did Ahriman rival Magnus

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**81Northman**

I wouldn't have thought so...Magnus was a Primarch...not just any either...he was the Ultimate Psyker...aside of the Emperor and maybe Horus after he turned...no one was more powerful than Magnus.

Malcador was the most powerful Human Psyker in existence after the Emperor...

**cygnnus**

81Northman wrote:
I wouldn't have thought so...Magnus was a Primarch...not just any either...he was the Ultimate Psyker...aside of the Emperor and maybe Horus after he turned...no one was more powerful than Magnus.

Malcador was the most powerful Human Psyker in existence after the Emperor...

I don't know that you could really call The Emperor "human" in that sense...

Valete,

JohnS

**Furyou Miko**

ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
No one really that is alive can compete with Magnus (Unless he forgets he's a Primarch again...), Yes Ahriman is a powerful psyker, maybe one of the best in the Galaxy, but still not on his level. But that's Ahriman's niche, why he is better then Magnus, Ahriman gets sh*t done while Magnus does nothing! Magnus is a pawn to Tzeentch, no matter how powerful he is, he is already lost. Ahriman is less so, he has ambitions of his own to become a god. The way I see it their is only one possibility that Ahriman could beat Magnus and that's with access to the Black Library. Then he'd have a fighting chance.

Also for psykers who compete with Ahriman (Excluding daemons, they don't count) are:
1) Eldrad, Does this need to be questioned?
2) The Current Lord deceiver (It takes some serious punch to become Abbadons pet psyker)
3) Maybe Tig, but Ahriman would win him.

No one else coms close really.

I dunno, Inquisitor Ravenor might be able to match him after training with the Eldar, surrounding himself in psi-boosters and so on.

He did take on an Alpha Plus psyker and win, after all, and Alpha Plus is supposedly Ahriman/Eldrad level (The IoM doesn't go above A+, I guess? No SSS-rank Hayate Yagami on their staff).

**ALEXisAWESOME**

Maybe, but isn't Ravenor described as both a Beta and an Alpa level psyker at different points in the book. No matter, if we where to make a top 10 of the strongest living human/astartes psykers he would be up there. Not sure about Eisenhorn through, he was never truly a powerful psyker.

**cygnnus**

Furyou Miko wrote:
ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
No one really that is alive can compete with Magnus (Unless he forgets he's a Primarch again...), Yes Ahriman is a powerful psyker, maybe one of the best in the Galaxy, but still not on his level. But that's Ahriman's niche, why he is better then Magnus, Ahriman gets sh*t done while Magnus does nothing! Magnus is a pawn to Tzeentch, no matter how powerful he is, he is already lost. Ahriman is less so, he has ambitions of his own to become a god. The way I see it their is only one possibility that Ahriman could beat Magnus and that's with access to the Black Library. Then he'd have a fighting chance.

Also for psykers who compete with Ahriman (Excluding daemons, they don't count) are:
1) Eldrad, Does this need to be questioned?
2) The Current Lord deceiver (It takes some serious punch to become Abbadons pet psyker)
3) Maybe Tig, but Ahriman would win him.

No one else coms close really.

I dunno, Inquisitor Ravenor might be able to match him after training with the Eldar, surrounding himself in psi-boosters and so on.

He did take on an Alpha Plus psyker and win, after all, and Alpha Plus is supposedly Ahriman/Eldrad level (The IoM doesn't go above A+, I guess? No SSS-rank Hayate Yagami on their staff).

Which, of course, brings it right back to the "who wrote it and what do they need for the plot?" point raised earlier...

Valete,

JohnS

**Furyou Miko**

cygnnus wrote:

Which, of course, brings it right back to the "who wrote it and what do they need for the plot?" point raised earlier...

Valete,

JohnS

Yes, but you may as well say "nothing is canon" and drop any discussion of the subject. The fact is that Tigurius, Ahriman, Eldrad... all of these characters' abilities rise and fall with the fortunes of the plot.

Edit: Anyway, all it says about Ravenor's power is that he was "Originally a high gamma, but... ... I suspected that he was much more powerful than that now." (Eisenhorn in Hereticus).

**cygnnus**

Furyou Miko wrote:
cygnnus wrote:

Which, of course, brings it right back to the "who wrote it and what do they need for the plot?" point raised earlier...

Valete,

JohnS

Yes, but you may as well say "nothing is canon" and drop any discussion of the subject. The fact is that Tigurius, Ahriman, Eldrad... all of these characters' abilities rise and fall with the fortunes of the plot.

Edit: Anyway, all it says about Ravenor's power is that he was "Originally a high gamma, but... ... I suspected that he was much more powerful than that now." (Eisenhorn in Hereticus).

Oh, I get that... Funnily enough, my son asked just yesterday if Thor's hammer could break Wolverine's Adamantium claws...

Valete,

JohnS

**Void__Dragon**

Furyou Miko wrote:

Edit: Anyway, all it says about Ravenor's power is that he was "Originally a high gamma, but... ... I suspected that he was much more powerful than that now." (Eisenhorn in Hereticus).

Only Ravenor is explicitly said in Ravenor (Which is after Hereticus) to be a low Gamma at best.

Ravenor also happens to usually get his ass handed to him by enemy psykers, as is the case with Kinsky or Toros Revoke.

**Zaki66**

raiden wrote:
tig and mephy are some of the most, (if not THE most) powerful pyskers the IoM has atm. saying they are "weak" is ridiculous. Tig fething blew open a hive mind, said "your going to do this? kewl, thanks, bye!" and walked out.

Just want to point out that IoM isn't the psychic-ally gifted faction in the 40k setting... by far. Eldar outclasses basic humans overall while Chaos-inflicted psykers are much more powerful than those of IoM due to their unrestricted ways and daemonic buffs.

**Formosa**

Malcador is stated in several hh books as being number 2 psyker in the imperium, but it's different types of power in my mind, malcador can stop a volkite charger from firing by stopping the mechanisms, Magnus would dissolve the gun, it's about precision of ability compared to raw power, I see malcador as a more skilled psyker and magnus as a brute force psyker, both are incredibly powerful in separate ways.

**the ancient**

Funny you should say that Formosa. I see Magnus as Picard. Tries hard but generally screws up one of the prime directives. Malcador, i put on the level of Erebus

**Void__Dragon**

Formosa wrote:
Malcador is stated in several hh books as being number 2 psyker in the imperium, but it's different types of power in my mind, malcador can stop a volkite charger from firing by stopping the mechanisms, Magnus would dissolve the gun, it's about precision of ability compared to raw power, I see malcador as a more skilled psyker and magnus as a brute force psyker, both are incredibly powerful in separate ways.

Specifically, Malcador is called (In Swallow's stories) the second most powerful human psyker, which Magnus may or may not qualify as. The statement also disregards that Malcador was killed after a day on the Golden Throne, which Magnus was meant to power indefinitely.

**Formosa**

Funnily enough void I think that the golden throne fluff fits perfectly, malcador simply does not have the raw power that Magnus has, on the flipside we can see that Magnus doesn't have the finesse and experience of useing the warp that malcador has, case in point malcador locks titan off for several thousand years and then sat in the throne, malcador also clearly has a level of foresight that Magnus clearly never possessed, different kinds of power.

**Void__Dragon**

I'm not sure that is entirely true.

The more I read about Malcador, the more he seems like an idiot with no foresight and bad judgement of character.

**Formosa**

He saw the heresy coming and told the emperor, not in a psychic way but in a "dude this is gonna backfire on you bra" kind of way, he had the savvy to build the grey knights and inquisition and keep the assassins around, he knew Garro, and the other "traitors" legionaries would be an Asset at a time others wanted them executed... That bloody good foresight to me, also not not all foresight is psychic.

Magnus it seemed had absolutely no ability to see the repercussions of his own actions.

**Furyou Miko**

The problem is that Malcador's foresight is an informed ability - we're told he saw the heresy coming, we're told he foresees this or that... but when it comes time to actually make him a primary character, you have to tone down all of that to make him human and less awesome than the space marines, and much like in Adam West's batman, the authors know they aren't good enough to make their heroic genius actually smart, so they settle for making his enemies into drooling idiots to make him look intelligent in comparison.

**Formosa**

Having read all the fluff on malcador I don't see any of his enemies being drooling idiots, nor do I see this bad judge of character thing people keep going on about, any examples?