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So don't know of this has come up before but the basic rulebook states that true LOS is determined from a model's eyes, so like other discussions where you can't shoot over an ADL if your model is prone, if I were to charge your model from behind would you be able to fire overwatch??? If a model's back is facing me then how can It draw LOS from its EYES to me???

Please note I generally don't play it this way was just a friendly discussion that came up and i thought i would ask what ya'll thought.

Modle has 360 los there is no behind. Also if you can see them how did you charge them? It works both ways.

The rules tend to assume infantry have a 360 degree line of sight. Otherwise issues like this start occurring. (And other things like no one in a helmet can fire and so on crop up as related issues)

Allow me to begin with an apology but I am at work so I do not have page numbers to quote to make it easier.

Within the Movement Phase section of the rules is a line informing us that the way a model faces after being moved will not effect the their ability to charge or shoot during other phases. This line can be quoted as permission to ignore the fact a model can not 'see' out the back of their heads, as it out-right states that the models facing can not effect the outcome of a Shooting attack. By denying the ability to even carry out a shooting attack simply because the model is facing the wrong way, then we have ended up violating this sentence as we have effected the outcome based solely on what direction the model ended up facing when it ended it's Movement Phase.

Another section that is quoted as evidence a model can look out the back of it's own head is within the Line of Sight rules themselves. These rules inform us that Line of Sight can be drawn through certain things, in particular through models in the same unit. This argument involves a little bit of logical conclusions, which is dangerous with Game Workshop's version of logic, but doesn't break anything in it's application: Because a model is part of the unit, and the entire unit is ignored when one draws the line to work out what is 'seen,' the model has permission to draw line of sight through itself. This means it doesn't matter that the model's own head is blocking Line of Sight to it's eyes, the line can be successfully drawn through the models own head.

Just two of the pro side's arguments that are very strong.

To back up JinkDragon: "There is one important exception to the rules for line of sight. Firing models can always draw line of sight through members of their own unit just as if they were not there." - Own Unit, page 8

A model is part of its own unit, so it may draw line of sight through itself.

 PrinceRaven wrote:
To back up JinkDragon: "There is one important exception to the rules for line of sight. Firing models can always draw line of sight through members of their own unit just as if they were not there." - Own Unit, page 8

A model is part of its own unit, so it may draw line of sight through itself.

And to counter that:

p8 wrote:On those other occasions, where it's not entirely obvious whether or not one unit can see another, the player will have to stoop over the battlefield and look from behind the model's head for a 'model's eyeview'.

If you're looking from behind the model's head you cannot be looking behind the model. Kind of impossible you see.

The best argument for a 360 degree view is what Jinx mentioned -

p10 wrote:Whilst the direction a model is facing won't impact its ability to shoot or charge into combat later in the turn, it's always better to have it facing towards the enemy, just as it would on a real battlefield.

rigeld2 wrote:

p8 wrote:On those other occasions, where it's not entirely obvious whether or not one unit can see another, the player will have to stoop over the battlefield and look from behind the model's head for a 'model's eyeview'.

If you're looking from behind the model's head you cannot be looking behind the model. Kind of impossible you see.

Behind is subjective.

You can be behind the model even if it is facing you. It all depends on what direction you are looking.

Pg 10 turning and facing "...whilst the direction a model is facing won't impact its ability to shoot or charge later in the turn..."

Case closed thank you everyone. Still gotta love how the writers at GW can't write solid rules it's all here is a rule an an exception and an exception to the exception which breaks the exception lol. Maybe that is their whole ploy, to keep us guessing and debating thus we still feed the machine lol sry for the rant.

 DeathReaper wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

p8 wrote:On those other occasions, where it's not entirely obvious whether or not one unit can see another, the player will have to stoop over the battlefield and look from behind the model's head for a 'model's eyeview'.

If you're looking from behind the model's head you cannot be looking behind the model. Kind of impossible you see.

Behind is subjective.

You can be behind the model even if it is facing you. It all depends on what direction you are looking.

No - if the model is facing you then you are in front of it. It's not subjective at all.

rigeld2 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

p8 wrote:On those other occasions, where it's not entirely obvious whether or not one unit can see another, the player will have to stoop over the battlefield and look from behind the model's head for a 'model's eyeview'.

If you're looking from behind the model's head you cannot be looking behind the model. Kind of impossible you see.

Behind is subjective.

You can be behind the model even if it is facing you. It all depends on what direction you are looking.

No - if the model is facing you then you are in front of it. It's not subjective at all.

from the models point of view you are in front of it.

From your point of view looking towards the target unit you are behind the model since the model is in the way...

Subjective depending on point of view.

I remember playing back in the day when models did have a field of view. It was always careful facing and placement.