they don't just do that then... I think that it looks badass, and should definitely be put into the game, but why would they start with those "experimental" rules in the first place, I mean they didn't realize it was this good already??

The rules released by forgeworld are rather controversial.

As a rule, their playtesting is reasonably solid.

Occasionally, however, units make it through. Sabre Platforms made it to 40k Approved while remaining underpriced, hopefully the R'varna does not.

 Commander_Farsight wrote:
I wonder why they don't just do that then... I think that it looks badass, and should definitely be put into the game, but why would they start with those "experimental" rules in the first place, I mean they didn't realize it was this good already??

I am convinced this whole post is an elaborate troll. If not, and it somehow goes live as is, prepare to see everyones opinion of the use of forgeworld go from "sure its ok in a casual game" to "nope, find someone else to be your punchingbag"

As is, there is not, nor has there ever been a more op unit in the game. And I include any and all instances of chaos 3.5 dex with that statement.

 Orock wrote:

 Commander_Farsight wrote:
I wonder why they don't just do that then... I think that it looks badass, and should definitely be put into the game, but why would they start with those "experimental" rules in the first place, I mean they didn't realize it was this good already??

I am convinced this whole post is an elaborate troll. If not, and it somehow goes live as is, prepare to see everyones opinion of the use of forgeworld go from "sure its ok in a casual game" to "nope, find someone else to be your punchingbag"

As is, there is not, nor has there ever been a more op unit in the game. And I include any and all instances of chaos 3.5 dex with that statement.

Your calling the R'Varna the most OP unit in the game? I guess you have never played against an emperor battle titan.

Offial Datasheet still provided by GW for the Emperor Battle Titan. It gets 6 titian weapons as well as 2 super weapons.

 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:

 Commander_Farsight wrote:
I wonder why they don't just do that then... I think that it looks badass, and should definitely be put into the game, but why would they start with those "experimental" rules in the first place, I mean they didn't realize it was this good already??

The rules released by forgeworld are rather controversial.

As a rule, their playtesting is reasonably solid.

Occasionally, however, units make it through. Sabre Platforms made it to 40k Approved while remaining underpriced, hopefully the R'varna does not.

I feel like the R'Varna just need to be toned down a little bit. Now when I say a little bit, it still needs to have more firepower than the Riptide, but not 12 large blasts more powerful. I think that 3-4, and maybe even 5 total large blasts would be more reasonable, or a scale of 6-9 small blasts. what do you guys think? Oh, I am glad to hear that their play testing is reasonably solid because I am a Tau player myself and would love to see this thing become legal!

 Commander_Farsight wrote:

 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:

 Commander_Farsight wrote:
I wonder why they don't just do that then... I think that it looks badass, and should definitely be put into the game, but why would they start with those "experimental" rules in the first place, I mean they didn't realize it was this good already??

The rules released by forgeworld are rather controversial.

As a rule, their playtesting is reasonably solid.

Occasionally, however, units make it through. Sabre Platforms made it to 40k Approved while remaining underpriced, hopefully the R'varna does not.

I feel like the R'Varna just need to be toned down a little bit. Now when I say a little bit, it still needs to have more firepower than the Riptide, but not 12 large blasts more powerful. I think that 3-4, and maybe even 5 total large blasts would be more reasonable, or a scale of 6-9 small blasts. what do you guys think? Oh, I am glad to hear that their play testing is reasonably solid because I am a Tau player myself and would love to see this thing become legal!

12 large blast? I'm pretty sure you can only get 4, and that's only if you is you novacharge.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 Commander_Farsight wrote:

 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:

 Commander_Farsight wrote:
I wonder why they don't just do that then... I think that it looks badass, and should definitely be put into the game, but why would they start with those "experimental" rules in the first place, I mean they didn't realize it was this good already??

The rules released by forgeworld are rather controversial.

As a rule, their playtesting is reasonably solid.

Occasionally, however, units make it through. Sabre Platforms made it to 40k Approved while remaining underpriced, hopefully the R'varna does not.

I feel like the R'Varna just need to be toned down a little bit. Now when I say a little bit, it still needs to have more firepower than the Riptide, but not 12 large blasts more powerful. I think that 3-4, and maybe even 5 total large blasts would be more reasonable, or a scale of 6-9 small blasts. what do you guys think? Oh, I am glad to hear that their play testing is reasonably solid because I am a Tau player myself and would love to see this thing become legal!

12 large blast? I'm pretty sure you can only get 4, and that's only if you is you novacharge.

I think he is referring to 3 hits per large blast on very bulky models.

You know I doubt people would complain as much if they set the weapon AP to 4. This would not change the vehicle hunting abilities but it would take the pressure off the infantry/bikes a bit. I personally think if they did this and put a restriction that it cannot be joined by IC it would about fix it.