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I'm going for mobility and to exploit the stacking of It Will Not Die! with Blessings of the Omnissiah. Master of the Forge will of course sit in some ruin somewhere (turning into a Fortification) and snipe tanks with the conversion beamer. Each Stormraven will come in with a Stormtalon escort. Scouts in the Land Speeder Storm can Outflank and Blind a unit with the cerberus launcher and thin it out with the heavy flamer and take some bolter potshots - all in all, a fun unit for 105 points. Razorbacks are fragile and light, but hopefully by exploiting cover, IWND!, and BOTO, it'll dramatically increase their survivability, and the squad inside is certainly nothing to sneeze at, either.

HEADQUARTERS

master of the forge w/ the gorgon's chain & conversion beamer
155 pts

TROOPS

5x tactical marines w/ plasmagun
techmarine w/ servo harness & combi-plasma
sergeant w/ combi-plasma
razorback w/ twin-linked lascannon
250 pts

5x tactical marines w/ plasmagun
techmarine w/ servo harness & combi-plasma
sergeant w/ combi-plasma
razorback w/ twin-linked lascannon
250 pts

5x tactical marines w/ plasmagun
techmarine w/ servo harness & combi-plasma
sergeant w/ combi-plasma
razorback w/ twin-linked lascannon
250 pts

5x scouts
sergeant w/ melta bombs
landspeeder storm w/ heavy flamer
105 pts

FAST ATTACK

2x landspeeders w/ 2x multimeltas on each
140 pts

stormtalon gunship w/ twin-linked assault cannon & skyhammer missile launcher
125 pts

stormtalon gunship w/ twin-linked assault cannon & skyhammer missile launcher
125 pts

HEAVY SUPPORT

stormraven gunship w/ twin-linked lascannon & typhoon missile launcher
225 pts

stormraven gunship w/ twin-linked lascannon & typhoon missile launcher
225 pts

(edited to reflect board list guidelines; removed extraneous point values)

Servo harness comes with a built-in TL plasma-pistol. Unless you're intending to fire both at the enemy (not a bad idea, granted) you can save combi-plasma points on the techmarines.

At 1850 your pair of Ravens is likely enough AA. Perhaps consider swapping the Stormralons to more MM Landspeeder squadrons. That'll let you put Assault Cannons on your razorbacks to better compliment the anti-infantry duty of the marines they're carrying.

 obsidiankatana wrote:
Servo harness comes with a built-in TL plasma-pistol. Unless you're intending to fire both at the enemy (not a bad idea, granted) you can save combi-plasma points on the techmarines.

Yeah, that was the idea. I could have seven plasma shots from one of those six-man squads in a single turn, if necessary.

 obsidiankatana wrote:
At 1850 your pair of Ravens is likely enough AA. Perhaps consider swapping the Stormralons to more MM Landspeeder squadrons. That'll let you put Assault Cannons on your razorbacks to better compliment the anti-infantry duty of the marines they're carrying.

There's a thought. How prevalent are heavier vehicles, though? I thought the "general consensus" was that vehicles were somehow "bad" in 6th edition.

Their not bad, it just feels like all AV was down geared due to points. It is roughly the same though for most vehicles. Yeah some old lists that were fun are now useless, Kan wall comes to mind honestly. Vehicles are still strong now so just pack in that melta and laugh and laugh and laugh.

ACs, MMs, and the missiles on the Ravens make short work of vehicles in their own right, though I'd reserve the missiles for AA fire.

Okay, so updated list. Changed the twin-linked lascannons on the Razorbacks to twin-linked assault cannons. Swapped the Stormtalons for a second squad of dual multi-melta packing Land Speeders. Used the point savings to add a second scout squad in a Land Speeder Storm, and the last 5 points to give my Master of the Forge some melta bombs, because what else and I gonna do with a random 5 points?

HEADQUARTERS

master of the forge w/ the gorgon's chain, conversion beamer, & melta bombs
160 pts

TROOPS

5x tactical marines w/ plasmagun
techmarine w/ servo harness & combi-plasma
sergeant w/ combi-plasma
razorback w/ twin-linked assault cannon
250 pts

5x tactical marines w/ plasmagun
techmarine w/ servo harness & combi-plasma
sergeant w/ combi-plasma
razorback w/ twin-linked assault cannon
250 pts

5x tactical marines w/ plasmagun
techmarine w/ servo harness & combi-plasma
sergeant w/ combi-plasma
razorback w/ twin-linked assault cannon
250 pts

5x scouts
sergeant w/ melta bombs
landspeeder storm w/ heavy flamer
105 pts

5x scouts
sergeant w/ melta bombs
landspeeder storm w/ heavy flamer
105 pts

FAST ATTACK

2x landspeeders w/ 2x multimeltas on each
140 pts

2x landspeeders w/ 2x multimeltas on each
140 pts

HEAVY SUPPORT

stormraven gunship w/ twin-linked lascannon & typhoon missile launcher
225 pts

stormraven gunship w/ twin-linked lascannon & typhoon missile launcher
225 pts

Only other suggestion I have would be to drop the Chain for an Ironstone(?). The IWND buffer for vehicles. 2W models don't really benefit from EW, though the invul and FNP boost are nice if he comes under enough fire to warrant them, he's probably dead anyway.

 obsidiankatana wrote:
Only other suggestion I have would be to drop the Chain for an Ironstone(?). The IWND buffer for vehicles. 2W models don't really benefit from EW, though the invul and FNP boost are nice if he comes under enough fire to warrant them, he's probably dead anyway.

I'm taking it mostly for the 3++ save, as it's the only way for a Master of the Forge to obtain an invulnerable saving throw. Just in case a Tau player points markerlights at his fortification.

I love the Ironstone, but I love the conversion beamer more, which demands I position the MOTF as far away from the enemy as possible for the highest strength shot. In a ranged dreadnought heavy list, yeah, the Ironstone would be my choice.

j31c3n wrote:

I'm taking it mostly for the 3++ save, as it's the only way for a Master of the Forge to obtain an invulnerable saving throw. Just in case a Tau player points markerlights at his fortification.

I love the Ironstone, but I love the conversion beamer more, which demands I position the MOTF as far away from the enemy as possible for the highest strength shot. In a ranged dreadnought heavy list, yeah, the Ironstone would be my choice.

The point is that anything which would force the 3++ has a good chance of smashing through your 2W model anyway, so dedicating points to his survival is moot. You get more bang for buck putting him on a bike. +1T and Relentless for the beamer.

Admittedly, the primary reason I run the MOTF without a bike is because I love his model. A lot. I'll take the advice into consideration (note: I do not contest its correctness). I'll have to sleep on it.

Rule of cool is always a factor. If running him off the bike though, beamer is best left at home. Else he cannot move, and the rest of your army outpaces him.

Maybe I could convert him to be standing on a Disc of Tzeentch-esque hovering archaeotech platform. That would be AWESOME.

Or look into some Necron models for a kitbash. But now this is straying to the modeling discussion board.

Let's say I put him on a bike. Why wouldn't I also want an invulnerable save to avoid him getting stomped flat for easy Slay the Warlord points?

Because he gets a 5+ jink from moving. I mean, an invul is nice, but on 2W model you have to weigh how much of an investment is worth making when you're two saves away from death?

That's very true, but at the same time, he'd be the sole non-vehicle unit in my deployment. An easy pick for, say, a Tau railgun or something.

Unless he hides behind one of three razorbacks.

 obsidiankatana wrote:
Unless he hides behind one of three razorbacks.

Let me tell you how smart I am...

I'm really liking the troops setup. A bit pricey, but 7 plasma shots in rapid fire range is very sneaky. Well playedz


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Out of interest, how are you arming your scouts and why?

Cheers

Jamo wrote:
Out of interest, how are you arming your scouts and why?

Bolt pistols and chainswords. Land Speeder Storms are open-topped and therefore assault vehicles. Combined with a successful cerberus launcher shot to apply Blind to a unit (not to mention the heavy flamer), they'll mop up just about anything through sheer dice spam.

So... I slept on it, and I decided to put the MOTF on a motorcycle and give him the Ironstone, but I'm keeping the Gorgon's Chain on him as well - if he's moving up with my army and supporting my Razorbacks with the Ironstone, he's a keystone in my army, and he needs to have maximum possible survivability. In order to pay the points for this, I dropped the second Landspeeder Storm and its scout squad. I had 55 points left over, enough for a squad of scouts on their lonesome, but they'd get outpaced by the rest of the army at this point, so I guess I'll drop the extra points on unit upgrades - or would scouts be better for the points? I'm not sure. This list has upgrades, not scouts.

HEADQUARTERS

master of the forge on motorcycle w/ the gorgon's chain, ironstone, conversion beamer, & melta bombs
210 pts

TROOPS

5x tactical marines w/ plasmagun
techmarine w/ servo harness & combi-plasma
sergeant w/ combi-plasma & melta bombs
razorback w/ twin-linked assault cannon, storm bolter & dozer blade
265 pts

5x tactical marines w/ plasmagun
techmarine w/ servo harness & combi-plasma
sergeant w/ combi-plasma & melta bombs
razorback w/ twin-linked assault cannon, storm bolter & dozer blade
265 pts

5x tactical marines w/ plasmagun
techmarine w/ servo harness & combi-plasma
sergeant w/ combi-plasma & melta bombs
razorback w/ twin-linked assault cannon, storm bolter & dozer blade
265 pts

5x scouts
sergeant w/ combi-flamer & melta bombs
landspeeder storm w/ heavy flamer
115 pts

FAST ATTACK

2x landspeeders w/ 2x multimeltas on each
140 pts

2x landspeeders w/ 2x multimeltas on each
140 pts

HEAVY SUPPORT

stormraven gunship w/ twin-linked lascannon & typhoon missile launcher
225 pts

stormraven gunship w/ twin-linked lascannon & typhoon missile launcher
225 pts

Personally...this list looks like it would be an absolute blast to play with. Please let us know how this list performs as I wouldn't mind testing this out myself!

Mr. Raynor

The typhoon does a better job mounted to a Stormtalon than a Stormraven. Stick it with TL MM and LC or AC, the former for dedicated vehicle killing and the latter to give some infantry punch. Typhoon on a raven is a 25pt waste.

Having said that, drop the meltabombs on the MotF as well. He doesn't want to be in assault and have a conversion beamer. Any vehicles/MCs should be targeted by the appropriate arms, not him.

So that's 55pts saved. You could save another 15pts taking meltabombs off the squad sergeants (remember that servo-harnesses boast a pair of Str8 AP1 smashers, they'll make a good enough dent in anything the meltabombs might be used for), and another 15 shaving stormbolters off the razorbacks (debatable here, since it's a 5pt investment to protect the AC from a weapon destroyed result). That's enough to sub out the scouts for a tac squad with plasmagun, combi-weapon, razorback w/ AC and dozer blade.

You can put the 55 points of scouts inside one of the Ravens for late game scoring. I think that's a better investment than anything else for 55 points.

Alright, here we go. Trimmed down the extraneous meltabombs and dozer blades, retooled the Stormravens from lascannon and typhoon missile launcher to multi-melta and assault cannon, which in addition to being a simply better idea makes the whole army fit a better theme - melta and assault cannons on vehicles, plasma on infantry - which I am a big fan of. Used the points savings (100 pts) to buy a second Landspeeder Storm and scout squad. I'm a big fan of the cerebrus launcher and heavy flamer combo, followed by an assault. Might even be able to take out certain dedicated assault units with them, since the cerebrus launcher can make the whole enemy unit WS1 and BS1, so it's also good for debuffing high-risk long range squads! Utility!

HEADQUARTERS

master of the forge on motorcycle w/ the gorgon's chain, ironstone & conversion beamer
205 pts

TROOPS

5x tactical marines w/ plasmagun
techmarine w/ servo harness & combi-plasma
sergeant w/ combi-plasma
razorback w/ twin-linked assault cannon, storm bolter
255 pts

5x tactical marines w/ plasmagun
techmarine w/ servo harness & combi-plasma
sergeant w/ combi-plasma
razorback w/ twin-linked assault cannon, storm bolter
255 pts

5x tactical marines w/ plasmagun
techmarine w/ servo harness & combi-plasma
sergeant w/ combi-plasma
razorback w/ twin-linked assault cannon, storm bolter
255 pts

5x scouts
sergeant w/ bolt pistol & close combat weapon
landspeeder storm w/ heavy flamer
100 pts

5x scouts
sergeant w/ bolt pistol & close combat weapon
landspeeder storm w/ heavy flamer
100 pts

FAST ATTACK

2x landspeeders w/ 2x multimeltas on each
140 pts

2x landspeeders w/ 2x multimeltas on each
140 pts

HEAVY SUPPORT

stormraven gunship w/ twin-linked assault cannon & twin-linked multi-melta
200 pts

stormraven gunship w/ twin-linked assault cannon & twin-linked multi-melta
200 pts

Woah now, Dozer Blades aren't extraneous. I consider them borderline mandatory for mechanized lists. One poor roll strands your marines.

 obsidiankatana wrote:
Woah now, Dozer Blades aren't extraneous. I consider them borderline mandatory for mechanized lists. One poor roll strands your marines.

Couldn't I just avoid dangerous terrain tests?

In either case, what would you consider "more mandatory"? Storm bolters to guard against a weapon destroyed result, or dozer blades for dangerous terrain tests?

 j31c3n wrote:

Couldn't I just avoid dangerous terrain tests?

In either case, what would you consider "more mandatory"? Storm bolters to guard against a weapon destroyed result, or dozer blades for dangerous terrain tests?

A good board will make it difficult to avoid the terrain tests. And if you do entirely avoid them, you're telling your opponent exactly where you're going, and he will plan for it.

Which is more important? Depends on the roles your RBs are playing. Lasbacks like the bolters more, because they sit 48'' away. Flamerbacks like the dozers. I tend towards dozers personally because my RBs always go over terrain, but they don't always suffer weapon destroyed. I see it this way -> 1/6 chance of suffering weapon destroyed, 50% chance to avoid a bad scenario. 1/6 chance of immobilizing -> further 1/6 chance of it sticking.

Dozerblades it is, then.

HEADQUARTERS

master of the forge on motorcycle w/ the gorgon's chain, ironstone & conversion beamer
205 pts

TROOPS

5x tactical marines w/ plasmagun
techmarine w/ servo harness & combi-plasma
sergeant w/ combi-plasma
razorback w/ twin-linked assault cannon & dozer blade
255 pts

5x tactical marines w/ plasmagun
techmarine w/ servo harness & combi-plasma
sergeant w/ combi-plasma
razorback w/ twin-linked assault cannon & dozer blade
255 pts

5x tactical marines w/ plasmagun
techmarine w/ servo harness & combi-plasma
sergeant w/ combi-plasma
razorback w/ twin-linked assault cannon & dozer blade
255 pts

5x scouts
sergeant w/ bolt pistol & close combat weapon
landspeeder storm w/ heavy flamer
100 pts

5x scouts
sergeant w/ bolt pistol & close combat weapon
landspeeder storm w/ heavy flamer
100 pts

FAST ATTACK

2x landspeeders w/ 2x multimeltas on each
140 pts

2x landspeeders w/ 2x multimeltas on each
140 pts

HEAVY SUPPORT

stormraven gunship w/ twin-linked assault cannon & twin-linked multi-melta
200 pts

stormraven gunship w/ twin-linked assault cannon & twin-linked multi-melta
200 pts

Could you not drop a scout squad, maybe drop a speeder or two and build the chapter master of doom on a bike with the gorgons chain, AA and thunder hammer, this will help your master of the forge out as he can hide behind a razorback still, and he wouldn't be the biggest fish in the sea, along with making the chapter master the warlord as well, it won't be a case of giving up cheap VP for slay the warlord. Also, consider dropping one tactical squad to have a land raider as well, even better, hide the master of the forge behind that.