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Made in us
Morphing Obliterator






Virginia, US

So we all know GW loves their retcons, what do you think are the most egregious?

"I don't have a good feeling about this... Your mini looks like it has my mini's head on a stick..."

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Getting rid of Ollanius Pius.
That was the stupidest thing they have ever done.

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 sebster wrote:
Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens
 BaronIveagh wrote:
Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace.
 
   
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 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Getting rid of Ollanius Pius.
That was the stupidest thing they have ever done.


This. Definitely this. Ollanius Pius was probably the one of the most bad*** characters in the 40k universe.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/08 17:32:52


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The Omnissiah being the Void Dragon.

C'tans suddenly being everywhere, doing so much such as Abbadon being given Drach'Yon by a 'Golden Being' (Deceiver). Influencing everything and suddenly being the biggest bads.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/08 17:46:37


 
   
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The Last Chancer Who Survived




United Kingdom

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Getting rid of Ollanius Pius.
That was the stupidest thing they have ever done.

QFT

1d4chan:
Spoiler:
"LOOK AT THIS fething GUARDSMAN.
He's spent months fighting a grueling war in which his enemies are demigods allied with daemons, and now he's found himself in the closest thing to Hell he's ever known. He probably wasn't even supposed to get teleported up to the arch-traitor's battle barge in the first place, and just ended up in the wrong place at the worst possible time.
Somehow he's survived horrors beyond comprehension to make his way to the very bridge of Horus' flagship. He saw a veritable angel call upon Horus to answer for his crimes, and he saw that angel die as messily as any guardsman. His Emperor - who he fervently believes is a god incarnate, even if he's not supposed to - lies mortally wounded, and Horus, perhaps, has taken a moment to gloat before he strikes the killing blow.
His armor is slightly more effective than tissue paper, his weapon slightly more powerful than a flashlight. A single electrified claw from Horus' weapon is bigger than his entire body. He stands before a being infused by the dark gods' with incalculable power, that can and will obliterate his soul with no more effort than it would take him to swat a gnat. Nothing he can do could possibly make a difference.
He could run. He could turn his weapon on himself. He could give in to the insidious whispers that echo from the ship's corridors into his mind.
Ollanius Pius does the duty his Emperor requires of him. He dies standing and holds the fething line.
"


Spoiler:
"Naturally, like so much other awesome gak, Games Workshop has retconned him out of existence, first replacing him with a Spehss mahreen Terminator (Which wasn't that bad because it was an Imperial Fists terminator captain rather than a smurf), and then an Adeptus Custodes, which is SIX KINDS OF LAME. (While still less manly than a humble guardsman standing up to the most powerful mortal chaos champion in existence, still better than a smurf Custodes are mini-primarchs damn it!) feth YOUR CONTINUITY, GW, feth YOU WITH HORUS' TALON."
   
Made in us
Morphing Obliterator






Virginia, US

Ollanius Pius is definitely my favorite 40k character. ironic that the character that did the least amount of killing in the franchise about galactic war is everyone's favorite.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/08 17:55:35


"I don't have a good feeling about this... Your mini looks like it has my mini's head on a stick..."

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 Selym wrote:
 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Getting rid of Ollanius Pius.
That was the stupidest thing they have ever done.

QFT

1d4chan:
Spoiler:
"LOOK AT THIS fething GUARDSMAN.
He's spent months fighting a grueling war in which his enemies are demigods allied with daemons, and now he's found himself in the closest thing to Hell he's ever known. He probably wasn't even supposed to get teleported up to the arch-traitor's battle barge in the first place, and just ended up in the wrong place at the worst possible time.
Somehow he's survived horrors beyond comprehension to make his way to the very bridge of Horus' flagship. He saw a veritable angel call upon Horus to answer for his crimes, and he saw that angel die as messily as any guardsman. His Emperor - who he fervently believes is a god incarnate, even if he's not supposed to - lies mortally wounded, and Horus, perhaps, has taken a moment to gloat before he strikes the killing blow.
His armor is slightly more effective than tissue paper, his weapon slightly more powerful than a flashlight. A single electrified claw from Horus' weapon is bigger than his entire body. He stands before a being infused by the dark gods' with incalculable power, that can and will obliterate his soul with no more effort than it would take him to swat a gnat. Nothing he can do could possibly make a difference.
He could run. He could turn his weapon on himself. He could give in to the insidious whispers that echo from the ship's corridors into his mind.
Ollanius Pius does the duty his Emperor requires of him. He dies standing and holds the fething line.
"


Spoiler:
"Naturally, like so much other awesome gak, Games Workshop has retconned him out of existence, first replacing him with a Spehss mahreen Terminator (Which wasn't that bad because it was an Imperial Fists terminator captain rather than a smurf), and then an Adeptus Custodes, which is SIX KINDS OF LAME. (While still less manly than a humble guardsman standing up to the most powerful mortal chaos champion in existence, still better than a smurf Custodes are mini-primarchs damn it!) feth YOUR CONTINUITY, GW, feth YOU WITH HORUS' TALON."


I really like the poem.
Spoiler:
The first time I hold my blood in my hands,
The first time I see a man with nothing.
Would be the first time I see my own lands,
Covered in heresy, death, and rotting.

My son stands over him corrupt and pale,
A guard Ollanius Pius stands free.
My fallen Horus lifts the deadly flail,
In one instant, the strength of man I see.

This mere man done what I was unable.
A tear flows from my eye and it is clear,
The tyrant's cold reign I must disable.
Briefly I know what it is to feel fear.

I leave the future to the strength of man,
For they alone do far more than I can.

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 sebster wrote:
Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens
 BaronIveagh wrote:
Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace.
 
   
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on the forum. Obviously

Yeah, getting rid of Ollanius Pius was a stupid move.

A human standing up against a genetically engineered demi-god empowered chaos chaos is much more thematically and dramatically potent than another genetically engineered demi-god doing the same thing.

Also, Dolmen gates. It wasn't necessary, and it doesn't even make any sense. If a race can warp time and space and open up rifts in reality itself, they shouldn't have to steal another race's high-way to get around.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/08 18:00:17


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 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Yeah, getting rid of Ollanius Pius was a stupid move.

You can see why they did it though - they wanted to shift the fight from the Imperial Palace to the flagship of Horus (goodness knows why - I thought the story in the Imperial Palace with Pius was fine as it was). Be a bit difficult to have an Imperial Army soldier suddenly appear on Horus's flagship.

So personally I'd say moving the fight between the Emperor & Horus from the Imperial Palace on Terra & thus prevent having the ordinary human, Ollanius Pius, doing what everyone loves him for, replacing him with a biologically engineered superhumantypebeing.

 
   
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Inside Yvraine

I can't condemn the Ollonius Pious retcons because the entire story is dumb anyway. The Emperor saw one one of his FAVORITE sons get slaughtered by Horus, and this doesn't phase him. Yet we're supposed to believe that random Guardsmen #20183475 getting killed is what tells the Emperor "Wow Horus is so evil omg"? The Emperor readily sends millions of Guardsmen to their horrific deaths every single day, even in M.30. How many of those guardsmen were slaughtered before his very eyes just in the defense of Terra? Yes there is a certain "that's cute" inspiration from seeing a lowly Guardsmen stand before Horus, but that's something that the Emperor has seen a billion times. The story is whack.
   
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 Selym wrote:
 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Getting rid of Ollanius Pius.
That was the stupidest thing they have ever done.

QFT

1d4chan:
Spoiler:
"LOOK AT THIS fething GUARDSMAN.
He's spent months fighting a grueling war in which his enemies are demigods allied with daemons, and now he's found himself in the closest thing to Hell he's ever known. He probably wasn't even supposed to get teleported up to the arch-traitor's battle barge in the first place, and just ended up in the wrong place at the worst possible time.
Somehow he's survived horrors beyond comprehension to make his way to the very bridge of Horus' flagship. He saw a veritable angel call upon Horus to answer for his crimes, and he saw that angel die as messily as any guardsman. His Emperor - who he fervently believes is a god incarnate, even if he's not supposed to - lies mortally wounded, and Horus, perhaps, has taken a moment to gloat before he strikes the killing blow.
His armor is slightly more effective than tissue paper, his weapon slightly more powerful than a flashlight. A single electrified claw from Horus' weapon is bigger than his entire body. He stands before a being infused by the dark gods' with incalculable power, that can and will obliterate his soul with no more effort than it would take him to swat a gnat. Nothing he can do could possibly make a difference.
He could run. He could turn his weapon on himself. He could give in to the insidious whispers that echo from the ship's corridors into his mind.
Ollanius Pius does the duty his Emperor requires of him. He dies standing and holds the fething line.
"


Spoiler:
"Naturally, like so much other awesome gak, Games Workshop has retconned him out of existence, first replacing him with a Spehss mahreen Terminator (Which wasn't that bad because it was an Imperial Fists terminator captain rather than a smurf), and then an Adeptus Custodes, which is SIX KINDS OF LAME. (While still less manly than a humble guardsman standing up to the most powerful mortal chaos champion in existence, still better than a smurf Custodes are mini-primarchs damn it!) feth YOUR CONTINUITY, GW, feth YOU WITH HORUS' TALON."

One other good point that 1d4chan article makes is comparing Horus' killing of Pius to an adult killing a child (or something like that). Pius could literally do nothing harm Horus, but Horus killed him anyway. It nicely gets across just how far Horus has fallen, and is more brutal than him killing a super-soldier.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/12/08 19:38:27


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Made in us
Morphing Obliterator






Virginia, US

^ I read the same thing, I think it showed the Emperor that Horus was completely evil, by the fact the Horus killed the guardsman basically just for fun, he was harmless towards Horus.

"I don't have a good feeling about this... Your mini looks like it has my mini's head on a stick..."

"From the immaterium to the Imperium, this is Radio Free Nostramo! Coming to you live from the Eye of Terror, this is your host, Captain Contagion, bringing you the latest Heretical hits!"
 
   
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 Banzaimash wrote:
The whole new Necron fluff.


 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Getting rid of Ollanius Pius.
That was the stupidest thing they have ever done.

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 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
The Omnissiah being the Void Dragon.

C'tans suddenly being everywhere, doing so much such as Abbadon being given Drach'Yon by a 'Golden Being' (Deceiver). Influencing everything and suddenly being the biggest bads.



Wait huh? seriously the C'tan even gave the sword to Abbadon huh?


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Aaaaand Necron fluff in general. It suffers from I am the biggest and baddest bad guy ever and nobody can beat me. Then again I just miss daemons stuck in necrodermis

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/08 21:50:58


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 StarTrotter wrote:

Wait huh? seriously the C'tan even gave the sword to Abbadon huh?


That isn't confirmed.

Anyway, objectively the 5e Necron codex had the worst retcon(s).
   
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Ollanius Pius, also retconning a whole bunch of stuff with the excuse C'tan and blanks and then retconning C'tans and blanks.
   
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 BlaxicanX wrote:
I can't condemn the Ollonius Pious retcons because the entire story is dumb anyway. The Emperor saw one one of his FAVORITE sons get slaughtered by Horus, and this doesn't phase him. Yet we're supposed to believe that random Guardsmen #20183475 getting killed is what tells the Emperor "Wow Horus is so evil omg"? The Emperor readily sends millions of Guardsmen to their horrific deaths every single day, even in M.30. How many of those guardsmen were slaughtered before his very eyes just in the defense of Terra? Yes there is a certain "that's cute" inspiration from seeing a lowly Guardsmen stand before Horus, but that's something that the Emperor has seen a billion times. The story is whack.
The Emperor aided mankind when it was in dire need of help and mankind, in the form of Ollanius Pius, aided the Emperor when he needed help. You say 'So what, he's seen soldiers of the Imperial Army die before' and yes he had, but he also witnesses his favourite son strike down one of his others sons, who was able to fight back to some degree, yet Horus utterly annihilates Pius who can do nothing against him. He could have just swatted Pius aside but he brutally destroys him. Who is to say that it was that lone Imperial Army soldier's resolve to stand up to forces he could do nothing to stop that spurred the Emperor to strike Horus down? If Pius was willing to stand up to Horus then there was still hope for humanity and everything the Emperor had done had been to further humanity.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/08 22:44:19


 
   
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[DCM]
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Good thing 'Ollanius Pius' is back then!

WEll, at least in the BL HH series...
   
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As an immortal being, though. And that really runs against the appeal that a lot of people saw in him originally.

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 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Getting rid of Ollanius Pius.
That was the stupidest thing they have ever done.

While I'm not commenting on the awesomeness of Pius, are people aware that he is actually a retcon and the original character in that spot was an Imperial Fist?

I've never been a fan of the Dark Angels retcons. Not that the native American thing was excellent but watching an entirely new back story emerge to justify existing aesthetics is kinda odd. That and the current DA fluff is just garbage.

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Makari was awesome, if incredibly frustrating.

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 Kojiro wrote:
...are people aware that he is actually a retcon and the original character in that spot was an Imperial Fist?
Not quite (if I can get my head together & remember it correctly). There were a multitude of different stories about the Heresy and the Siege of Terra and the fight between Horus & the Emperor. One involved an Imperial Fist stepping in between the Emperor & Horus on the battle-barge, another was Ollanius Pius on Terra. The story involving the Imperial Fist terminator was altered and the Terminator changed to an Adeptus Custodes and became 'the' story of the duel between the Emperor & Horus.

Of course it's no surprise that people prefer the story about Pius (not Persson) because he was a mortal man going up against a super-human demi-God infused with the powers of Chaos. Whilst the Imperial Fist terminator also stood no chance he was a biologically altered super-soldier - which one will people relate to more?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/08 23:43:36


 
   
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Oh I'm not debating which is more heroic or easy to identify. Just that the first writing of the story (way back in I think, WD 145 or so when they did the very awesome free Horus Heresy mini game) it was an Imperial Fist Terminator.


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