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Maybe this is me coming from too much traditional fantasy but doesn't it seem like sometimes that the Eldar and Imperium should be on the same page for a lot of stuff? I know it provides a lot of tension and a reason to fight with the whole "in the grim dark future, there is only war" but you would think that forces would start to ally outside their own race if they have the same goal? We know in Horus Rising that some of the far flung humans made contact with the Eldar, learned from them and were better off because of the knowledge that the Eldar shared with those humans. Why did we never do this before when it has shown that a positive relationship between humans and Eldar only leads to good things? Now, I read some lore way back when (I forget what I was looking up and it was only a blurb so I could of misread it) that the Emperor had a chance to extend the olive branch to the Eldar and forge an alliance in the wake of their birthing a chaos god but the Emperor refused so that we could learn to stand on our own which is admirable but really (if that's true)?! Anuntd in the wake of that, why the heck then would we become xenophobic? Okay, we don't want an alliance, that's okay but do we really need open hostility too? To me, the Eldar and humans have the same goal: the destruction of Chaos. The Eldar and humans both have a reason to hate each of the four so why aren't we joining forces?

This has always been something that has bothered me since I got into 40k and it was the Eldar who I was originally going to play until the Grey Knights and now the Inquisition has their own codices and army since that is my favorite Imperial faction. Plus, I love psykers. This has come in the wake of finally deciding to ally my GK with Eldar, it was an eventual thing that was going to happen especially since I like the Eldar so much. Luckily the Inquisition is the one faction of the Imperium that has willingly worked with the Eldar which brings up another question in regards as a fluff justification of why an Eldar faction would be teaming up with an Inquisitor and his army: An Inquisitor of the Ordos Malleus meets a Farseer of Ulthwe while on a particularly grueling mission to defeat a greater daemon of Slaanesh, the two join their forces in a desperate measure of survival. During this exchange, they gain respect for each other and learn that they both share a deep seated hatred for Chaos that by the end of the exchange they both choose to go into a shadow alliance outside both of their races condemnation of such a pact. The prejudices they have gained through the years never really go away so they never fully trust each other as battle brothers but they do battle quite a bit, notifying each other when one gets information on another incursion. Sometimes, they even appear unexpectedly to help one another since each keeps close tabs on the other through their various means that are at their disposals.

And that is my justification to run a GK army with Eldar allies.

Eldar arrogance, Eldar Pirates and Human Fear.

From what i know (IG and edlar are my only armies) this is why

 Swastakowey wrote:
Eldar arrogance, Eldar Pirates and Human Fear.

From what i know (IG and edlar are my only armies) this is why

Arrogance is something that can be overcome. The Eldar can think they are better than the humans all they want but even they could see the potential an alliance would bring. And I thought Eldar Pirates were really only Dark Eldar or well, Eldar that border on almost being Dark Eldar. That is much different than a Craftworld. And humans aren't saints either. And I got nothing for xenophobia, that one has been ingrained into humans. Pity really.

They'll be friends when one of them are completely gone and the remaining faction can start laying claim to territories less hindered by the shadows of the past nostalgic for glories of old or the upstarts who held so much but now watch the sand that is their realm pass through their fingers unstoppably.

Even if they work together and defeat everyone else forever, they'll start sizing each other up before the last enemy corpse is cold.

-CotW

 Envihon wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:
Eldar arrogance, Eldar Pirates and Human Fear.

From what i know (IG and edlar are my only armies) this is why

Arrogance is something that can be overcome. The Eldar can think they are better than the humans all they want but even they could see the potential an alliance would bring. And I thought Eldar Pirates were really only Dark Eldar or well, Eldar that border on almost being Dark Eldar. That is much different than a Craftworld. And humans aren't saints either. And I got nothing for xenophobia, that one has been ingrained into humans. Pity really.

Arrogance yes, but i think its been ingrained into the eldar

I read that the humans dont know the difference between eldar and corsiars and so on so when they are attacked by eldar (any kind) they simply think that they where attacked by eldar. Plus craftworlds have a tendancy to end their alliance once the humans arent needed.

Xenophobia. If my nation was surrounded by even some of the horrors that Xenos have to offer id be Xenophobic too. To all of them. Just to be safe.

Eldar and humanity both have overwhelming degrees of arrogance, pride, paranoia, fear, misunderstanding, and disgust towards each other. This prevents any long term alliances from occurring.

The Eldar and the people of Tallarm swore oaths of friendship, so they do get along in some areas depending on craftworld and planet and circumstances involved, and Harlequins perform their plays for other races including humans too so they won't repeat the Eldars' mistakes. Lately GW seems to be moving away from that though in an attempt to grimdark-ify things, but IMHO it ends up being kinda dumb since the Eldar's constant LOSING of everything makes me think they really should be friendlier with the Imperium, if only because everything else is out to kick their butts even more. Eldar are still traditionally at least allies of convenience with most Imperial factions, though (it's implied in fluff pieces that they don't fight side-by-side with them due to their pride and arrogance more than anything else, hence the lack of Battle Brothers status. "Of course, they didn't fight alongside the monkeigh, but they did coordinate together" or something like that was a statement in one piece, the derogatory monkeigh and "of course" implying that it's pride)

TiamatRoar wrote:
The Eldar and the people of Tallarm swore oaths of friendship, so they do get along in some areas depending on craftworld and planet and circumstances involved, and Harlequins perform their plays for other races including humans too so they won't repeat the Eldars' mistakes. Lately GW seems to be moving away from that though in an attempt to grimdark-ify things, but IMHO it ends up being kinda dumb since the Eldar's constant LOSING of everything makes me think they really should be friendlier with the Imperium, if only because everything else is out to kick their butts even more. Eldar are still traditionally at least allies of convenience with most Imperial factions, though (it's implied in fluff pieces that they don't fight side-by-side with them due to their pride and arrogance more than anything else, hence the lack of Battle Brothers status. "Of course, they didn't fight alongside the monkeigh, but they did coordinate together" or something like that was a statement in one piece, the derogatory monkeigh and "of course" implying that it's pride)

This is where I am at. The Eldar are a dying race and could use some allies to help them out and the Imperium stands to learn from the Eldar mistakes and could learn to use warp technology a lot better.

No, because friendship begets magic, which is mlp, which is heresy.

The tagline for the game is "and there is ONLY war".

NOT, and there is mainly war and bits of friendship. A universe where they got on would be far less accomodating for a "battle game".

 chromedog wrote:
No, because friendship begets magic, which is mlp, which is heresy.

The tagline for the game is "and there is ONLY war".

NOT, and there is mainly war and bits of friendship. A universe where they got on would be far less accomodating for a "battle game".

I play GK and do you know how many times I have fought an Imperial force? A lot and they are suppose to be my friends! But they're heretics so I have to kill them but friendship!

Humanity destroyed a Craftworld on "accident" once. That's going to take a long, long time to smooth over.

Also, Humanity believes that it is its manifest destiny to rule the stars unopposed. Any alliance between Xenos and the Imperium is, by its very nature, temporary at best. Humanity will, eventually, turn on its allies and wipe them out.

 chromedog wrote:
No, because friendship begets magic, which is mlp, which is heresy.

The tagline for the game is "and there is ONLY war".

NOT, and there is mainly war and bits of friendship. A universe where they got on would be far less accomodating for a "battle game".

so then.... Twilight is Tzeentch, Slaanesh is Rarity, Pinkie Pie is Nurgle, and AJ is Khorne? The rest are screaming crazy warp gods of a more specific kind.

It's more like. There is war except sometimes there is a small form of friendship but that will either be broken apart or quickly cancelled and allies backstab one another. Also the imperium is far too xenophobic to ever accept it and Eldar are too arrogant. Although it is possible to change this, it would take far too long.

The old saying "nations don't have friends, they have intrests" proably is the best way to understand human/eldar relations

Only fools believe that the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6afLCfgMI74

No; ironically, despite the overwhelming similarities between the two species (Humanity could easily count as the younger sister species of the Eldar), it is those same similarities that keep them from getting along. Humans and Eldar both consider themselves as perfect races alone worthy to rule the stars.

 StarTrotter wrote:


so then.... Twilight is Tzeentch, Slaanesh is Rarity, Pinkie Pie is Nurgle, and AJ is Khorne? The rest are screaming crazy warp gods of a more specific kind.

I'll have to take your word for it there. I have no wish to sully my forebrain with knowledge of mlp save for the fact that it (sadly) exists.

 chromedog wrote:

 StarTrotter wrote:


so then.... Twilight is Tzeentch, Slaanesh is Rarity, Pinkie Pie is Nurgle, and AJ is Khorne? The rest are screaming crazy warp gods of a more specific kind.

I'll have to take your word for it there. I have no wish to sully my forebrain with knowledge of mlp save for the fact that it (sadly) exists.

xD Honestly it was kinda pushing it to place any of them there. A world where there are things that will such out every emotion you have (usually while pretending to be somebody you care for) until you are a hollow shell devoid of emotion and slowly whithering away and gods of discord that sit there and just ruin everything and eternal night and timberwolves that grow larger by just merging with mother nature and hydras and wendigos that can make countries snow and freeze to feed on your hatred and sorrow as more and more of you die but in the end is won over by positive virtues doesn't really mesh well with this is ONLY WAR and there is no such thing as true allies for the closest we have to that involves Inquisitors nuking a planet of innocent civilians (guardsman and marines there to protect them) JUUUUUUUST to make sure that one pesky changeling daemon dies even though we know that daemons will just reform in the warp really mesh that well.

Just couldn't resist And oh dear I don't quite get why such a show damages your mind. I personally feel that a certain ork cheerleader is far more terrifying than anything else you could produce before me (and I've seen a lot in my life O.O from parents ruining their son's life leading to failed nerves in many limbs and lung problems to the gak aimed at children, to jersey shore (and I only watched small segments when I passed by), oh and those train wrecks where children are forced to be models by their parents. WAIT! That's why. Obviously the Imperium of Mankind and the Eldar are friends, it's all just a comedy for others to watch their vast ineptitude and stupidity as they both wastefully fight each other.

Jesting aside, yeah if they could ever possibly get along, and not secretly have plans to backstab eachother, they would probably function much more capably. Especially since it might at least slightly decrease raids by Corsairs and DE (not much though). Give access of the webway to IG and watch their response times jettison up and not have to worry about the astron and the sorts. Also, it might help with their entire problem with psykers! Maybe... Alas though, 40k is grimdark where hope (light) is set up to be crushed by the end leaving a small shard that continues the cycle eternally as this is merely a setting.

It doesn't really help matters that Eldar will let a world full of humans die to save a handful of their own, or that the Imperium has institutionalized xenophobia as a method of defense. They're about as friendly as they're going to get (which is to say, the occasional teamup can happen, but it'll get ugly when the last tyranid/necron/mutant corpse hits the ground...)

Three more factors:
1) the endless war between the Eldar Exodites and the Adeptus Mechanicus
2) the Dark Eldar raids.
3) the Eldar Corsairs attacks on human ships and colonies.

It is not only the Eldar Craftworlds we are talking here. For most humans all Eldar are the same.

 Envihon wrote:
...

And that is my justification to run a GK army with Eldar allies.

Have you read The Ghost Halls by LJ Goulding yet? While extremely short, it shows that the Grey Knight's have a very unusual manner in handling diplomacy with highly-sentient alien races like the Eldar.

Eldar view humans, and all other sentient races, as being little more than animals.

Humans have spent 30,000 years in perpetual conflict with insanely hostile aliens. The galaxy is not a friendly place, and any races that were friendly and peace loving have long since been eradicated.

Its not in your best interest to maintain friendly ties with aliens. There's a 99% chance they'll turn on you eventually, best to just kill them all and be done with it. Humans are xenophobic and for very good reasons.

Humanity is brought up to hate and fear the Xenos and this they do very well.

Eldar are brought up to believe they are the chosen race of the Gods, whose birthright was stolen from them and whose playground is now overrun by dangerous animals.

On occassions, each finds the other of use - but its seldom more than that....plenty of times when this happens but quite often one side (usually the Marines in my experience) turns on the Xenos and cleanses them.

Its the same with the Tau - the Imperium just can't co-exisit with an equal or superior Alien race. The Astartes are there to destroy such creatures on sight and in fact need a good reason not to.

Some elements could probably justify a suitably subservient race in the same was as Psykers, abhumans and mutants are tolerated - but purges are still likely to happen as different factions have more power within the Imperium.

No, because the Eldar view pretty much every other space faring race as insignificant insects that should only be used for the glory or gain of the Eldar race.

Also, they have many millions (60+) of years of history. They probably view Humanity as under evolved pond-scum.

Infact if Humanity had been around that long they would probably view other younger races the same ... (Tau anyone?)

 Mr Morden wrote:


Some elements could probably justify a suitably subservient race in the same was as Psykers, abhumans and mutants are tolerated - but purges are still likely to happen as different factions have more power within the Imperium.

All Humans will eventually become psykers, and seeing as the Emperor planned on conquering the Webway, the Navigators were probably slated for destruction. AFAIK, only one xenos race has been granted protectorate status by the Imperium, and that's the Jokaero, and only because they're both useful and no threat to the Imperium. Once either of those things changes for the worse, expect the skies above their worlds to darken with starships.

Mellow wrote:

Also, they have many millions (60+) of years of history. They probably view Humanity as under evolved pond-scum.

Infact if Humanity had been around that long they would probably view other younger races the same ... (Tau anyone?)

Funnily enough, this actually makes sense. Why would Eldar bow to a race whose ancestors hadn't evolved yet when they were re-shaping the galaxy itself? And why would Humans bow to a race that huddled in caves when men conquered the stars?

Humans and Eldar, so alike and yet so different, like two medieval lancers locked lance-to-lance and like two siblings fighting over a dead parent's inheritance.

They would never get along. The Imperium sees the Eldar as hostile and dangerous, and seeing as that the Eldar have frequently attacked Imperial worlds, they are absolutely right. The Dark Eldar and Corsairs make it even worse. Much worse. Would you want to be allied to the DE? Probably not. And seeing as that the Imperium does not know the difference between the Craftworld and Dark Eldar, I do not see any significant alliances ever happening.

Of course, they fight alongside each other sometimes to combat an even greater threat, and sometimes come to respect each other. So yes, alliances on a small scale do happen. But still, that does get the Ordo Xenos very suspicious. Humanity is just really extremely xenophobic.

For the most part they choose to ignore each other.

The eldar are much safer with humanity fighting chaos than they would be without so they choose to mainly leave the humans in peace. And ofc, wasting precious lives on fighting a race that might just get wiped out anyway doesn't make any sense.

And while they are a slowly dwindling race the power of the Eldar is still incredible and their memories long as the IoM has come to learn. The marine Chapter that sacked a Craftworld (by some mystical means unknown to mortals) was just about wiped out some centuries later in an Eldar vengeance raid. The only time a proper fleet attack against a Craftworld took place a whole sector fleet was lost. Not worth the cost to attack a race that usually stays out of the way.

Spetulhu wrote:

And while they are a slowly dwindling race the power of the Eldar is still incredible and their memories long as the IoM has come to learn. The marine Chapter that sacked a Craftworld (by some mystical means unknown to mortals) was just about wiped out some centuries later in an Eldar vengeance raid. The only time a proper fleet attack against a Craftworld took place a whole sector fleet was lost. Not worth the cost to attack a race that usually stays out of the way.

Not to mention the Imperium doesn't have the resources or the means to annihilate them. The last time they had the former was during the Great Crusade, and even then the Eldar could have just fled into the Webway. Which was one reason the Emperor was so keen on completing his Imperial Webway Project.

I understand this all but it is probably just my own personal preference since I really like the Eldar and the IoM, and seeing as I have read a lot books involving the Inquisition, it has shown that humans and Eldar can work together and it be beneficial to each other. An example that comes to mind is when Ravenor seemingly befriended some Eldar and gained their respect and I think is the reason why Ravenor's psychic abilities got so fine tuned and more powerful.

This is probably the reason why I play an Inquisitorial army with GK because they are the only faction in IoM that understands the power of the Eldar and that in the pursuit for the destruction of Chaos prove to be valuable allies.

Humans and Eldar (individuals) can work together splendidly, we have fluff for that. As a species, it'll never happen.

The entire Eldar race would only tolerate Humanity if Humanity said "we will help you get back your empire"

... which yeah, would never happen. ever.

Perhaps everyone would like the Eldar more if they stopped going "oh dear there's not many of us left" and started doing a bit more "right, we are advanced, lets go and exterminate some baddies with the least effort possible"