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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/02 02:39:29
Subject: Airbrush Compressor Compatibility + Beginner Questions
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Myrmidon Officer
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So I'm another one of those people looking to start airbrushing, and with December splurging coming up, it seems like a good time to get one finally.
I've decided upon this: http://www.amazon.com/Master-Airbrush%C2%AE-Dual-action-Airbrush-Exclusively/dp/B0013DSONI/
I've heard good things about the Air Pro Tools PS900 with that name being thrown around all over the place, and that price seems exceptionally affordable for someone just starting out.
However, regarding the compressor, I currently have a nailgun with a 150PSI compressor; specifically: http://www.portercable.com/products/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=17019
It's loud as hell when operating, but it has a tank and only pumps when needed. Plus, noise isn't a concern.
I know that airbrushes prefer 25-30PSI, will that compressor suit my needs, or will I need a daintier compressor? It has a dial that I can set a specified PSI, but I'm unsure if that's a proper airbrush regulator or not.
Is the airbrush that I linked suitable for somewhat simple tasks such as basecoating blended colors on Eldar GravTanks and painting up three-color Tyranid Carapaces? If the compressor I linked is suitable, I'd be within budget for a much more expensive airbrush; if that's the case, any recommendations?
Will my collection of Vallejo paints work just fine if I thin them down enough?
Additionally, is there anything else I'll need to buy aside from an item called "airbrush" and an item called "compressor" that isn't immediately obvious?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/02 02:50:49
Subject: Airbrush Compressor Compatibility + Beginner Questions
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Drakhun
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It might could work, you will need to find an adaptor that will fit from the airbrush hose to the compressor. If the compressor doesn't have a psi dial (to control how much pressure comes out) you will need to get one. Also you will want a moisture trap (most likely an inline between the hose and the airbrush. Your Vallejo paints will work fine when thinned. So will your P3, GW and any others you have. Other things you need. (from my blog. Sorry shameless plug is shameless). Airbrush Cleaning Station, it is a little glass bowl that you spray your cleaner into, and doubles as an airbrush stand, This thing is priceless. Airbrush Cleaner. Some type of solvent lots of companies make them and there are tons of tutorials out there on how to make your own. I use Vallejo Airbrush Cleaner and dilute it 1:1 with water. Airbrush Thinner. Again lots of companies make it, you can make your own. Pipe Cleaners and Q-Tips. For cleaning your shiny new airbrush. Spray Booth. Just bite the bullet and get one, they come in at $70 from TCP Global and its worth every penny. Here are things that I use that are not needs but definitely help. Small plastic cups for mixing. I use medicine cups and get them on amazon they are $4 for 100. Gloves. The plastic ones, for holding your models when you spray. Respirator. For protection when shooting anything more than acrylics. Gater clips and Cork, this gives you something to hold on to so you are not touching the model its self while spraying. Also grab an extra needle or two for your brush. You will need them and TCP global takes about a week to ship them.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/02 02:51:26
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/02 04:35:19
Subject: Airbrush Compressor Compatibility + Beginner Questions
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Myrmidon Officer
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Is there a moisture trap that you recommend, or is anything simply good enough?
What sort of adapter do airbrushes usually use? Is there a name for them?
Thank you for the list of other accessories. Most of them seem simple enough that I have all those just lying around. Airbrush thinner and cleaner is good to know and available in hobby shops nearby.
Aside from the listed and a moisture trap, is there anything else that is needed that goes between the compressor and the airbrush, or is it just straightforward plug and go?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/02 08:04:33
Subject: Airbrush Compressor Compatibility + Beginner Questions
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Huge Hierodule
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TCP has tons of products.
http://www.tcpglobal.com/
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was censored by the ministry of truth |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/02 08:42:44
Subject: Airbrush Compressor Compatibility + Beginner Questions
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Gargantuan Gargant
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Adapters, regulators, and moisture traps are all standard plumbing/air tool fare, with occasional caveats. If the noise isn't a bother, you can definitely get your current compressor up to spec for far less than the cost of even a small, cheap airbrush-specific compressor.
As you mentioned, airbrushers tend to work at much lower pressures than someone using a spray gun to paint their fence, let alone someone running a nail gun. The degree of control on the lower end of the pressure spectrum, though, is lacking in a lot of stock regulators (some won't even register >20-30PSI). You don't need a specialty regulator marketed for airbrushers, you just need something that gives you moderately fine control, even at low pressures. No need to mess with the compressor's attached regulator, either - a new one can be added anywhere along the line.
Moisture trap necessity depends largely on your local conditions. Someone spraying in Florida will need to try a lot harder to keep their air supply dry than someone in New Mexico. If you're in NC, you'll likely need to take some preventative measures. Your particular setup also has an effect, as long hoses give moisture plenty of time to condense on its way to the airbrush. A big trap attached right next to the compressor doesn't necessarily do more than a small, cheap in-line trap just below the airbrush (which gives the air time to cool, letting the moisture condense for easy collection).
Adapters are the really straightforward part. If the hose coming out of your compressor has a different diameter than your airbrush accepts, you need an adapter. 1/4" to 1/8" is the most common jump people need to make. A quick trip to the hardware store will get that sorted out, if it's an issue - a few bucks gets you a lovely little chunk of threaded brass that sorts out any discrepancies once screwed in. Looking at the linked brush, though, it won't be an issue - it has fittings for both sizes.
As a (lengthy) side note - I couldn't make out a model number for that brush from the images and didn't see it listed. It looks identical to my Master G44, also purchased from TCP. If it's the same one, I'd suggest looking for another brush. I assume the manufacturer changed at some point, as I bought mine based on numerous recommendations from Dakka and the internet, at large, but I found the quality to be downright abysmal.
The design makes certain cleaning tasks nearly impossible (the needle packing is recessed, inviting paint deposits and thwarting any attempt to physically brush away the buildup). The MAC valve seems to bleed pressure (straining my cheap airbrush compressor, which needs to run at much higher PSI than I'm actually shooting at - not an issue for you, but still reflective of brush design and build quality). Most important, though, is the crude machining. On the outside, the brush in nice and polished. Feels solid in the hand, too. The base of the color cup, however, appears to have been finished by chisel - the edge is rough enough that cotton buds get snagged and paper towels shredded in the process of cleaning. Even worse, the nozzle and air cap don't align properly. I had to remove an external O-ring to get the nozzle to clear the cap (as suggested by troubleshooters, online), but there's an obvious misalignment, still. I bought a different needle/nozzle set (wanted a .5mm for heavier applications) when I ordered it, but they suffer from the same issue, suggesting that the gun, not the replaceable parts, is faulty. I've gotten far better results with the cheaper siphon-feed brush from Harbor Freight.
My experience may be an unfortunate fluke, but be wary, at least. With only four reviews on Amazon, I assume the brushes are being listed differently, keeping products from attaining a sufficient body of reviews to really indicate customer satisfaction. The G-series has been around for a while - you should be able to find many more reviews, hopefully with some current enough to either confirm my experience or assure that it was, in fact, atypical.
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The Dreadnote wrote:But the Emperor already has a shrine, in the form of your local Games Workshop. You honour him by sacrificing your money to the plastic effigies of his warriors. In time, your devotion will be rewarded with the gift of having even more effigies to worship. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/02 14:26:54
Subject: Airbrush Compressor Compatibility + Beginner Questions
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Drakhun
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One thing to mention, you can pickup a badger Sotar 20/20 for around $60 or a Badger Patriot 105 for around $70 on amazon right now. Both are amazing airbrushes.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/02 18:48:32
Subject: Re:Airbrush Compressor Compatibility + Beginner Questions
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Perturbed Blood Angel Tactical Marine
Toronto
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I wouldn't recommend a Sotar 20/20 if you are just beginning unless you just want to take advantage of the deal. I'm by no means an expert but learning the fundamentals of thinning, cleaning and just basic usage on the Master was integral in my learning and had a direct relation to my ability to use the Sotar.
As for working pressure when I started getting into the finer detail air brushing, I lowered my pressure to about 15psi. Higher pressures can cause the medium to 'spider' and knowing how to thin the paint properly is important when working at lower pressures.
If you can save some money on a compressor I would suggest the Iwata HP-CS or the Badger Krome as an upgrade airbrush over the Master. I've heard good things about the patriot as well but don't have any personal experience with it as I do with the Krome or the HPCS. I didn't find the quality of the Master as bad as Oadie, but I did notice how much better the aforementioned pair were when I started using them.
You don't NEED all of the accessories (like the cleaning station, or booth) but they do make things much more convenient. I would strongly recommend the moisture trap and a spare needle (and nozzle if applicable) and some sort of mask if you are on a budget. I used a sink and a cardboard box for my cleaning station and booth until I decided I was going to commit to the airbrush and purchased legitimate products.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/02 18:49:57
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/02 19:12:13
Subject: Airbrush Compressor Compatibility + Beginner Questions
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Old Sourpuss
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Absolutionis, as to your compressor questions I currently use this:
http://www.walmart.com/ip/12534870?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=3
It's loud, it was cheap (and has automotive uses if I need them!) and best of all, it works. I didn't need any adapters for my set up, and it has adjustable psi. If your pancake compressor has adjustable psi then you should be good to go.
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DR:80+S++G+M+B+I+Pwmhd11#++D++A++++/sWD-R++++T(S)DM+

Ask me about Brushfire or Endless: Fantasy Tactics |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/03 03:23:58
Subject: Airbrush Compressor Compatibility + Beginner Questions
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Myrmidon Officer
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Thank you everyone for your answers. I'm heavily thnking about getting the Badger Sotar 20/20 Airbrush for $60 on Amazon. Seems like a hard to resist deal with a lower than average starting investment considering Alfndrate stated his airbrush works fine with a commercial hardware compressor.
I'll get the basic necessities (mask, etc), a moisture trap, and wait for everything to come in before buying an applicable adapter that plugs things together.
oadie wrote:Adapters, regulators, and moisture traps are all standard plumbing/air tool fare, with occasional caveats. If the noise isn't a bother, you can definitely get your current compressor up to spec for far less than the cost of even a small, cheap airbrush-specific compressor.
I guess a compressor is a compressor after all. It's good to know I can invest in a decent-quality airbrush for now and stick with my working and pretty good compressor for now.
oadie wrote:As you mentioned, airbrushers tend to work at much lower pressures than someone using a spray gun to paint their fence, let alone someone running a nail gun. The degree of control on the lower end of the pressure spectrum, though, is lacking in a lot of stock regulators (some won't even register >20-30PSI). You don't need a specialty regulator marketed for airbrushers, you just need something that gives you moderately fine control, even at low pressures. No need to mess with the compressor's attached regulator, either - a new one can be added anywhere along the line.
Does the specific pressure matter, or is it just preference? What's the problem with too high pressure?
Is the goal to gain consistent pressure?
oadie wrote:Moisture trap necessity depends largely on your local conditions. Someone spraying in Florida will need to try a lot harder to keep their air supply dry than someone in New Mexico. If you're in NC, you'll likely need to take some preventative measures. Your particular setup also has an effect, as long hoses give moisture plenty of time to condense on its way to the airbrush. A big trap attached right next to the compressor doesn't necessarily do more than a small, cheap in-line trap just below the airbrush (which gives the air time to cool, letting the moisture condense for easy collection).
Good to know, I'll invest in a moisture trap. Any recommendations?
oadie wrote:Adapters are the really straightforward part. If the hose coming out of your compressor has a different diameter than your airbrush accepts, you need an adapter. 1/4" to 1/8" is the most common jump people need to make. A quick trip to the hardware store will get that sorted out, if it's an issue - a few bucks gets you a lovely little chunk of threaded brass that sorts out any discrepancies once screwed in. Looking at the linked brush, though, it won't be an issue - it has fittings for both sizes.
Good to know that any hardware store adapter will work; no specialty buts needed. I'll just get the airbrush and moisture trap for now and see what connecting pieces are needed when everything is on-hand.
oadie wrote:As a (lengthy) side note - I couldn't make out a model number for that brush from the images and didn't see it listed. It looks identical to my Master G44, also purchased from TCP. If it's the same one, I'd suggest looking for another brush. I assume the manufacturer changed at some point, as I bought mine based on numerous recommendations from Dakka and the internet, at large, but I found the quality to be downright abysmal.
The design makes certain cleaning tasks nearly impossible (the needle packing is recessed, inviting paint deposits and thwarting any attempt to physically brush away the buildup). The MAC valve seems to bleed pressure (straining my cheap airbrush compressor, which needs to run at much higher PSI than I'm actually shooting at - not an issue for you, but still reflective of brush design and build quality). Most important, though, is the crude machining. On the outside, the brush in nice and polished. Feels solid in the hand, too. The base of the color cup, however, appears to have been finished by chisel - the edge is rough enough that cotton buds get snagged and paper towels shredded in the process of cleaning. Even worse, the nozzle and air cap don't align properly. I had to remove an external O-ring to get the nozzle to clear the cap (as suggested by troubleshooters, online), but there's an obvious misalignment, still. I bought a different needle/nozzle set (wanted a .5mm for heavier applications) when I ordered it, but they suffer from the same issue, suggesting that the gun, not the replaceable parts, is faulty. I've gotten far better results with the cheaper siphon-feed brush from Harbor Freight.
My experience may be an unfortunate fluke, but be wary, at least. With only four reviews on Amazon, I assume the brushes are being listed differently, keeping products from attaining a sufficient body of reviews to really indicate customer satisfaction. The G-series has been around for a while - you should be able to find many more reviews, hopefully with some current enough to either confirm my experience or assure that it was, in fact, atypical.
So I am hearing regarding Master's Airbrushes. The one I linked indeed is by the same company that makes the Master G44.
I'll avoid the company if only because I'm not experienced enough to discern misalignments and definitely not experienced enough to handly intricate cleanups yet.
Thank you for the review.
It seemed like a really good deal considering the comparison to Amazon's MSRP. What airbrush did you eventually find that left you satisfied?
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darefsky wrote:One thing to mention, you can pickup a badger Sotar 20/20 for around $60 or a Badger Patriot 105 for around $70 on amazon right now. Both are amazing airbrushes.
Actually, thank you. I watched a lot of videos and it seems the Sotar 20/20 is rather straightforward with good capability for fine details. $60 is within budget and I'll be getting that. I saw several videos by non-professional YouTubers and it left me impressed. So long as it plugs into the compressor I currently have, all is great.
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Ulterior wrote:I wouldn't recommend a Sotar 20/20 if you are just beginning unless you just want to take advantage of the deal. I'm by no means an expert but learning the fundamentals of thinning, cleaning and just basic usage on the Master was integral in my learning and had a direct relation to my ability to use the Sotar.
As for working pressure when I started getting into the finer detail air brushing, I lowered my pressure to about 15psi. Higher pressures can cause the medium to 'spider' and knowing how to thin the paint properly is important when working at lower pressures.
If you can save some money on a compressor I would suggest the Iwata HP- CS or the Badger Krome as an upgrade airbrush over the Master. I've heard good things about the patriot as well but don't have any personal experience with it as I do with the Krome or the HPCS. I didn't find the quality of the Master as bad as Oadie, but I did notice how much better the aforementioned pair were when I started using them.
You don't NEED all of the accessories (like the cleaning station, or booth) but they do make things much more convenient. I would strongly recommend the moisture trap and a spare needle (and nozzle if applicable) and some sort of mask if you are on a budget. I used a sink and a cardboard box for my cleaning station and booth until I decided I was going to commit to the airbrush and purchased legitimate products.
I actually would like to take advantage of the deal. 87% off seems hard to resist on an airbrush that I can't find too many complaints about online. It's going for $300-$800 on other sites, so it's hard to ignore this deal.
At least from a beginner's standpoint, why choose the Master over the Badger Sotar? You're saying the Badger Sotar is better than the Master airbrush yet don't recommend starting with it?
There's also a Badger Krome which is within budget, but from what I see the Sotar is capable of finer detail work.
As for the compressor, so long as the one I have now works for the time being, I'll stick with it. I'll invest in a more dainty compressor when/if noise becomes a problem.
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This is exactly what I was curious about. Thanks!
My Porter Cable compressor is pretty much the same general concept as that Campbell in being used for nailguns and staple guns; hardware stuff. Yours looks the same in that the adjustable pressure is literally just a valve that you turn until the analog gauge reads XX PSI, correct?
Thank you for the confirmation!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/03 04:41:09
Subject: Re:Airbrush Compressor Compatibility + Beginner Questions
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Great thread guys, perfect timing too!
Thank you, Absolutionis, for your post and all you dakkies for tossing in your 2 cents, I too am ordering a Badger Sotar 20/20 from Amazon.
In addition I'm also ordering a TC-20 compressor kit for $85 shipped. I can always get a tank for it if I like the compressor.
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1500 Dark Angels( 9 - 4 - 0 )
Humility must always be the portion of any man who receives acclaim earned in the blood of his followers and the sacrifices of his friends.
- Dwight D. Eisenhower
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/03 06:18:57
Subject: Airbrush Compressor Compatibility + Beginner Questions
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Gargantuan Gargant
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Pretty much any compressor is going to work the same way when it comes to controlling air pressure, whether it's geared towards airbrushing or running tools at high PSI. They're all dial-controlled valves with analog gauges that display the current pressure (some compressors with tanks may actually have two of them - one for tank pressure and one for output pressure). My cheap HF airbrush compressor's gauge reads from 0-100 PSI, even though there's no chance in hell that I could ever push it that high, even if I wanted to - it's simply a stock part. It works for airbrushing, though, because it has relatively high "resolution." I can read a one or two PSI difference in the needle, even though half of the gauge is essentially wasted space. The issue that some tool compressor dials have is that they are expected to run tools at high PSI, so they have trouble with fine adjustment at the low end of the pressure spectrum. If you can adjust yours below 30-40 PSI (the absolute highest you'd likely ever go) and can reliably read where you're at, you're golden. If you find yourself flicking the dial's bezel because it won't move until you empty the tank or jump up to 50PSI, you'll want to get a new regulator.
As far as pressure's affect on spraying, there's enough reading material out there already that I won't go into too much detail. Basically, pressure scales with the thickness of your medium, but also depends on the task. Thick paint takes more pressure to atomize and propel out of the gun than thin paint. Detail work that brings you close to the model requires low pressure, so you're forced to use thinner paint. Someone spraying T-shirts can get away with using higher pressures, since their target is absorbent. Working with plastic models, spraying at too high a pressure means you're going to overload the surface with liquid paint that can't be absorbed, leading to pooling and spidering (a "splat" effect, as the pool of paint is blasted by continued airflow and rivulets are driven away from its center). Consistent pressure is definitely desirable, but it does actually matter what the pressure you're staying at is.
Regarding moisture traps, I don't have any specific recommendations, as the one that came attached to my little compressor is more than sufficient, for me. I spray inside a pretty consistently dry room and I don't generally spray long enough to really heat up the compressor. I always empty the trap when I'm done, but there's rarely even any condensation to release. I know that TCP and Badger both sell lengths of hose with inline traps, as I'm sure do others. Compressor-side traps or ones you splice in, yourself, are standard hardware store fare.
Can't recommend any airbrushes to you, either, as I haven't yet sprung for a decent one, myself. I had actually returned my original HF brush, thinking the Master G44 would serve me better. I only recently bought another HF brush after spending several months experimenting and, as a result, spewing profanity in perpetual disappointment. Listen to the other recommendations, though, as there are quite a few skilled and prolific airbrushers here, as well as a veritable horde of more casual hobbyists that have at least developed a solid grip on it. I'm more of a well-read neophyte that types enough to occasionally sound like an expert, so I'm actually taking brush recommendations from this thread, too.
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The Dreadnote wrote:But the Emperor already has a shrine, in the form of your local Games Workshop. You honour him by sacrificing your money to the plastic effigies of his warriors. In time, your devotion will be rewarded with the gift of having even more effigies to worship. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/03 14:56:28
Subject: Airbrush Compressor Compatibility + Beginner Questions
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Perturbed Blood Angel Tactical Marine
Toronto
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Absolutionis wrote:I actually would like to take advantage of the deal. 87% off seems hard to resist on an airbrush that I can't find too many complaints about online. It's going for $300-$800 on other sites, so it's hard to ignore this deal.
At least from a beginner's standpoint, why choose the Master over the Badger Sotar? You're saying the Badger Sotar is better than the Master airbrush yet don't recommend starting with it?
There's also a Badger Krome which is within budget, but from what I see the Sotar is capable of finer detail work.
The finer lines the Sotar2020 is capable of aren't as simple as a quick adjustment. With finer lines comes the importance of thinning the medium which seems to be one of the most common sources of numerous problems as well as tip dry which becomes more common with a finer needle. I'm just suggesting that you consider either an alternative OR additional brush that is more forgiving.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/03 17:27:32
Subject: Airbrush Compressor Compatibility + Beginner Questions
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Sergeant Major
Fort Worthless, TX
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darefsky wrote:
Airbrush Thinner. Again lots of companies make it, you can make your own.
Small plastic cups for mixing. I use medicine cups and get them on amazon they are $4 for 100.
I just ordered 100 cups from Amazon, thank you. What do you use to thin your paints? I was thinking distilled water and some thinner or matt medium. What do you use?
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GW - If it ain't broke, fix it until it is. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/03 18:00:01
Subject: Airbrush Compressor Compatibility + Beginner Questions
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Drakhun
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Davespil wrote: darefsky wrote: Airbrush Thinner. Again lots of companies make it, you can make your own. Small plastic cups for mixing. I use medicine cups and get them on amazon they are $4 for 100.
I just ordered 100 cups from Amazon, thank you. What do you use to thin your paints? I was thinking distilled water and some thinner or matt medium. What do you use? I use Vallejo Airbrush Thinner. I'm not sure if its the best out there but it has worked well for me so I can't complain. I mixed it 1:1 with water and keep it in a plastic condiment bottle that I picked up at Dollar General for like $0.50. Not sure why its not carried on Amazon right now but that's where I had gotten a few bottles from (so far I haven't used an entire bottle in the year I have been airbrushing. The link below is just to show you the product, I have no idea about this ebay auction but its the correct product for reference. http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/400483473738?lpid=82
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/03 18:00:42
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/04 03:58:29
Subject: Airbrush Compressor Compatibility + Beginner Questions
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Trustworthy Shas'vre
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As a person who has both a badger patriot 105 and the sotar 2020 (and several other brushes) I would strongly recommend against the sotar and get the patriot.
The sotar, a very nice brush...is also very picky (as stated above).
Its a very precise instrument - and can be frustrating for a beginner to use or learn on.
This is one of the biggest misconceptions about airbrushes - that "better brush" means "most expensive is better for a beginner".
Once you get past check low quality chinese knockoffs on ebay (yes, some will be good, but most are junk - they have terrible quality control) most name brand brushes are good.
The patriot 105 (or an hpcs, or an iwata neo, or a paashce vl, etc.) are good all around brushes.
I love my 105, it not picky about paint, it has a large cup, it cleans very easily, and the needle is tough.
Like I said, the sotar...I love it...its a very precise instrument - but its harder to clean, its incredibly picky about the paint I put in it (this will make sense once you start using a brush) and its very sensitive to pressure.
Here is a better example - if you were going to learn how to carve wood, would you start with a dependable and rugged high quality carving knife? (the 105, or the hpcs)
Or could you start with an incredible sensitive micro scapal.- which while yes, may be made out of titanium and have a diamond edge...but is very unforgiving to an inexperienced hand.
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DavePak
"Remember, in life, the only thing you absolutely control is your own attitude - do not squander that power."
Fully Painted armies:
TAU: 10k Nids: 9600 Marines: 4000 Crons: 7600
Actor, Gamer, Comic, Corporate Nerd
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