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I always thought that the Black Templars had an intollerance against all psykers. I even read about it on the forums here. The new Marines codex says otherwise. They seem to revere Astropaths and Navigators. On top of that they don't seem to mind Librarians to much either from what I read. It's just allien witches and rogue psykers that they hate the guts out.

So what is right and what is wrong?

There is no right and wrong. There is new and old.

From my recollection, the new SM codex is the first time that stance between the BT and psykers has ever been stated. Prior to that, every other source dealing with the BT stressed their utter intolerance of all psykers.

Now when scrutinized, this seemed a bit unfeasible given the importance of astropaths and navigators, so many people rationalized it as a tolerance towards these two groups with underlying feelings of contempt.

What the new codex does is completely flips their relationship with Imperium psykers of all kinds, which many people strongly disliked when talking about the fiery and intolerant BT. As such, a chunk of people are disregarding the write up for the BT in the new codex. The same can be said for many Iron Hands players as well.

The idea that Black Templars hated all psykers has always been kind of dumb because:

A) They're a fleet based chapter, and therefore utterly depend on Astropaths for their very survival. Like, every day. They also depend on them for long-distance communication between other Templar crusades and Imperialists because the Imperium doesn't have FTL communications that doesn't involve the warp (as far as I know).

B) The Emperor, their God, is/was a psyker.

The current explanation of "They actually love all Imperial-psykers but they just really really hate non-Imperial psykers" is also kind of dumb, mostly just really specific and kind of go-figure (I assume all chapters hate non-Imperial psykers, so why this is this noteworthy for the Templars?). But, eh.

Lots of groups in the Imperium hate all psykers, because they cannot be as good as the God-Emperor, and thus are mockeries of his divine powers.

The Sororitas are one such group.

Personally, I think the new BT lore is... really weak. It strikes me as a compromise made for game-play reasons, rather than for in-universe lore or continuity considerations. It's a mechanics thing, rather than a narrative thing, in other words.

 Psienesis wrote:
Personally, I think the new BT lore is... really weak. It strikes me as a compromise made for game-play reasons, rather than for in-universe lore or continuity considerations. It's a mechanics thing, rather than a narrative thing, in other words.

It's not all bad. They made them buds with the SoB, for one. That old allies matrix relationship they had really made no sense, so I'd call that a positive change.

If you read The Crimson Fist, you'll see that Sigismund (later the first Chapter Master of the Black Templars) didn't lead the Imperial Fists retribution fleet to Isstvan V because Euphrati Keeler told him that he would be needed at Terra. When he told that to Rogal Dorn, Dorn practically disowned him.

The Black Templars dislike of psykers could be extrapolated from Sigismund's belief that his trust in a psyker destroyed his self-worth.

 Troike wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
Personally, I think the new BT lore is... really weak. It strikes me as a compromise made for game-play reasons, rather than for in-universe lore or continuity considerations. It's a mechanics thing, rather than a narrative thing, in other words.

It's not all bad. They made them buds with the SoB, for one. That old allies matrix relationship they had really made no sense, so I'd call that a positive change.

But that isn't really new. The Ally Matrix was what was wrong, and flew in the face of previous interactions between them. So the update simply sort of fixed what was originally an error with the Ally Matrix, it did not really change the fluff that these two factions had in previous publications. After all, the BT do have a campaign ribbon on their banners honoring the Sisters.

 BlaxicanX wrote:


B) The Emperor, their God, is/was a psyker.

Go rinse out your mouth! the Emperor is a divine being! His powers are god like! he is not a dirty psyker witch!
Your Convent will be raised to the ground!

Hm, the non Fanatic explenation could be is that the Black Templers folow the Emperor's Edicts to the letter.
He has always been ok with Navigators and Astrophats and the ruling of Nikea has never been changed by him (Golden throne and such)
So the BT never followed the the change after the Horus Heresy that the use Librarians is ok (several chapters have been turned by chaos, let's open a door
to that realm with this edict )

Black Templars hate all witches, and only tolerate Astropaths and Navigators out of necessity. Such beings are abhorrations, and must be destroyed. TBH, with respect to BT its best to simply use their old fluff (Helbrecht killing a DP with a combat knife as an initiate is ridiculous). Also I'm not a big fan of their allies matrix, how they're better allies with some filthy xenos and heretics than they are with the SoB.

 Psienesis wrote:

 Troike wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
Personally, I think the new BT lore is... really weak. It strikes me as a compromise made for game-play reasons, rather than for in-universe lore or continuity considerations. It's a mechanics thing, rather than a narrative thing, in other words.

It's not all bad. They made them buds with the SoB, for one. That old allies matrix relationship they had really made no sense, so I'd call that a positive change.

But that isn't really new. The Ally Matrix was what was wrong, and flew in the face of previous interactions between them. So the update simply sort of fixed what was originally an error with the Ally Matrix, it did not really change the fluff that these two factions had in previous publications. After all, the BT do have a campaign ribbon on their banners honoring the Sisters.

It was new in that it outright said that they have a good relationship, though. Before it was just one shared crusade, so you had people justifying their old allies matrix relationship with "oh, it's like Protestants and Catholics". But now the fluff says that there's consistent co-operation and a mutual bond of honour between the two, which is cool.

"One shared Crusade" is still a big deal. I know the term gets thrown around a lot, but Crusades are kind of a really big deal to the Imperium. There's a lot of time, money, resources and lives put into raising and prosecuting a Crusade.

The SoB and the BT working together during a Crusade is on the level of Britain and France supporting each other in the World Wars. A Crusade is a *major* conflict for the Imperium, otherwise the local PDF/SM Chapter/IG Regiment can handle it and it doesn't make the evening astro-news.