Police waited six minutes before entering Newtown during shooting

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**Frazzled**

Shooting was still going on in the first minute but police didn't enter for another five minutes.
http://www.sfgate.com/local/article/Newtown-report-offers-chilling-details-5010555.php#page-1

NEWTOWN -- In the chaotic response to the deadliest grade-school shooting in U.S. history, local police officers waited about six minutes before entering Sandy Hook Elementary School, investigators revealed Monday in chilling new report that had been closely guarded.

Gunfire could still be heard in the background during the first minute the officers were on scene, with another five minutes passing until they ventured into the school through a boiler room and cafeteria, according to the 43-page report released by Danbury State's Attorney Stephen J. Sedensky III .
The timeline is the product of an 11-month -- and at times controversial -- investigation that yielded new details about the Dec. 14, 2012, massacre, but stopped short of establishing a motive.

"The obvious question that remains is: `Why did the shooter murder twenty-seven people, including twenty children?' " the report stated. "Unfortunately, that question may never be answered conclusively, despite the collection of extensive background information on the shooter through a multitude of interviews and other sources. The evidence clearly shows that the shooter planned his actions, including the taking of his own life, but there is no clear indication why he did so, or why he targeted Sandy Hook Elementary School."

Newtown Police Union President Scott Ruszczyk stood by the response of law enforcement officers in an interview Monday with Hearst Connecticut Newspapers.

"To show up at an active-shooter situation and pull up to the front door is asinine. It increases the risk to the officer," Ruszczyk said.

Said Ruszczyk: The report "doesn't say anything we didn't expect it to say.

"Ultimately, it boils down to the fact there was a rapid response."

Global positioning system data analyzed by investigators placed the sociopathic shooter, Adam Lanza, 20, on a scouting trip in the vicinity of several local elementary schools the day before his shooting spree, including his eventual target, where he was once a student.

A recluse who studied the methods of other mass murders such as the 1999 Columbine High School shooting and violent video games, Lanza was thin and gaunt, standing 6 feet tall and weighing just 112 pounds.

He took his own life with a single gunshot from a Glock 20 semi-automatic pistol.

"It is known that the shooter had significant mental health issues that affected his ability to live a normal life and to interact with others, even those to whom he should have been close," the report stated. "As an adult, he did not recognize or help himself deal with those issues. What contribution this made to the shootings, if any, is unknown as those mental health professionals who saw him did not see anything that would have predicted his future behavior."

Twenty children, none of them older than 7, and six adult females died in the shooting, including teacher and Stratford native Victoria Soto, 27, who was posthumously awarded the Presidential Citizens Medal for shielding her students from the gunfire.

Nine children were able to escape Soto's classroom, and another two hid in a bathroom until they were found alive by police, according to the report.

"As we close in on the end of a very difficult year, the releasing of this report is yet another blow that our family has been dealt," Soto's family said in a statement. "While others search for the answer as to why this happened, we search for the how. How can we live without Vicki? How do we celebrate Christmas without Vicki? How do we go on every day missing a piece of our family? Those are the questions we seek the answers for. There is nothing in the report that will answer those for us."

Newtown First Selectman Pat Llodra declined to comment on the report until she read the document, which purposely omitted graphic descriptions of the victims and photographs from the crime scene.

**Ouze**

I wonder why the delay. Post-Columbine should have had the first officer on the scene inside immediately and hunting the active shooter.

**Ensis Ferrae**

Ouze wrote:
I wonder why the delay. Post-Columbine should have had the first officer on the scene inside immediately and hunting the active shooter.

We may never know for sure, but perhaps due to being a rather small town, some of the responding officers had kids inside? I know that would cause me to delay some, but I have the comfort and luxury (if you want to call it that) of being a soldier with actual combat experience, etc.

And really the first officers on the scene should have entered together (never go into a possible gun fight alone), and radioed out to the next officers where they had covered/cleared to get a better picture of what was going on.

**SlaveToDorkness**

Probably for threat assessment and tactical planning. The police don't really just run into buildings blindly.

He shot himself within a minute of the police's arrival so the additional time changed nothing.

**Frazzled**

Ensis Ferrae wrote:
Ouze wrote:
I wonder why the delay. Post-Columbine should have had the first officer on the scene inside immediately and hunting the active shooter.

We may never know for sure, but perhaps due to being a rather small town, some of the responding officers had kids inside? I know that would cause me to delay some, but I have the comfort and luxury (if you want to call it that) of being a soldier with actual combat experience, etc.

And really the first officers on the scene should have entered together (never go into a possible gun fight alone), and radioed out to the next officers where they had covered/cleared to get a better picture of what was going on.

Horse gak. If you have kids in thats going to make you want to go in fast to get your kids. When we had kids at the elementary across the street, the wife told me in no uncertain terms if she heard something she would go running.

**Ouze**

SlaveToDorkness wrote:
Probably for threat assessment and tactical planning. The police don't really just run into buildings blindly.

This is 100% the opposite of current Active Shooter doctrine.

Not that I'm being hard on them over those few minutes; like you said, it would not have mattered. Just curious why.

**d-usa**

Ouze wrote:
SlaveToDorkness wrote:
Probably for threat assessment and tactical planning. The police don't really just run into buildings blindly.

This is 100% the opposite of current Active Shooter doctrine.

Not that I'm being hard on them over those few minutes; like you said, it would not have mattered. Just curious why.

How many small towns have an "Active Shooter Doctrine" vs an "this will never happen to us, we are a small town Doctrine"?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ouze wrote:

Not that I'm being hard on them over those few minutes; like you said, it would not have mattered. Just curious why.

From a medical standpoint I wonder if being able to go in 5 minutes earlier to start treating kids would have made a difference?

But then the small town factor also makes me wonder if those 5 minutes would have made a difference if you can't get the manpower to adequately treat a mass-casualty scene like that in those 5 minutes.

**ScootyPuffJunior**

All this does is fan the flames of the Alex Jones-type tinfoil hat false flag conspiracy nuts. I'm no expert in police tactics, but I know officers just don't barge blindly in to an active shooter scene. This is a nonissue.

**hotsauceman1**

Ouze wrote:
I wonder why the delay. Post-Columbine should have had the first officer on the scene inside immediately and
hunting the active shooter
.

To me, that sounds like a bad idea, police are not people who go into buildings and hunt for people like that, atleast ot Beat cops, which they probably where.
What tok so long is that the dispatchers where assessing the situation.

**Frazzled**

Why not?

Active shooter in a fething elementary school? You go in.

**djones520**

Frazzled wrote:
Why not?

Active shooter in a fething elementary school? You go in.

Yes. As others said, even if the shooting had stopped, there are children still laying there bleeding on the ground. How many could have survived had they gotten aid 4 minutes sooner?

**chaos0xomega**

Devils advocate: The "first officers" was literally just one or two officers, who were waiting for backup and tactically planning the response in the meantime. Pretty sure they aren't going to send beat cops into an active shooting without any sort of backup or a plan... real life ain't hollywood.

**Ouze**

chaos0xomega wrote:
Pretty sure they aren't going to send beat cops into an active shooting without any sort of backup or a plan... real life ain't hollywood.

This is exactly what modern doctrine recommends, as well as the Department of Justice. It's not "hollywood", it's the reality.

Obviously as a small department they have limited training budget, especially for such a nightmare, unlikely scenario, of course.

**Frazzled**

chaos0xomega wrote:
Devils advocate: The "first officers" was literally just one or two officers, who were waiting for backup and tactically planning the response in the meantime. Pretty sure they aren't going to send beat cops into an active shooting without any sort of backup or a plan... real life ain't hollywood.

Real life is much worse.
Thats what you get paid for. I believe its what the officers at the LA airport did as well as those at the Navy location did. They went in as quickly as possible.
"tactically planning" means waiting until the shooting stops.

The practice of school lockdown and "shelter in place" is a recipe for slaughter.

**LordofHats**

I like how the article compounds palying video games with the Columbine shooting in an article about a report that declared video games had nothing to do with the shooting.

Good job media.

**Ouze**

LordofHats wrote:
I like how the article compounds palying video games with the Columbine shooting in an article about a report that declared video games had nothing to do with the shooting.

How many fatalities must we endure before we finally ban Dance Dance Revolution?

**LordofHats**

Ouze wrote:
LordofHats wrote:
I like how the article compounds palying video games with the Columbine shooting in an article about a report that declared video games had nothing to do with the shooting.

How many fatalities must we endure before we finally ban Dance Dance Revolution?

More importantly, how long until be ban hiking with your father? Who hikes in this day and age? Crazy people that's who!

**Easy E**

First off: Thanks for linking me here. So the prosecutors report was released about the events at Sandy Hook Elementary.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2013/11/25/sandy_hook_final_report_year_long_investigation_can_t_say_why_adam_lanza.html

The full report is also at the above link.

If you recall, at the time of the shooting the gun lobby was busy trying to blame violent video games, the video game industry was blaming the mental health industry, and everyone was pointing fingers all around. However, the report highlights one very interesting thing about the shooter, he did love to play video games and his favorite one was....

Lanza's love of "Dance Dance Revolution":

The shooter liked to play a game called “Dance Dance Revolution” (DDR), which is a music video game in which the player stands on a platform, watches a video screen and moves his feet as directed by the video. A home version of this was seen and photographed in the shooter’s home. Several videos of him playing DDR were found on digital media taken from the home.
The GPS found in the home and reportedly belonging to the shooter indicated that he regularly went to the area of a theater that had a commercial version of the DDR game in the lobby. In 2011 and up until a month before December 14, 2012, the shooter went to the theater and played the game. He went most every Friday through Sunday and played the game for four to ten hours.
An acquaintance of the shooter from 2011 to June 2012 said that the shooter and the acquaintance played DDR quite a bit. They would play the game and occasionally see a movie. They did not play first person shooter games at the theater. The shooter had stamina for DDR and never appeared winded unless really exhausted.

I guess we can stop blaming violent video games in this case. Although, the game the shooter played does seem to espouse a "revolutionary" doctrine that could lead to instability. I think the movie and video game industry have a pretty solid leg to stand -on that they had nothing to do with this particular crazed shooter.

**Frazzled**

No I have no problem still blaming video games for many many things. However the real issue is he was crazy and no one is addressing the state of the mental health industry in this country, which is the real situation.

He has the same kind of crazy eyes a young Charles Manson had. Yerp.

**streamdragon**

Easy E wrote:
I guess we can stop blaming violent video games in this case.

You would think that, but

**Tibbsy**

LordofHats wrote:
Ouze wrote:
LordofHats wrote:
I like how the article compounds palying video games with the Columbine shooting in an article about a report that declared video games had nothing to do with the shooting.

How many fatalities must we endure before we finally ban Dance Dance Revolution?

More importantly, how long until be ban hiking with your father? Who hikes in this day and age? Crazy people that's who!

>_>
<_<

*raises hand*

Dammit... You caught me...

**Ouze**

Easy E wrote:
I guess we can stop blaming violent video games in this case.

Maybe in this case, sure. But the other day, I was at the airport. Some kid saw a chopper at the tarmac, elbowed the pilot out of the way, jumped in, took it off about 50 feet, turned it sideways, and crashed it while shooting off flares the whole time. Someone at DICE needs to answer for what they are teaching these kids.

**-Shrike-**

streamdragon wrote:
Easy E wrote:
I guess we can stop blaming violent video games in this case.
You would think that, but

This is the internet! Blame everything!

Don't have the time to read through the report, but does it mention the number of policemen who arrived first?

**Dreadclaw69**

Frazzled wrote:
No I have no problem still blaming video games for many many things. However the real issue is he was crazy and no one is addressing the state of the mental health industry in this country, which is the real situation.

He has the same kind of crazy eyes a young Charles Manson had. Yerp.

That requires actual effort, constructive dialogue, long term investment and monitoring. It is so much easier to just point the finger and assign blame.

**hotsauceman1**

I leanre somthing from shootings TBH. people will point blame, but we wont do anything 'bout it

**LordofHats**

hotsauceman1 wrote:
I leanre somthing from life's problemsTBH. people will point blame, but we wont do anything 'bout it

Just thought I'd expand on your idea there

**Alfndrate**

Easy E wrote:
*snip*

DDR is a murder simulator!

**ScootyPuffJunior**

Ouze wrote:
Easy E wrote:
I guess we can stop blaming violent video games in this case.

Maybe in this case, sure. But the other day, I was at the airport. Some kid saw a chopper at the tarmac, elbowed the pilot out of the way, jumped in, took it off about 50 feet, turned it sideways, and crashed it while shooting off flares the whole time. Someone at DICE needs to answer for what they are teaching these kids.

That kid must have learned from watching me try to fly a helicopter in BF4...

**Easy E**

Alfndrate wrote:
Easy E wrote:
*snip*

DDR is a murder simulator!

I think it is time we put in place the Dance, Dance Counter-Revolution! Muerte a la Revolucion!

**Ahtman**

Alfndrate wrote:
Easy E wrote:
*snip*

DDR is a murder simulator!

It is the deep plot, compelling characters, and organic story growth that makes it so popular, and so dangerous.