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I bought 2 open fires, and a konigstiger hoping I can use them all in a standard panzergrenadier list. I can't, so are there any major differences that would stop me using the grenadiers and stugs as SS?

You can use nearly everything in a Grenadier list from the V3 rulebook, I've not been able to find another list that allows both Konigstigers and StuGs.

Are you referring to using the models as SS? For the vehicles there is no inherent difference between Stug in the SS and Stug in the Heer, it's just a matter of unit markings.

With regarding to the infantry I think the main difference between Heer and SS infantry is the Camouflage. SS camouflage smocks tended to have different patterns to the Heer.

But most opponents won't mind you using any German infantry as SS as long as they know and you've paid the right points.

 Palindrome wrote:
You can use nearly everything in a Grenadier list from the V3 rulebook, I've not been able to find another list that allows both Konigstigers and StuGs.

You mean the actual rulebook itself contains army lists?

If you buy the full V3 rule book bundle with the army list book and hobby book, you get basic late war lists.

However, you can get these list for free from the excellent Easy army .com, along with a few PDF lists.

Yay, Konigstiger without painting my infantry in the horrible pea dot camo!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, also...can anyone tell me exactly which list it is I want to use for panzergrenadiers with king tigers etc?

Any of the lists with the source "Flames of War v3 Forces".

Since I doubt you have any transports, you'll probably be looking for the "Grenadierkompanie (Heer)" listed under "Infantry Comapny".

Neither the Tank nor the Mech v3 Forces lists allow the use of Grenadiers without transports (either trucks or half-tracks), however you could look at those if you're thinking of perhaps using a more mobile force. Some of the manufacturers listed in the resources sticky at the top of this forum sell a number of the armoured half-tracks for significantly less than Battlefront do, so it might be worth checking them out if you're worried that cost might be a limiting factor.

I've found one that allows the use of grenadiers without transports, but I only have one platoon, the rest are all panthers.

I'm pretty sure all Grenadiers can go without transports. It's Panzergrenadiers that normally get trucks or halftracks. Grenadiers and Panzergrenadiers are two different things.

You don't actually need the transport models for Panzergrenadiers either. You don't have to actually deploy them although you pay points for them so its a bit of a waste.

With two sets of Open Fire infantry you can use all the infantry teams with the LMG figures to get 2 platoons of MG teams, and two platoons w Rifle teams or one larger one like Pios and a small one like recon.

SS Usually has all MG teams instead of mixed R/MG teams (three teams w rifles, three w LMGs per platoon)

If you pick up a PSC box of SdKfz251 halftracks you can make one platoon Gepanzerte PanzerGrenadiers.

The 17thSS PDF will let you use 2 platoons of MG teams, a platoon of three ATGs, 2 platoons of three Fearless Veteran StuG, and a platoon of Grenadiers for 1280pts.


You can also use the Estonian-SS PDF with 3 platoons of R/MG teams, 3 Pak40s, 5 StuGs, and a scout squad of 3 Rifle teams for 1220pts.
Three panzerfaust upgrades will get you to 1250pts.

Here's a list using the 6th SS Gebirgs PDF
HQ 1iC/2iC Smg/pzft w 2 PzSchk (Fearless Veterans unless noted)
SS Gebirgs full (R/MG teams)
SS Gebirgs full (R/MG Teams)
Gebirgs Scout full (rifle teams)
SS PanzerGrens Full (MG teams)
ATG platoon w 4 Pak40
Looted Panzer plt w 3 M4s (Fearless/Trained)
Volks Assaultgun Plt w 3 StuG IV (Reluctant/Trained)

1785pts

There are even a few Panzergrenadier list for which their rides are a separate purchase (can't point to any of the top of my head).
I also am looking at picking up a second box of Open Fire! just so that I can have full MG teams (though I'm sure the guys at my FLGS won't care if Rifle/MG's are acting as MG).

Anpu-adom wrote:
I also am looking at picking up a second box of Open Fire! just so that I can have full MG teams (though I'm sure the guys at my FLGS won't care if Rifle/MG's are acting as MG).

Yeah, I have never, ever met anyone who had a problem with someone playing R/MG teams as MG teams or vice-versa. To be quite honest, the vast majority of players probably won't be paying that much attention to your infantry anyway. As long as you know what you've got and are honest and consistent it shouldn't be an issue.

 LuciusAR wrote:
Are you referring to using the models as SS? For the vehicles there is no inherent difference between Stug in the SS and Stug in the Heer, it's just a matter of unit markings.

With regarding to the infantry I think the main difference between Heer and SS infantry is the Camouflage. SS camouflage smocks tended to have different patterns to the Heer.

But most opponents won't mind you using any German infantry as SS as long as they know and you've paid the right points.

You could also field elite Heer units like Grossdeutchland or Lehr Divisions by using SS lists. All you get with ther SS upgrade for the most part are morale quality upgrades and FoW makes the understandable simplication that Herr are trained veterans, and SS are fanatic veterans.