Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Its starting to feel like my CSM army REALLY excels in CC, and as amazing as that is its of little to no use against an army like the Tau or the Eldar.

So I made a squad of Chosen x8 with 4 comi-bolters and 1 heavy bolter, 2 boltguns and the sergeant has a combi-bolter and a power sword. Would this be a decent defense against a shooty style army or would I be better off with using something else?

I use Chosen one of two ways:

- 5 Flamers
- 5 Plasmaguns

They are very good at shooting things that would assault them, and very good at shooting up things that they can then assault. They are not good at range, nor do I try to use them that way.

In terms of defense, they don't provide much value in that area against a shooty style army. Honestly, the best defense I have against Tau and Eldar are bikers / DPs / CLs / and the like. It's always best to field a big threat and use it to move your other troops up the board.

If you are going to spend the points on Chosen, you might as well get the big guns.

Edit: d'oh!

the CSM codex is pretty geared towards cc, we don't have much in the way of long range shooting besides defiler battle cannons and noise marines (and noise marines are salvo so moving is detrimental). However, Chaos in general has some pretty great fast moving cc threats. A pair of mauler fiends can be a great distraction so your other cc units can get into position as can spawn or bikers. Daemon allies also can take pressure off of your other units since many of them are beasts or cavalry, and all of them can deep strike. Chaos terminators could also be useful to you as a termicide squad, just load them up with combi melta or plasma (depending on what you want to target) and deep strike them where they can do the most damage, it will force your opponent to take out the terminators in their deployment zone and let your other troops move up the field with less guns shooting at them. The terminators are not likely to survive but as long as the rest of the army can move up they did their job.

I think the biggest thing is to play to not try and out shoot the shooty armies, as their ranged weapons are far better, but to play to your strengths and use a lot of big scary threats to divide the enemy's firepower. That is just my two cents and I don't claim to be a tactical genius or anything.

 techsoldaten wrote:

They are very good at shooting things that would assault them, and very good at shooting up things that they can then assault. They are not good at range, nor do I try to use them that way.

What he says. I just don't see chosen as a strong range counter. They are tough and can do some shooting, but not in a fashion as to counter a gunline-oriented army.
I think I wrote in your other post about the merits of chaos Predators. Autocannons + heavy bolters + missiles do the job vs infantry.
TL lascannon + bolters as Anti-Tank option. I would not use the sponsoon-based lascannons. In 99.9% of all cases you can fire only one of them at the target and only snapshots if you move. Heavy bolters can just spray away and don't waste so many points.

Also, what about warp talons and raptors? Get them into close combat and watch tau heads flying further than their munitions.

One thing to remember when fighting Tau is that your CSM can slap them silly using only their fists and teeth if they do get into CC, so never use a single point on giving them better CC. They're gonna win the fight either way. They don't need the extra attack.
Oh, it's only 2 points for an additional ccw? Who cares. You can get one more body for the unit if you don't get them those weapons. Maybe that's the guy that manages to get into CC.

Tau is hard to fight, and really no fun. It's his job to shoot you out before you can do anything at all, which is clearly not fun for you if he succeeds, and he excels at it.

Against Tau, you start at a disadvantage and then you try to work around it. If you manage, you will destroy him.

He has better shooting than you so you clearly can't win a trench war.
I have a theory that you should be able to bring one or two units into cc by shooting a path for them with the rest of your units, focusing the threats to your CC units and leaving the rest to shoot your shooters. The important part being that you don't need to try and get all your stuff into cc. You need to get a pair of units there only, because once they get there they will rip faces. Tau really can't fight using their hands. It's harder to work in practice than it sounds though...

I've never managed to beat my mate's Tau. I'm obliterated before I even get into combat. I think the most I've managed is a couple of bikers and what was left of a unit of CSM. So like 2 guys made it over the board against his gunline.

Been trying all year and tbh I have PTTSD.

Eldar at least don't have the range so you can get into CC as it's a fairer fight.

But CC are where we excel. Just a shame we don't get drop pods, LR variants or the old icon rules to help us get us there.

The Dimensional key thingy is pretty useless as I'm usually turn 3 before I've gotten the guy into CC and half the reserves are on the board if not all of them.

 Grumzimus wrote:


But CC are where we excel. Just a shame we don't get drop pods, LR variants or the old icon rules to help us get us there.

What about the Dreadclaw? Also, the generic Land Raider can get some units across the board. I too think it's a pitty that you don't get 60% of the Space Marines Armoury, but still... Also, there's that nifty upgrade that prevents any unit in 6" from firing overwatch that makes your assault move somewhat bearable, combine with assault vehilce and enjoy the slaughter.

 Kosake wrote:

 Grumzimus wrote:


But CC are where we excel. Just a shame we don't get drop pods, LR variants or the old icon rules to help us get us there.

What about the Dreadclaw? Also, the generic Land Raider can get some units across the board. I too think it's a pitty that you don't get 60% of the Space Marines Armoury, but still... Also, there's that nifty upgrade that prevents any unit in 6" from firing overwatch that makes your assault move somewhat bearable, combine with assault vehilce and enjoy the slaughter.

The standard land raider is poor, and not everyone allows Forgeworld, despite it's legality.

You'd be better off running those chosen as Havocs, and giving them 4 plasma and 1 combi-plasma. Far cheaper, same shots, still gonna punch out tau and eldar in cc. Regardless of chosen or havocs, you want to max out your special weapons and use them for a specific role. They're gonna need a rhino to provide some protection as well, or possibly infiltration via warlord traits.