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How do you handle a situation when two players are technically rolling at the same time...but the order matters? That's a confusing question, but the following two examples have recently come up in my games:

1. Before the game, while rolling for psychic powers, I rolled Invisibility. My Eldar opponent saw this roll and subsequently chose his primaris (Conceal/Reveal) to counter my stealth and shrouded. AFAIK, players roll for psychic powers at the same time. My psychic power rolls shouldn't have any effect on what he chooses.

2. Two characters with unwieldy weapons are fighting in a challenge, so we're attacking at the same time. My character has 5 models outside of the challenge and his is alone, so I will get 1 re-roll from moral support. When do I declare that I'm using my re-roll? If he whiffs his attacks, then I would want to use the re-roll for my attacks...happening at the same time. If he rolls well, then I would want to keep it for my saves...but I wouldn't know that until my attacks are done.

In these instances, do you have to do something silly like a countdown ("Ok, we both roll in 3...2...1")? Do you roll with your eyes closed?

Siphen wrote:
How do you handle a situation when two players are technically rolling at the same time...but the order matters?

It depends. Before game, like in your example of rolling powers, there are no rules on how to handle the situation. But if your opponent is unable to stop himself from meta-gaming, pre-game rolling like Warlord traits and psychic powers should be done somehow in secret.

For your second example, page 9 technically handles it: Current player chooses what order the dice are rolled.

just roll the dice behind books and reveal for warlord traits at the same time.

for the re-roll in a combat situation, you both roll o hit at the same time, you don't 'take turns' really so you both roll to hit, you then decide if you want to re-roll.

Worst case scenario have a third party watch over that. But that was bad sport I'd say

Siphen wrote:
How do you handle a situation when two players are technically rolling at the same time...but the order matters? That's a confusing question, but the following two examples have recently come up in my games:

1. Before the game, while rolling for psychic powers, I rolled Invisibility. My Eldar opponent saw this roll and subsequently chose his primaris (Conceal/Reveal) to counter my stealth and shrouded. AFAIK, players roll for psychic powers at the same time. My psychic power rolls shouldn't have any effect on what he chooses.

Whats the difference between that and when a person looks over their opponents list and creates a hard counter to their list before the game?

If you want to roll off to see who gets the choice of doing psyhic powers first. Having a psyker that can negate another power is a good list building option though.

In regards to combat, the player who's turn it is decides what happens first (if things happen at the same time only), you are well within your rights to tell him to roll his attacks first.

 Gitsmasher wrote:

Siphen wrote:
How do you handle a situation when two players are technically rolling at the same time...but the order matters? That's a confusing question, but the following two examples have recently come up in my games:

1. Before the game, while rolling for psychic powers, I rolled Invisibility. My Eldar opponent saw this roll and subsequently chose his primaris (Conceal/Reveal) to counter my stealth and shrouded. AFAIK, players roll for psychic powers at the same time. My psychic power rolls shouldn't have any effect on what he chooses.

Whats the difference between that and when a person looks over their opponents list and creates a hard counter to their list before the game?

Because that is what is know as list tailoring, or as I like to call it, a dick move.

Is this really a serious question though? The described situation is nothing like what you suggested and is talking about a situation that arises once lists have already been decided and the pre-game rolls have already begun.

Siphen wrote:
How do you handle a situation when two players are technically rolling at the same time...but the order matters? That's a confusing question, but the following two examples have recently come up in my games:

1. Before the game, while rolling for psychic powers, I rolled Invisibility. My Eldar opponent saw this roll and subsequently chose his primaris (Conceal/Reveal) to counter my stealth and shrouded. AFAIK, players roll for psychic powers at the same time. My psychic power rolls shouldn't have any effect on what he chooses.

2. Two characters with unwieldy weapons are fighting in a challenge, so we're attacking at the same time. My character has 5 models outside of the challenge and his is alone, so I will get 1 re-roll from moral support. When do I declare that I'm using my re-roll? If he whiffs his attacks, then I would want to use the re-roll for my attacks...happening at the same time. If he rolls well, then I would want to keep it for my saves...but I wouldn't know that until my attacks are done.

In these instances, do you have to do something silly like a countdown ("Ok, we both roll in 3...2...1")? Do you roll with your eyes closed?

1) The best advice I can give you is to get a couple pieces of scrap paper. In secret each player who is going to generate a psychic power write down what discipline they are generating that power from. Players whose psyker is using fixed powers would instead write "Fixed". Then all players roll a die in the open and write down the result to the left of the discipline (being sure to keep that discipline hidden). Each player then looks up the power in secret and decides if they want to keep it or drop it for the primarius power. On the sheet they then write down the name of the power to the right of the discipline (being sure to keep that name and discipline hidden). Then after all powers have been selected both players reveal the complete list.
You'll know the rolls are good but wont be able to meta game your choices this way. It also adds a level of intrigue as you'll never know if that grey knight is generating powers from the book or his codex until, or what kind of psyker you are up against until after you've made all your choices. The same kind of tactic can be used for warlord traits. The only downside to this method is you can guess what list they might be using if you see what book they are checking so to obfuscate your intentions even more when you look up your powers check all the books you could be using!

2) Make the decision to re-roll anything before you move on to the next step. Once you roll to wound its to late to re-roll hits, once you roll saves its to late to re-roll wounds. Any player with an option to re-roll should be making those decisions with all the information available. Yes knowing he whiffed on his attacks will influence the decisions you make but if he had re-rolls as well he would the exact same information as you. Its not an unfair advantage in your example, just an advantage.

A third party to oversee rolls done in secret from the other player would be simplest.

If it is just the two of you want to be sure he has no idea what powers you are rolling but you want to verify each other rolls it gets more complicated. Aside from ultra basic coded message systems where the opponent can witness the randomized results but cannot determine what they mean the simplest solution is to alter some playing cards and simply make several 6 card decks for each discipline. Each card has the name of one power in that discipline written on the face and the back of each just has the pimarus power or discipline marked on it. You'll need one deck per psyker per discipline option since each one will need a complete deck to draw upon (this might be a large number, game before last I played I had 11 psykers). When deciding disciplines place your psykers on the table, shuffle the decks and draw (from appropriate discipline decks without peaking or revealing) placing the cards next to next to or under the psykers. Remember only one psyker can draw off any one deck. After both players have done this, reveal the cards next to each psyker and write down the powers.

If that is to much trouble, whoever has the most point value in the army could be made to roll first, whoever won the last game between you two rolls first or decide on some other arbitrary criteria (the pointiest ears, who's got more cash in their pocket, flip a coin, etc.)

DJs method sounds the best i would think, just so they couldnt just cherry pick the best out of the tree and THEN show what they have.

Q: If two players have special rules or effects that occur at
exactly the same time before the game begins, in what order
are these effects resolved? (p120)
A: In this instance, both effects occur simultaneously –
therefore simply roll a dice for which effect occurs first as
per ‘The Most Important Rule’ on page 4 of the
Warhammer 40,000 Rulebook.

Closest rule I can fine to say if it will make a difference; then D6 it to see who generates them first.