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it seems like these 18 men were privileged compared to the rest of the astartes, and imperium citizens

is that fair?

i mean you get lucky to be born a primarch, (your consciousness) you get lucky and are born pretty much a demi-god superior to your legion etc.... more powerful then any other human besides your other brothers that equal you

18 men were more important then everyone else? besides emp

it just doesnt seem fair

Of course it's not "fair". Life isn't "fair". The galaxy is a cruel and uncaring place.

There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter to the mocking laughter of thirsting gods, for in the grim future of the 41st millennia, there is only war.

 Psienesis wrote:
Of course it's not "fair". Life isn't "fair". The galaxy is a cruel and uncaring place.

There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter to the mocking laughter of thirsting gods, for in the grim future of the 41st millennia, there is only war.

i know...but its just.......the chance of you (your consciousness, your "being) being born 1 of the 18 primarchs is astronomical...and yet what if you were born a primarch......

If you were a Primarch, you weren't "born", you were built. The Primarchs never had a mother, they were created in laboratories, directly by the Emperor. They are, in essence, his clones.

 Psienesis wrote:
Of course it's not "fair". Life isn't "fair". The galaxy is a cruel and uncaring place.

There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter to the mocking laughter of thirsting gods, for in the grim future of the 41st millennia, there is only war.

best tagline ever.....

its a shame 40k isn't as popular as star wars or some of other stuff, it has some of the best lore out their, albeit many of it is over the top, but still amazing stuff


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Psienesis wrote:
If you were a Primarch, you weren't "born", you were built. The Primarchs never had a mother, they were created in laboratories, directly by the Emperor. They are, in essence, his clones.

true, but a clone still has a "consciousness" a "being" like everyone else does... and the chance of your "consciousness" being one of a primarch is rare, but what if?

We are more privileged than anyone else in the 40K universe.

Considering how most of them had gakky lives...nope.

But "what if?" what? Your consciousness would be one of the Primarchs if you were built to be one of the Primarchs.

There's, literally, zero chance of your consciousness being anything but that of a Primarch if you were built to be a Primarch. They were, each one of them, some aspect of the Emperor.

true, but look....every human has a "consciousness, a being" that is seperate from everyone else

a human clone (which has been done before in real life) still has a seperate consciousness, and being (self-awareness) then everyone else like you and me

if the emperor created the primarchs, they would have their owns seperate consciousness

Is it fair to not have a choice? Is it fair to be created specifically to kill, and make war? Is it fair that it doesn't matter if your creativity, intellect or natural skill is to build, or make art, or plan cities, but you have no choice but to kill and slaughter thousands of peoples?

Is it fair to be born into a lifetime of slavery and a work prison (Corvus), or to be enslaved and forced into gladiatorial combat (Angron).

The primarchs did not have it easy growing up, and did not have a choice as to what their adult life was going to be. It didn't matter if they wanted to be an architect, or an artist, or a philosopher, or to just be left alone to die. They had no choice. They were going to war whether they liked it or not.

The primarchs are powerful demi-gods, but the life of a mortal citizen had to look pretty sweet to them sometimes. The grass is always greener until you look at things from someone else's perspective.

The "being" of the Primarchs doesn't exist separately from them, so it's not really a roll of the dice. You would not "be" a Primarch unless you were born a Primarch, so the consciousness that was the Primarch's had no other option than to be what it was. It did not exist before or after they did.

It wasn't like you were given the ability to move up the ranks to become a Primarch, so of course people would have their jaws dragging along the floors or a puddle around their feet had they seen one. I am pretty sure I am not the only person that likes the description of a Primarch in the Horus Heresy novels.

And if you have managed to unify an entire world or eradicate whatever may have plagued that world at the time (or in Guilliman's case, conquer a bunch of planets) then I think they are deserving of all the praise.

LibertineIX wrote:
It wasn't like you were given the ability to move up the ranks to become a Primarch, so of course people would have their jaws dragging along the floors or a puddle around their feet had they seen one. I am pretty sure I am not the only person that likes the description of a Primarch in the Horus Heresy novels.

And if you have managed to unify an entire world or eradicate whatever may have plagued that world at the time (or in Guilliman's case, conquer a bunch of planets) then I think they are deserving of all the praise.

so if the emperor came down to earth, with his 18 primarchs and thier legions of astartes

how jaw dropping would we be.? in reality

LightKing wrote:
it seems like these 18 men were privileged compared to the rest of the astartes, and imperium citizens

is that fair?

i mean you get lucky to be born a primarch, (your consciousness) you get lucky and are born pretty much a demi-god superior to your legion etc.... more powerful then any other human besides your other brothers that equal you

18 men were more important then everyone else? besides emp

it just doesnt seem fair

Um, what?

First, there were 20.

Second, they weren't born, but rather manufactured. Luck had nothing to do with it.

Third, related to the above, they were essentially blanks that took on the characteristics of their home planets, their "consciousness" is nothing like yours or mine. They are creatures of the warp poured into a human shape.

Four, life is not fair.

LightKing wrote:

LibertineIX wrote:
It wasn't like you were given the ability to move up the ranks to become a Primarch, so of course people would have their jaws dragging along the floors or a puddle around their feet had they seen one. I am pretty sure I am not the only person that likes the description of a Primarch in the Horus Heresy novels.

And if you have managed to unify an entire world or eradicate whatever may have plagued that world at the time (or in Guilliman's case, conquer a bunch of planets) then I think they are deserving of all the praise.

so if the emperor came down to earth, with his 18 primarchs and thier legions of astartes

how jaw dropping would we be.? in reality

I can safely say I would be fairly surprised.

If you were Guilliman? Sure, you're lucky.

If you were Kurze? Damn.

Or Angron, or Magnus, Mortarian's life didn't sound that fun. Also Lorgar's life kinda sorta later on sounds miserable and, if we wish to mention it, I might put mention to an individual such as Vulkan who evidently didn't want to be a warrior but did it because he had to.

LightKing wrote:
true, but look....every human has a "consciousness, a being" that is seperate from everyone else

a human clone (which has been done before in real life) still has a seperate consciousness, and being (self-awareness) then everyone else like you and me

if the emperor created the primarchs, they would have their owns seperate consciousness

Consciousness is merely the result of your brain developing and thus supporting such thought. There's no 'becoming' or 'born' a primarch. The Emperor assembled/magic'd them into existence as demigods which are creatures of their own entity. There is no chance of someone being 'born' a primarch considering you only are upon development of the brain- anything prior did not exist. You either develop sentient thought when your cells replicate assemble in the womb of your mother or someone stirs up a genetic and magic soup and the result is a Primarch.

Also, you really should just start reading the wikis more in depth (and the good ones at that) or the fluff (rulebook being an excellent choice), because frankly the threads you've been making have been asking rather basic, dumb questions fixed by reading into the fluff.

Of course you also shouldn't take the wiki word-for-word, as it's/they're a wiki.

They were of higher status than any other Imperial citizen, with the exceptions of the Emperor and possibly Malcador, yes. They were the sovereign masters of the Imperium's war effort, yes.

Not all of them wished to be as such, though.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
They were of higher status than any other Imperial citizen, with the exceptions of the Emperor and possibly Malcador, yes. They were the sovereign masters of the Imperium's war effort, yes.

Not all of them wished to be as such, though.

At least two of them wished they were as dead as the Dodo. Although Curze swung between being suicidally insane and homicidally insane.

Yeah, perhaps they should be required to perform some sort of check on their privilege.

I would say they were nothing like as privileged as many citizens of the imperium. Yes, there is allot of hard grinding life, but the more privileged, Noble houses, Navigators, Planetary and Sector Rulers, Rogue Traders, High Ranking officials of all types, etc live far more privileged lives. The Primarchs mostly had very hard upbringings. On top of that the expectations on them were massive. Yes, they were engineered to be gods of war, but what they had to do was still not easy.

If the Primarchs weren't scattered across space then they might have had very different upbringings and the Emperor would have been able to act and guide them the way he had intended.

When they were reunited with their father, sure, they had privileges above others as they are the Emperors Sons, but whether or not they wanted it is a different story. Angron was forced into leading a Legion when all he wanted to do was die on the Red Sands with his brothers and sisters. Mortarion was forced to accept the Emperor as his master after he failed to defeat the Lord of Barbarus.

But regardless of their upbringings and privileges the main reason they were created was to be warriors and generals and were expected to be living as such.

 Psienesis wrote:
If you were a Primarch, you weren't "born", you were built. The Primarchs never had a mother, they were created in laboratories, directly by the Emperor. They are, in essence, his clones.

Hmmm, and I wonder why there's a black one then (VULCAN)

Empy: Alright, who spunked in the test tubes?! feth it, making it anyway, can't be bothered to restart.

Salamanders aren't black as in African. They are black as in, hyper-pigmentation due to planetary radiation.

 Omegus wrote:
Salamanders aren't black as in African. They are black as in, hyper-pigmentation due to planetary radiation.

No, that's the result of one of their glands malfunctioning. Forget which gene-organ it is. Nocturne's inhabitants however are likely a natural dark human pigmentation from the intense heat and sunlight.

Although the Salamanders were better before they became literally black.

Otto Weston wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
If you were a Primarch, you weren't "born", you were built. The Primarchs never had a mother, they were created in laboratories, directly by the Emperor. They are, in essence, his clones.

Hmmm, and I wonder why there's a black one then (VULCAN)

Empy: Alright, who spunked in the test tubes?! feth it, making it anyway, can't be bothered to restart.

You know you can flip a couple genetic switches and make someone appear to be of African descent, right? It's not real hard... I mean, not if you're making people out of whole cloth, that is...
.... and, also, the Emperor is supposedly Turkish in origin, so he was more Arab than white-bread European anyway.

LightKing wrote:
it seems like these 18 men were privileged compared to the rest of the astartes, and imperium citizens

is that fair?

i mean you get lucky to be born a primarch, (your consciousness) you get lucky and are born pretty much a demi-god superior to your legion etc.... more powerful then any other human besides your other brothers that equal you

18 men were more important then everyone else? besides emp

it just doesn't seem fair

They live brutal lives of suffering and death, in an age of total carnage and slaughter.

Angron saw all his buddies get slaughtered, Curze was in pain since his teens, Gulliman cared deeply for his men and his subjects, and had them and his planet decimated around him, Ferrus was decapitated by his best friend, who in turn, was so horrified by what he had done he was possessed and enslaved by a demon. Vulkan was tortured mercilessly for months, Horus was blasted to ash by his father, Dorn saw his beloved father die, Sanguinius has his spine smashed by a demon and was murdered shortly afterwards,....

You were born in an age of plenty, when even the poorest are well fed, and you get to watch movies and sit behind a PC in a nice warm house while you eat cheetos....

It just doesn't seem fair.

You were born in an age of plenty, when even the poorest are well fed, and you get to watch movies and sit behind a PC in a nice warm house while you eat cheetos....

Eh... not *exactly* true but... I get where you're headed with that.

 Psienesis wrote:

You were born in an age of plenty, when even the poorest are well fed, and you get to watch movies and sit behind a PC in a nice warm house while you eat cheetos....

Eh... not *exactly* true but... I get where you're headed with that.

They are in the west, poor people are fatter than rich people!