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How the Eldar see humans.
http://1-media-cdn.foolz.us/ffuuka/board/tg/image/1357/82/1357820973058.jpg

Temporary alliances? Sure.

But I don't see them being peaceful with each other.

Reasonably, but this was back in the day. This guy was proof of that.

That was when the Ultramarines lived on a desert planet and scavenged equipment from renegades.

I know, and it makes me smile as I go back and read all the things that have changed ever since that first edition. Things that changed like Leman Russ being a general and the Squa- [end transmission]

 Unyielding Hunger wrote:
I know, and it makes me smile as I go back and read all the things that have changed ever since that first edition. Things that changed like Leman Russ being a general and the Squa- [end transmission]

Squats are mentionable (but not playable) again, seeing as they're part of the list of abhumans in the BRB.

 Grey Templar wrote:
That was when the Ultramarines lived on a desert planet and scavenged equipment from renegades.

If you look at Calgar's magic hands, they still do.

 chromedog wrote:
No, because friendship begets magic, which is mlp, which is heresy.

The tagline for the game is "and there is ONLY war".

NOT, and there is mainly war and bits of friendship. A universe where they got on would be far less accomodating for a "battle game".

Stop talking about ponies, you're obsessed.

As for humans and eldar being friends I don't see why not. Matt Ward says that Necrons and Blood Angels are buddies so its possible.

Plus you can have them as allies in 6th so they're basically part of the same codex at this point as far as the rules are concerned.

 scarletsquig wrote:

Matt Ward says that Necrons and Blood Angels are buddies so its possible.

IIRC that was a bro-fist moment after stopping a fight to deal with a bigger threat together.

Pretty much the level of friendship the Eldar and humans have right now - they fight small-scale but know the other is too much to deal with if they want to keep what they have. The Eldar can't possibly stand against the Imperium if it put all resources against them, but doing so would leave every other front short-staffed and vulnerable. And the Eldar could put unimaginable hurt on humanity if they wanted but their own race would be that much closer to extinction if they did, leaving Chaos free to consume the galaxy. Ignoring the other as much as possible is the only sensible thing they can do.

In other words, the Soviets (the Imperials) and the Allies (the Eldar) against the Nazis (Chaos).

Once the grimdark gets grimiestuberdark they will find common cause to work together beyond a scenario basis. Until then, too much pride(Eldar) and ignorance(Imperium).

 Admiral Valerian wrote:
In other words, the Soviets (the Imperials) and the Allies (the Eldar) against the Nazis (Chaos).

This. I love this analogy a lot.

That Xenos scum cannot be trusted.

Ironically, the Eldar get along best with the Inquisition. Since the Eldar have such a hate-on for Chaos, and so does the Inquisition, they find themselves working together more frequently than most other arms of the IoM. That is NOT to say that they are bestest buds, but the Ordo Malleus and Ordo Hereticus don't have a built-in need to exterminate them (unless, of course the Eldar are the cause of whatever the Ordo Heretics is investigating). Ordo Xenos, being alien hunters, has the rockiest relationship with the Eldar and are most likely to just shoot them on sight (obviously; its in their name and all).

The broader Imperium is more hit-or-miss with the Eldar. Most Imperial institutions can't tell the difference between Craftworld Eldar, Eldar Corsairs (NOT the same thing as DE) and Dark Eldar. So when Imperial shipping is raided by Corsairs, the navy shoots at anything with pointed ears. When DE raid a colony for slaves, the nearest Craftworld gets put in the line of fire.

It doesn't help that the Eldar don't always realize WHY the humans are attacking them. They may not realize a DE fleet raided a planet, and the current Imperial assault on their Craftwrold is a misguided attempt by the humans to defend themselves. They don't realize this and just think its those stupid, violent, Chaos-prone monkeigh being barbarians again. So they zap the humans. And maybe they trace the humans back to their planet of origin and zap that, too. And a bunch of humans and a bunch of Eldar die because the DE were jerks.

This is what the DE do for kicks on a Saturday night.

Meanwhile, some threats show up that are too big to ignore or face alone. Recent fluff just has the Eldar showing up and doing their own thing, without any input or coordination from the Imperium (the Eye of Terror campaign book has this when talking about fleet battles, and the Armageddon book handles the Eldar the same way). Older fluff had them forming formal (but temporary) alliances with the IoM for the duration of the battle. I remember a White Dwarf a thousand years ago that had a short story of an Eldar Farseer coming up to an Imperial camp to negotiate with the IG commander... I'm pretty sure it was the issue that kicked off the Tyranid-based world campaign in 2nd Ed. Also, the original fluff for one of the Last Chancers models in the IG codex was that he stole an Eldar ambassador's vehicle during an important negotiation.

So, recent fluff makes Edlar/human cooperation more of a "I'm going to shoot that guy over there. The same guy you are shooting at, yeah. I'm not planning on shooting you, but if you mess with me while I'm shooting that guy, I'll totally shoot you, too." kind of thing. As opposed to the older fluff of "Okay, let's all go shoot that guy over there together, and let's work out a plan so we each benefit from everybody's respective talents. And we all know that there is no way any of us would dream of shooting each other while that guys is over there still waiting to be shot."

I do believe I do agree with you and it definitely would give the reason why the Eldar are Allies of Conveyance for the Imperium. I still think that at least the Inquisition and GK should be Battle Brothers to reflect the difference in knowledge.

You gotta remember the craftworld eldar are not a unified race, and varying groups have very strong feelings towards alliances. Look at Biel Tan for example, this eldar craftworld is dead set on the resurrection of their old empire which in their eyes can only be accomplished on the field of battle after driving off humans, Orks, and any other alien species who inhabits their worlds. (even worlds the eldar themselves don't live on.) On the flip side you have craftworlds like Iyanden who see no point in conflict with mankind, particularly over maiden worlds the eldar do not inhabit. They even show up to aid the humans in their wars against chaos in a manner similar to Ulthwe (albeit Iyanden has never released something like ghazgull on the iom) the other part of the problem is mankind, equal in arrogance and pride to the eldar and on a manifest destiny binge (meaning they want to conquer eldar maiden worlds too) which leads to open conflict between humans and eldar. Also not alot of humans can honestly spot the differences between varying groups of eldar. Craftworld, Dark, and Corsair all look the same to alot of imperial commanders and the eldar often fight alongside their kin adding the the illusion of one big piratical race. I like to believe the Imlerium and the Eldar can eventually openly get along, as they do make good allies like Ulthwe, Altansar, and the Imperium vs the 13 black crusade is a good example and there are others. Though with both sides being so arrogant towards one another (at least their governments anyway, in the path of the warrior korlandril actually didn't seem to want to fight humans. He simply knew he had no choice.) I don't see both sides coming to a real "alliance" for awhile. I think we'll just see more inquisitors making discussions with seers, secret oaths of friendship, etc etc. With the exception of Maugan Ra and Altansar who are near terra for what I think is an inevitable battle with the advancing Tyranids that are making their way to the golden throne.

Its that reason that I tend to favor Craftworlds like Ulthwe and Iyanden who see the greater threat of Chaos than the more bellicose Biel Tan and the Saim Hann who like to battle eldar and it is more about racial pride than anything. Like I have said, I found a justification for my GK/Inquisitorial forces to be bro-fisting with some Ulthwe eldar so I am comfortable with that. It would make it a little more boring if everyone just got along.

I thought I came across some fluff that stated there are Eldar farseers who believe that the Emperor is key to the Ruinous Powers not taking over... I could not begin to tell you where, though.

zbg97 wrote:
I thought I came across some fluff that stated there are Eldar farseers who believe that the Emperor is key to the Ruinous Powers not taking over... I could not begin to tell you where, though.

IIRC, in one of the HH novels Eldrad himself considered the dire possibility that the Cabal's Acuity was wrong, and that the Emperor had to win.

Aside from the xenophobic, genocidal theocracy of the Imperium, from a human point of view, eldar and humans should probably be allies.
From the eldar point of view though, humans are barely sentient, recently-evolved pond scum whose only purpose is to die in their thousands or millions to preserve a single eldar life.

There are only two scenarios in which I could see the Eldar and the Imperium come to a mutually agreed peace.

1) If humans accept that they're little more than animals and accept the natural right of the Eldar to kill or enslave them at a whim.

2) If the Eldar accept that they're all gulty of a multitude of mortal sins, witchcraft and being non-human sentients chief among them, and perhaps all commit suicide as an act of penance. A few could perhaps be worked to death as slaves as their atonement by more lenient local Imperial officials.

I don't really see any more feasible options.

Eldar while obviously only caring about Eldar to the point of driving entire Ork WAAAGHHHS into human space to save a single Eldar they only know that if humanity falls the Eldar are next on the chopping block.


So yeah if it meant humanity being wiped out the Eldar would probably step in.

Indeed we have this little gem from 3rd Edition Eldar "The Mon'keigh are our greatest enemy and our greatest asset"

I actually feel that the recent fluff of cooperation between eldar and IoM is pretty realistic. On one side you have extreme zealotry and/or ignorance and on the other side you literally have a species that views humans as smart animals whose value is a fraction of their own. The eldar are going to be more than happy to "work with" the IoM the only problem is that this tends to involve the IoM being sacrificed in the millions to save even a single eldar life. The only way for the IoM to prevent this is to distrust the CWE and step carefully. Honestly though of all the xenos factions the CWE are probably the IoM staunchest allies. All the other factions are either actively trying to kill or enslave them or want to annex their worlds.

I remember a line when Eldar Titans were first introduced where the Eldar commander explained they were not there to aid the Imperium but to destroy the Traitors and there was no actual alliance or indeed wish for either side to have one beyond the actual battle itself.

+1 to this ^

Titans from Iyanden marshalled on a world where the imperium fought with chaos.

"Make no mistake, human. We do not fight FOR your empire, but against chaos."