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So ive been reading lately about the Necrons. Mainly through various sites like wh40k wiki and lexi, ive also read the Fall of Damnos book. It has me thinking, can the Necron be beaten by the IoM? Or anyone else for that matter. Everything i read paints the picture of a huge force that comes outta the very ground, whose infantrymens gauss rifles can take out a tank or space marine, its nearly impossible to truly kill them instead of phase out, they can null psykers,there are near limitless numbers, and various other strongpoints to their armies. So.... if wh40K was a story and not a setting, would they be whats ends all life? Ive read threads ab what faction would win and most people say others than the necrons, so my question is why? Do they have weaknesses? It just seems to me that they are literally bulletproof, your thoughts?

We have a topic on this, just a few posts down...

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/564697.page

The 'Nids could probably do it, given their effectively infinite numbers. There's only some of a galaxy's worth of Necrons, but there's several galaxies worth of 'Nids.

 Troike wrote:
The 'Nids could probably do it, given their effectively infinite numbers. There's only some of a galaxy's worth of Necrons, but there's several galaxies worth of 'Nids.

I've always thought this, but from thinking about Necron Fleets, I think they could just wipe Tyranids out at range consistently.

Of course they can.


For one, the Necrons are not a united race. They have many internal factions and conflicts which prevent their total domination.

Second, many Tomb Worlds were damaged in the aeons since they went to sleep.

The Imperium has destroyed many Tomb Worlds since the Necrons have begun waking up. Cyclonic torpedoes wreck anything. Once the power source for a Tomb is destroyed everything shuts down.

Orks certainly wouldn't lose.

Melta weapons can destroy individual Necrons, well at least they used to in fluff. Not sure if that was retconned or not though.

I am of the mind that Chaos is still the biggest hitter out there, even if GW doesn't think so, and consequently is the only thing out there that could realistically give the Necrons a run for their money.

Case in point: If you want to beat Chaos, you've gotta go to the Warp and try it, something that nobody can do without succumbing to corruption, Necrons included. There is actually a story in the Daemons Codex that explains how an incident where the Necrons wake up on Colchis to find their planet's inner fires are dead. So they decide to take a stroll down to the planets core and find a Daemon who takes the form of an armored leech with a Warp Vortex for a head. Beublghor (the warp leech) crushes tunnels on the Necrons, unleashes hordes of Bloodthirsters and slaughters Oltep Dynasty lords, where "their metal skulls are still heaped deep within the planet's cold womb."

So yeah, the Necrons can be beat. It's just a matter of figuring out how to do it.

The general consensus seems to be "Kill them in their sleep," and "Take out their power sources." Do that and the machines die, for good because the power cannot be turned back on once it has left their lifeless shells. This sounds contradictory to what is happening now, except that the Necrons still have power in them, even while they sleep. This is different from having the power completely cut out of them.

Oh, my apologies, i didnt see the other thread

 TheRedWingArmada wrote:
I am of the mind that Chaos is still the biggest hitter out there, even if GW doesn't think so, and consequently is the only thing out there that could realistically give the Necrons a run for their money.

Case in point: If you want to beat Chaos, you've gotta go to the Warp and try it, something that nobody can do without succumbing to corruption, Necrons included. There is actually a story in the Daemons Codex that explains how an incident where the Necrons wake up on Colchis to find their planet's inner fires are dead. So they decide to take a stroll down to the planets core and find a Daemon who takes the form of an armored leech with a Warp Vortex for a head. Beublghor (the warp leech) crushes tunnels on the Necrons, unleashes hordes of Bloodthirsters and slaughters Oltep Dynasty lords, where "their metal skulls are still heaped deep within the planet's cold womb."

So yeah, the Necrons can be beat. It's just a matter of figuring out how to do it.

The general consensus seems to be "Kill them in their sleep," and "Take out their power sources." Do that and the machines die, for good because the power cannot be turned back on once it has left their lifeless shells. This sounds contradictory to what is happening now, except that the Necrons still have power in them, even while they sleep. This is different from having the power completely cut out of them.

Tome of Fate tells us that Necron tech just gives Chaos "Corruption" the finger. Also the Necrons have the ability to shut the warp down. Both locally and over large areas.

 Stonerhino wrote:

 TheRedWingArmada wrote:
I am of the mind that Chaos is still the biggest hitter out there, even if GW doesn't think so, and consequently is the only thing out there that could realistically give the Necrons a run for their money.

Case in point: If you want to beat Chaos, you've gotta go to the Warp and try it, something that nobody can do without succumbing to corruption, Necrons included. There is actually a story in the Daemons Codex that explains how an incident where the Necrons wake up on Colchis to find their planet's inner fires are dead. So they decide to take a stroll down to the planets core and find a Daemon who takes the form of an armored leech with a Warp Vortex for a head. Beublghor (the warp leech) crushes tunnels on the Necrons, unleashes hordes of Bloodthirsters and slaughters Oltep Dynasty lords, where "their metal skulls are still heaped deep within the planet's cold womb."

So yeah, the Necrons can be beat. It's just a matter of figuring out how to do it.

The general consensus seems to be "Kill them in their sleep," and "Take out their power sources." Do that and the machines die, for good because the power cannot be turned back on once it has left their lifeless shells. This sounds contradictory to what is happening now, except that the Necrons still have power in them, even while they sleep. This is different from having the power completely cut out of them.

Tome of Fate tells us that Necron tech just gives Chaos "Corruption" the finger. Also the Necrons have the ability to shut the warp down. Both locally and over large areas.

However, the current Necron Codex says that "To the Daemons of the warp, such technological conjurings are merely another flavour of existence to be corrupted and devoured". I agree that it SHOULD give Corruption the finger, but alas. I thought there was a rule in the old Codex about Necrodermis and that it couldn't be corrupted via Chaos Spawn, because living metal was just better than that, but I can't actually find the rule now, if it ever existed.

 Stonerhino wrote:

 TheRedWingArmada wrote:
I am of the mind that Chaos is still the biggest hitter out there, even if GW doesn't think so, and consequently is the only thing out there that could realistically give the Necrons a run for their money.

Case in point: If you want to beat Chaos, you've gotta go to the Warp and try it, something that nobody can do without succumbing to corruption, Necrons included. There is actually a story in the Daemons Codex that explains how an incident where the Necrons wake up on Colchis to find their planet's inner fires are dead. So they decide to take a stroll down to the planets core and find a Daemon who takes the form of an armored leech with a Warp Vortex for a head. Beublghor (the warp leech) crushes tunnels on the Necrons, unleashes hordes of Bloodthirsters and slaughters Oltep Dynasty lords, where "their metal skulls are still heaped deep within the planet's cold womb."

So yeah, the Necrons can be beat. It's just a matter of figuring out how to do it.

The general consensus seems to be "Kill them in their sleep," and "Take out their power sources." Do that and the machines die, for good because the power cannot be turned back on once it has left their lifeless shells. This sounds contradictory to what is happening now, except that the Necrons still have power in them, even while they sleep. This is different from having the power completely cut out of them.

Tome of Fate tells us that Necron tech just gives Chaos "Corruption" the finger. Also the Necrons have the ability to shut the warp down. Both locally and over large areas.

Yeah, pretty much. The Necrons were in the process of completely cutting of the warp from real space at one point. This would destroy Chaos, without them having to go to the warp.

However, the current Necron Codex says that "To the Daemons of the warp, such technological conjurings are merely another flavour of existence to be corrupted and devoured". I agree that it SHOULD give Corruption the finger, but alas. I thought there was a rule in the old Codex about Necrodermis and that it couldn't be corrupted via Chaos Spawn, because living metal was just better than that, but I can't actually find the rule now, if it ever existed.

The Current codex also talks about Null field Matrixs, which pretty much phase Daemons out of existence.

Tome of Fate has a lot more information on the Necrons and corruption. They are not completely incorruptible, but it is very very difficult, and they are immune to a lot of things that the frailer races suffer from.

Null Field Matrices are what defend the Tomb/Tomb Worlds from Warp predations... but they don't do gak to someone flying up and firing a cyclonic torpedo.

The Necrons have four major threats. The Eldar, though equipped to deal with the Necrons, are too few and too scattered to pose a serious problem.

The Tyranids are one race that can give the Necrons a run for their money, and have been shown to devour Tomb Worlds.

Chaos is another race of limitless forces that can twist the Necrons into something... other.

Advancing madness and insanity is the foe of all sentient Necrons. The Silent King himself comments that time is perhaps the greatest foe of the Necrons.

And, last but not least, themselves. Necron Dynasties do not get along, and when one Dynasty destroys another, it reprograms its Resurrection Machines to imprint loyalty to the victorious Dynasty on all the surviving models, and to also re-cast their Necrodermis to bear the symbols of the new Dynasty. The Phaerons and nobles of the defeated Dynasty are probably boxed, or put into less-advanced bodies so that their consciousness is lost.

 Sasori wrote:

 Stonerhino wrote:

 TheRedWingArmada wrote:
I am of the mind that Chaos is still the biggest hitter out there, even if GW doesn't think so, and consequently is the only thing out there that could realistically give the Necrons a run for their money.

Case in point: If you want to beat Chaos, you've gotta go to the Warp and try it, something that nobody can do without succumbing to corruption, Necrons included. There is actually a story in the Daemons Codex that explains how an incident where the Necrons wake up on Colchis to find their planet's inner fires are dead. So they decide to take a stroll down to the planets core and find a Daemon who takes the form of an armored leech with a Warp Vortex for a head. Beublghor (the warp leech) crushes tunnels on the Necrons, unleashes hordes of Bloodthirsters and slaughters Oltep Dynasty lords, where "their metal skulls are still heaped deep within the planet's cold womb."

So yeah, the Necrons can be beat. It's just a matter of figuring out how to do it.

The general consensus seems to be "Kill them in their sleep," and "Take out their power sources." Do that and the machines die, for good because the power cannot be turned back on once it has left their lifeless shells. This sounds contradictory to what is happening now, except that the Necrons still have power in them, even while they sleep. This is different from having the power completely cut out of them.

Tome of Fate tells us that Necron tech just gives Chaos "Corruption" the finger. Also the Necrons have the ability to shut the warp down. Both locally and over large areas.

Yeah, pretty much. The Necrons were in the process of completely cutting of the warp from real space at one point. This would destroy Chaos, without them having to go to the warp.

However, the current Necron Codex says that "To the Daemons of the warp, such technological conjurings are merely another flavour of existence to be corrupted and devoured". I agree that it SHOULD give Corruption the finger, but alas. I thought there was a rule in the old Codex about Necrodermis and that it couldn't be corrupted via Chaos Spawn, because living metal was just better than that, but I can't actually find the rule now, if it ever existed.

The Current codex also talks about Null field Matrixs, which pretty much phase Daemons out of existence.

Tome of Fate has a lot more information on the Necrons and corruption. They are not completely incorruptible, but it is very very difficult, and they are immune to a lot of things that the frailer races suffer from.

I'm starting to feel the plot-armor come on. XD

Personally, as the Warp is, for lack of a better expression, pure energy, and that is what powers the Necrons, then there should be some pretty grave hiccups. That said, it would make sense that the Necrons would be working on a way or have had away to combat their closest rivals for universal dominance, however I would argue that the manipulations of Chaos in lesser races, conspiring against the Necrons themselves, probably helped Chaos prevent that master-stroke from coming to effect. And we can call that luck if you want, but that's a measure of planning.

In my mind, I see the Necrons and Chaos powers as possibly the two oldest presences in the universe, as old as C'tan and Old Ones, War on Heaven and all of that mess. Which would lead me to believe that there is a greater rivalry there, while not so personal as say Eldar v. Crons, but still just as deadly and livid.

It's like the difference between two rivals and two predators. Two rivals may have a dialogue and some conscious scheming and what not, but two predators have an instinctual dread, understanding and respect of one another. THAT'S how it should go. But like I said above, plot armor. lol

I'm starting to feel the plot-armor come on. XD

Personally, as the Warp is, for lack of a better expression, pure energy, and that is what powers the Necrons, then there should be some pretty grave hiccups. That said, it would make sense that the Necrons would be working on a way or have had away to combat their closest rivals for universal dominance, however I would argue that the manipulations of Chaos in lesser races, conspiring against the Necrons themselves, probably helped Chaos prevent that master-stroke from coming to effect. And we can call that luck if you want, but that's a measure of planning.

In my mind, I see the Necrons and Chaos powers as possibly the two oldest presences in the universe, as old as C'tan and Old Ones, War on Heaven and all of that mess. Which would lead me to believe that there is a greater rivalry there, while not so personal as say Eldar v. Crons, but still just as deadly and livid.

It's like the difference between two rivals and two predators. Two rivals may have a dialogue and some conscious scheming and what not, but two predators have an instinctual dread, understanding and respect of one another. THAT'S how it should go. But like I said above, plot armor. lol

The Necrons were in the process of cutting of the Warp, before the Chaos Gods even existed. Their Hibernation is what stopped it from being complete, and with the current state of the Dyansties, it is probably not to high on the priority list.

Remember, the War in Heaven is actually what started to turn the Warp from peaceful, into the state it is.

Yeah, GW gave us "birthdates" for all of the Chaos Gods, and while time does not exist in the Warp, yadda yadda....

.... apparently it does to GW, because none of the Ruinous Powers had anything happening during the War in Heaven because they didn't exist yet. They were Sirs and Madams Not-Appearing-In-This-Battle. Daemons and the like didn't even begin to make an appearance until the very end, and even that is a matter of interpretation.

And while the Necrons run on "energy", it is a physical energy, like electricity, not gaseous mood-slime like the Warp. Just because you shut off the Warp does not mean a battery stops working.

 Psienesis wrote:
Null Field Matrices are what defend the Tomb/Tomb Worlds from Warp predations... but they don't do gak to someone flying up and firing a cyclonic torpedo.

The Necrons have four major threats. The Eldar, though equipped to deal with the Necrons, are too few and too scattered to pose a serious problem.

The Tyranids are one race that can give the Necrons a run for their money, and have been shown to devour Tomb Worlds.

Chaos is another race of limitless forces that can twist the Necrons into something... other.

Advancing madness and insanity is the foe of all sentient Necrons. The Silent King himself comments that time is perhaps the greatest foe of the Necrons.

And, last but not least, themselves. Necron Dynasties do not get along, and when one Dynasty destroys another, it reprograms its Resurrection Machines to imprint loyalty to the victorious Dynasty on all the surviving models, and to also re-cast their Necrodermis to bear the symbols of the new Dynasty. The Phaerons and nobles of the defeated Dynasty are probably boxed, or put into less-advanced bodies so that their consciousness is lost.

The Tyranids? Really? This comes into an argument I had in my old RP forums. Which is better? Technology or Biology?

Here is how the fight actually breaks down: Are nanomachines better replicators/converters or is biological mass better replicators/converters?

Because they're both doing essentially the same thing, it just comes down to who can do it faster and what materials can they feed off of? Now, in our universe, the machines should have won hardcore because nanomachines could eat and convert anything, including biomass. So the Tyranids die in that case. But I worked a character out of the Zerg (this was before I knew anything about WH40K which was funny because my Zerg "Lord" got to fight with [on the same side] an Ork Warboss one time. It was epic. XD) who, if we took the way the Zerg were written (like the Tyranids really), then they were supposed to be biologically perfect, which meant highly adaptive, highly consumptive and not limited to biological or innert matter. On top of that, because biology doesn't have protocol and what not to go through, it can just act in response to a nanotech invasion, rather than have to send the signal through the whole core.

So it became a matter of speed in their rolls as well. Could the nanomachines adapt faster than the Zerg (in this case?) Turns out, no, because despite how advanced the nanotech was (and it was advanced, with personal shielding and everything. Our tech was hardcore and would've rolled the 40k universe over. No joke) the biological advantages of my Zerg lord were just too ridiculously perfected, so that when a Zerg ate a nanobot, it became Zerg+Nanobot, which could overwhelm the other nanobots with their own signals. And all the nanobot could hope to do was severe the psychic connections with the Zerg, poison it (which they adapted to) or any other number of things that would just make a Zerg independent and force it to act in it's own natural way.

Is this concrete? HELL NO! This fight rages on to this day. Which is better? Perfect technology or perfect biology? I answered this with my character by having his Zerg contain both, which really is the answer. They are both weak on their own, but together they are unstoppable.

Bringing this full circle, perhaps if the Tyranids and Necrons engaged, it would just create a whole new race that balances out both of their instabilities?

I thought Tyranid Hive Fleets intentionally ignored or went around Necron Tomb worlds.

 Psienesis wrote:
Yeah, GW gave us "birthdates" for all of the Chaos Gods, and while time does not exist in the Warp, yadda yadda....

.... apparently it does to GW, because none of the Ruinous Powers had anything happening during the War in Heaven because they didn't exist yet. They were Sirs and Madams Not-Appearing-In-This-Battle. Daemons and the like didn't even begin to make an appearance until the very end, and even that is a matter of interpretation.

And while the Necrons run on "energy", it is a physical energy, like electricity, not gaseous mood-slime like the Warp. Just because you shut off the Warp does not mean a battery stops working.

Yeah yeah yeah, I've heard and that irks me to no end, especially when we throw out that line "Time has no meaning in the Warp." While I could make sense out of Chaos' role in the War on Heaven (which I'm not even that familiar with to begin with), it just doesn't work right from a logical perspective.

I could accept that the Warp and all of it's Daemons and Gods existed at that time, but were not allowed to join but.....ugh. That whole plot-hook just makes my head hurt. Particularly with the Chaos Gods having "birth days." So stupid when you consider that the nature of the Warp Gods is to constantly change per the nature of the Warp. So who knows how many incarnations of Nurgle there have been, or how many times Nurgle has gone from a bloated fat body of Giggling Life to say, the necrotic form of Mortarion as an imaciated skeleton of Death.

THAT would be a better hook than to say, "Well....sure the Warp is ETERNAL... but here is where it started." What? It's always been and never been, but here is the start? Really? I think not, good sirs.

The Null Field Matrix shuts the hive mind down and plays hell with the Tyranids. So the Tyranids avoid active Tomb Worlds protected by them.

The warp is timeless but has "Events" such as the creation of the gods. Because of how the warp works. It is possible to find areas of the warp that the Chaos Gods are not born yet. Right next to a spot in the warp that the Chaos Gods always existed. Maybe even having one area inside of the other.

If you need to justify why the Chaos Gods did not interfer with the war in heaven. Then consider that they were alive but at that time they where not strong enough to actually effect the war. Or better didn't want to effect it because changes then could change the timeline and result in their never being born.

What I hate most about GW's Chaos God stories is how 3 out of 4 of them were created by humanity.

Ghengis Khan killed a lot of people... he didn't kill *that* many people.

The Black Plague killed a lot of people... it didn't kill *that* many people.

And are humans the only race in the galaxy that plots and schemes? I would think not.

.... but, also, I think the story about Tyranids avoiding Tomb Worlds goes back to the vision most people (and GW authors, apparently) have of Tomb Worlds being lifeless deserts. The fight with the Necrons is going to result in a net-loss of biomass for the Hive Fleet, and so it is avoided as being "not worth the hassle". Though there are other stories of sleeping Tombs being devoured, so who knows?