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 Illumini wrote:
Warhounds don´t have holo fields or can move 36" in a turn. A lascannon has the same chance of causing at least 1 HP damage on the eldar titan and a warhound (of course better chance of causing more HP´s). Gravguns and melta in meltarange are better against the warhound.

Can´t wait to actually test escalation

They do have 2 void shields, cost 180 points less and come in an army with the best bubblewrap/anti-air in the entire game though, so there's that. It'll just be the amazing war of "who goes first".

FW list is here:
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/L/lordsofwar.pdf

But yeah, as I say, Vampire Hunter is pretty dumb too. TL pulsar on an AV11 flyer with 12 HP and eldar titan holofields, all for 730 points? That's really stupid.

EDITS: A million typos

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/L/lordsofwar.pdf

Forgot the shields.

And it is quite cheap too, 750pts with 4xD, right?

 jy2 wrote:

Eyjio wrote:
Well, Reavers were just added in the FW update and Eldar got their silly broken tanks too. If you needed any reason not to use Escalation, that's about as good as it gets. Oh, and the Warhound was also readded, so now you can get AV14 for your 4 Str D blast spewer and spend less points.

Yeah, I vote we don't listen to the FW stuff unless you want to play IG+warhound titans:the game.

EDIT: Actually, they added the Vampire Hunter too, so it'll still be 100% Eldar, 100% of the time.

Wow, so soon? And a Reaver as well? I expected the Warhound, but a Reaver?!?

It isn't so bad, however. The Reaver is about 1450 or so. He is not viable in a 1750 game. He is barely viable at 2K. Just send FMC daemons against the reaver and the Reaver-army has got practically no chance.

Or send a stormraven/thunderhawk his way. Then once, they get close enough, disembark and assault to tie it up for the rest of the game.

BTW, do you have a link to the FW updates? Please share with all the readers.

 Illumini wrote:
Warhounds don´t have holo fields or can move 36" in a turn. A lascannon has the same chance of causing at least 1 HP damage on the eldar titan and a warhound (of course better chance of causing more HP´s). Gravguns and melta in meltarange are better against the warhound.

Can´t wait to actually test escalation

The warhound does have AV14 which does make him more resilient vs S7/8 guns.

And it's got a couple of Void Shield as well.

They also added the phantom. He's 2.5k though.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

They also added the phantom. He's 2.5k though.

Now the problem will be how can I fit him into my 1750 list and still have room for a viable army.

EDIT: slowpoke.jpg

jy2, is this going to throw off your planned tactica? Is this one still valid, even?

 Talore wrote:
EDIT: slowpoke.jpg

jy2, is this going to throw off your planned tactica? Is this one still valid, even?

I don't see why it would. The only change might be getting the Pulsar flyer into the game instead of the Revenant. Since the playing field is slightly more even now (since now imperial armies can take warhounds), it makes everything slightly better. Still, if I were a TO I would not allow D-weapons into my tournament.

 Talore wrote:
EDIT: slowpoke.jpg

jy2, is this going to throw off your planned tactica? Is this one still valid, even?

No, it won't and yes, my lists are still valid (especially the one with the Void Shield Generator). The Revenant is still arguably one of the best titans at 2K or less.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

 McNinja wrote:

 Talore wrote:
EDIT: slowpoke.jpg

jy2, is this going to throw off your planned tactica? Is this one still valid, even?

I don't see why it would. The only change might be getting the Pulsar flyer into the game instead of the Revenant. Since the playing field is slightly more even now (since now imperial armies can take warhounds), it makes everything slightly better. Still, if I were a TO I would not allow D-weapons into my tournament.

The elder flyer is good, but even its got its drawbacks. Firstly, it has to start off in Reserves, and if you don't have an Autarch in your army, there's a chance it may come in later. Secondly, as with all flyers, you can predict its flight paths and take advantage of that if you've got the mobility. Lastly, it's got to fly off the board eventually as it runs out of space to maneuver/targets to shoot. That means there's most likely going to be at least 2 turns when it can't fire.

But you know what it's biggest flaw is? Its twin-linked pulsars are blasts and still cannot fire at flyers/FMC's.

This may be crazy talk, but I think the D on the revenant is scarier than the D on the phantom. I mean, the revenant's D can slap each unit twice if it splits targets, but the phantom can only hit a unit once with his D.

The Phantom does come with Anti-Air though, so that's something right there. It's not D though.

Can't it start on the stronghold sky pad for like 10pts or something???


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Can't it start on the stronghold sky pad for like 10pts or something???

I havent seen the escalation book yet but if someone wants to bring a titan to my game I will bump the points limit to 3000pts and stick a warlord on my board edge laughting. Nothing says die more than a vortex missile!

Warlord Titans are 4k points...

When did they put the points up for that? :-/ I thought they were 2500pt?

He's thinking of the Emperor Titan. Anyways, Warlord Titans weren't included as a Lord of War.

Haha thats a relief lol.
:-/ so only the units in the book can be taken as lords of war? Am not impressed o well. It will have to be melta/demo vets in vendettas then. Metla bombs all around :-)

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
This may be crazy talk, but I think the D on the revenant is scarier than the D on the phantom. I mean, the revenant's D can slap each unit twice if it splits targets, but the phantom can only hit a unit once with his D.

The Phantom does come with Anti-Air though, so that's something right there. It's not D though.

What do you mean? The Phantom has 8 D shots, 4 from each gun.

Painnen wrote:
Can't it start on the stronghold sky pad for like 10pts or something???


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Can't it start on the stronghold sky pad for like 10pts or something???

Any titan can start on a skypad as long as it can fit.

Problem is, do you want the skypad or the Void Shield Generator? I'm not sure you can take more than 1 fortification in a single-FOC game.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Warlord Titans are 4k points...

Has the Warlord been updated in the new Apoc? In the previous edition of Apoc. they were 2.5K. I haven't seen new rules for them yet for the new Apoc.

Useless Sidekick wrote:
When did they put the points up for that? :-/ I thought they were 2500pt?

Gah, sorry. I was thinking of the Emperor Battle Titan. Yeah, the Warlord is around 2.5k

Now question is...do you have a model? Speaking of models, wouldn't be a bit more inconvenient to lug a super heavy to a FLGS now? I think Transcendent C'tan might be the most convenient to transport.

To answer Jy2's question, no, oddly enough, they are not. I looked for them as well, and I could only find the entries for Warhound and Reaver. In other words, models that already exist.

I'm just going to go ahead and blame Kirby for that...

Yeah, my mistake about the phantom. I can't believe I keep missing the entry for the Phantom Pulsar like that >.<

Lots of derp today on my part.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/568137.page
This is a little list I put together for the phantom. It's hard to know whether or not it's worth the extra points but I'm guessing the extra durability and skyfire kind of make up for it. You can still fit ten msus with it at 3k if you're frugal. I'm intrigued to see the mathhammer on 24 hull points with titan holo fields and 13/13/11 armour. If not for being on my phone I'd probably have a go.

thisisnotaseriousaccount wrote:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/568137.page
This is a little list I put together for the phantom. It's hard to know whether or not it's worth the extra points but I'm guessing the extra durability and skyfire kind of make up for it. You can still fit ten msus with it at 3k if you're frugal. I'm intrigued to see the mathhammer on 24 hull points with titan holo fields and 13/13/11 armour. If not for being on my phone I'd probably have a go.

The Phantom Titan just isn't a viable unit in normal 40K. It is just too unbalancing. The games will go like this - it will destroy 80% of the armies that it goes up against but will lose miserably to the 20% that counters it, namely, flyer/FMC builds.

Your 3K build with the Phantom has no answers to FMC builds whatsoever. It is almost an auto-lose against FMC daemons or even tyranids with the Harridan.

Stormravens and the thunderhawk can take it out of commission quickly with an assault from the units within.

Also, at 3K, I'd bring a Void Rely Network with 3 Void Shield Generators. For 340-pts, that's 9 void shields that it generates. That's enough to stuff the 8 D-shots that the Phantom brings.

Make no mistake, the Phantom is a devastating titan. However, it needs adequate support for it to work properly. 500-pts is just not enough units to support the Phantom.

I have started to build one the body is done just needs the details putting on it and I have started on the legs. Am trying to work out which weapons and how to make them :-) its my first scratch build (straight in at the deep end). The head is going to be a nightmare lol.
Haha you are right aboot the transport tho I am making it so it can come apart so that wont be too much of a problem.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/L/lordsofwar.pdf

Actually in some ways it helps to balance out the OP in the escalation. As it was the Eldar and Necrons were head and shoulders above the rest. Now it is just all titans and GMC that are head and shoulders above almost everything not a LoW.

The LoW daemons are really awesome models btw. I don't mind getting pwned by that beauty.

Needs more armpit hair.

tbh, witht that add on of forgeworld the pylon is one of the best in the game, and it will kill a revenant upon entry, only costs 400ish points either

The pylon isn't that good because it doesn't have a blast on the D weapon. It will shine if the opponent brings a super-heavy since you can eat through most things quite easily, and is also decent against enemy tanks as long as it does not die too quickly, but against something like horde Orks, it simply isn't worth the points. Immobility makes it easy to exploit once it lands as well. It's not bad by any means, but there are better ways to drop 400ish points.

Speaking of the FW lords of war update, words cannot describe how much I, upon seeing that a Chaos Tunderhawk can be fielded by servants of decay armies, wanted to charge a horde of zombies out of the thunderhawks assault ram, straight into combat with a nasty Revenant!

jy2, in a hypothetical scenario where SD weapons are banned, what do you think the strongest super-heavy or gargantuan is?

 Valek wrote:
tbh, witht that add on of forgeworld the pylon is one of the best in the game, and it will kill a revenant upon entry, only costs 400ish points either

I wish. On average it hits twice, one of those bounces off the holofields and the other does ~4 HP. It's not bad (IMO it should be the model of D weapons - single shots, no blast) but it's far shy of killing any Super Heavy in 1 shot. Devastating in actual Apocalypse when you take 3 or 4 though.

Useless Sidekick wrote:
I have started to build one the body is done just needs the details putting on it and I have started on the legs. Am trying to work out which weapons and how to make them :-) its my first scratch build (straight in at the deep end). The head is going to be a nightmare lol.
Haha you are right aboot the transport tho I am making it so it can come apart so that wont be too much of a problem.

Nice. Would love to see the it when you're done. Unfortunately, I'm not much of a builder than I am a buyer. Lol.

 ansacs wrote:
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/L/lordsofwar.pdf

Actually in some ways it helps to balance out the OP in the escalation. As it was the Eldar and Necrons were head and shoulders above the rest. Now it is just all titans and GMC that are head and shoulders above almost everything not a LoW.

The LoW daemons are really awesome models btw. I don't mind getting pwned by that beauty.

Spoiler:

Wow, that sure was quick. Highly uncharacteristic of GW. I'm not sure what all the rush is but, at least now every army will have a fighting chance. That is also going to make my next tacticas much more interesting with all the choices available out there right now.

Yeah, I love the LoW daemons. I've got a few myself (with 1 count-as).

 Valek wrote:
tbh, witht that add on of forgeworld the pylon is one of the best in the game, and it will kill a revenant upon entry, only costs 400ish points either

For its price, it's not bad. It's better when dealing with elite and flyer armies - armies with big, flying and/or expensive units - but it's drawback is when it goes up against horde armies.

Now that Void Shields will be a common part of the game, it's highly unlikely to kill a Revenant in 1 turn.

thisisnotaseriousaccount wrote:
The pylon isn't that good because it doesn't have a blast on the D weapon. It will shine if the opponent brings a super-heavy since you can eat through most things quite easily, and is also decent against enemy tanks as long as it does not die too quickly, but against something like horde Orks, it simply isn't worth the points. Immobility makes it easy to exploit once it lands as well. It's not bad by any means, but there are better ways to drop 400ish points.

Speaking of the FW lords of war update, words cannot describe how much I, upon seeing that a Chaos Tunderhawk can be fielded by servants of decay armies, wanted to charge a horde of zombies out of the thunderhawks assault ram, straight into combat with a nasty Revenant!

jy2, in a hypothetical scenario where SD weapons are banned, what do you think the strongest super-heavy or gargantuan is?

3 units will/can potentially dominate: the Hierophant Bio-titan, An'ggrath (the FW Bloodthirster) and Aetos (the FW Lord of Change). Without D weapons, these Gargantuans will be the nastiest creatures around.

Fortunately, they are vulnerable to Instant Death (causes D3 Wounds). That means a unit of paladins with mostly hammers can actually kill one of these big beasties.

Jy2 have you looked at the cobra CWE SH (IA: Apoc 2013) yet? That beauty should have some major effect on your SH lists from here on.

It is the anti SH meta in and of itself. It is also pretty good against everything else. Perhaps not as not versatile in its abilities as a revenant but when you expect a bunch of void shields, GMC, and SH then it sure is nasty.

Yeah, the Cobra is sweet - both the model and the rules. Imagine a 10" D blast that doesn't need LOS and can be twin-linked as well. There is just no hiding from this beast!

It's a great SH for those who don't want to abuse the game with the Revenant. But the Cobra (or Scorpion) compared to the Revenant is like a Shadowsword compared to a Warhound. If you want to have a little mercy to your opponent, you take the Cobra. If you don't, take the Revenant.

BTW, I have the Cobra and it rocks!


With the Cobra, I'd probably run a list like this at 1750:


Cobra - Scatter Lasers (it doesn't even need Guide or Prescience with Scatter Lasers! Lol.)

Autarch - Jetbike, Fusion, Laser Lance, Mantle of the Laughing God

3x Jetbikes - Shuriken Cannon
3x Jetbikes - Shuriken Cannon
3x Jetbikes - Shuriken Cannon
3x Jetbikes - Shuriken Cannon
3x Jetbikes - Shuriken Cannon
3x Jetbikes - Shuriken Cannon

Crimson Hunter
Crimson Hunter
Vyper – Scatter Lasers

War Walker – 2x Brightlance
War Walker – 2x Scatters

Void Shield Generator - 3x Shields

 jy2 wrote:

Belly wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
(or as I call them, Revdar).

Stop trying to make 'Revdar' happen. It's not going to happen

LOL! Good one.

Costs and availability of the Revenant will probably keep most people away initially, but after FW ramps up production (if they haven't done so already), you're going to see Revdar happen whether we like it or not.

I believe he meant the term 'revdar'. He doesnt think its a good term.

Which i disagree with. Revdar works for me

Well it is certainly better than Eldant

I am thinking you and reece need to try a game of cobra vs revenant. See if the cobra based list can be a good anti titan meta list.

Are we going to get to see more Jy2 GMC batreps with those great looking daemons. That would be fantastic.

The Lynx for 320 points outclasses the Scorpion, Cobra and Revenant point by point. I think that unless specifically trying to cram in as a big of a Lord of War for the single slot as the points limit reasonably allows, the Lynx gives by far the most damage and survivability for the buck. Usually just being extremely points efficient throughout your army list is the surest way to a tournament victory. What the Lord of War slot can give you tactically is a strength D weapon that can easily remove threats that no other weapon type can remove, but I don't see the point in overspending and making your army more and more of a gimmick that loses occasionally in the game of rock, paper & scissors.