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 Void__Dragon wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:


Relax, Beavis, it was a joke, because there are several chapters of the Ravenor series that Gideon, himself, was not present at. The Eisenhorn series does not feature these things, as it is Gregor's own autobiography.

Calm down, I was playing the comically serious in this case.

Ravenor, however, cannot take an SOB in hand to hand if she passes her Deny the Witch roll. If that happens, he's fethed, since he's just a lump of burned meat in a box.

He is in a case made of Wraithbone, and has shown that he can crush people by propelling his chair forward, or just fire his Psycannons.

Also, gameplay mechanics huh? I don't care how well their Deny the Witch Roll goes, when he hits them in the face with a semi, they are going to feel it.

And if we were not permitting psychic powers in the first place, then he's really fethed.

Much like the Sisters would be if I arbitrarily disallowed their powered armour and bolters.

If we're not permitting any gear, Gideon Ravenor is a burned lump of meat. He's nothing without his chair (which is not Wraithbone, incidentally, it is of Imperial manufacture).

His Psycannons require his telekinetic powers to function. If we're dismissing the use of psychic powers (because this is a hand-to-hand fight) then he can't even pull the triggers.

As we saw with his fight with the Tyranid, his chair isn't exactly a tank. It can stop small-arms, sure, but a bolter will probably tear it apart.

And I could as easily say "Ravenor, however, cannot take an SOB in hand to hand if her mental fortitude and faith allows her to ignore his psychic abilities. If that happens, he's fethed, since he's just a lump of burned meat in a box"
The Chair also cannot crush people. The best he's ever done with it is pin someone against a wall, which you could do with a regular office chair or a shopping cart. It's not equipped with a dozer blade.

Void__Dragon wrote:You are aware that you would need to be faster to block a bullet from up close than far away, correct?
I assume you can't do it from far away because you have no real notion of where the bullet is coming from nor can you see the rather small bullet itself.

I think the reasoning behind this was an alternative form of parrying - you're moving your blade to counter the opponent's (essentially placing an obstacle before the barrel), just that your opponent is using a gun instead of a melee weapon.

Anyways, I thought I saw a discussion about superior reflexes and dodging bullets, and then the mention of the Deflect Shot talent, so I thought this needed clarification.

It's worth pointing out that in Inquisitor, Dodging ranged weapons is a special talent as well. Everyone can attempt to dodge melee attacks, but just like Deflect Shot you need to be "special" in order to react to a gunshot.

Void__Dragon wrote:I don't really like to argue for or against mechanics, especially not in a system where a Space Marine throwing his bolter apparently does more damage than firing it (Is this true?)

Mechanics are a double-edged sword, of course, but I like them because in games that cater to multiple sorts of characters, they tend to treat everyone fairly - the same cannot be said about the fluff, which this thread once more demonstrates nicely.

You have a point about the thrown bolter - this is a result of the Marine's humongous Strength bonus that he would apply to any melee or thrown attack. A bolter round still has a higher maximum damage (24 per shot), but if thrown it would actually have a higher minimum damage (18) just because the Marine adds +15 on top of the Improvised Weapon's own meager damage profile (1d3+2).
On the upside, since the bolter is an Improvised Throwing Weapon, it'd not lend itself well to throwing in this system ... but truth be told, I'd say it would make for a cool "finisher" if the Astartes would kill an injured opponent with a thrown boltgun that only moments ago clicked empty.

It's a bit worse in FFG's 40k RPGs because their weapons do less basic damage compared to the guns in Inquisitor and the armour is less protective, which I believe is part of the reason for why they buffed all the Marine weapons to at least mitigate the issue somewhat.

Void__Dragon wrote:Is there a reason a Space Marine can not get access to the Talent? You know quite a bit more about the system than I do, but from what I see the Space Marines only have a few unique talents in their pdf thing, and draw the rest for a character from the core.

No particular reason, it's just that the average Marine doesn't have it. The special talents are partially stuff that is reserved for unique characters - a named SC (to use a tabletop term) Marine could have it, as could a Sister, but they'd be exceptional individuals for doing so.
Neither the average Marine nor the average Sister can dodge ranged weapons in this system, too - but any Psyker could trigger a power that temporarily grants him this talent, and then there are some exceptional characters who have it by default, such as the Death Cultist twins Severina and Sevora, or Enforcer Barbaretta.

By default, characters in Inquisitor do not really "level up" like in Dark Heresy - you roll them up, and that's it. Depending on the GM, you could make a custom character who has one or more special talents, though, just like a GM could say "okay, your character was consistently awesome throughout the campaign so far, from now on you can do X".

Troike wrote:Yes, this a major advantage of Inquisitors, access to superior equipment. But take that away, and they're not necessarily too great in a fight.

That's really the main problem I see in a potential confrontation between an Inquisitor and a Battle Sister. Every SoB will have powered armour and a bolter (or worse), whereas there's a whole lot of Inquisitors running around in nothing but a fancy coat and a pistol.
Their ability profiles in GW's Inquisitor game are superior to both a Sister's and a Marine's, though ... except for the Marine's Strength and Toughness, obviously.

That's a bit sad. You could rule the RPG just running around with a SW character and a throwing axe...

agnosto wrote:That's a bit sad. You could rule the RPG just running around with a SW character and a throwing axe...

The bolter still wins by being more accurate, allowing bursts and having 20 rounds in the magazine (if sickle), though.
Average damage is almost equal, true, but then again it's a Space Marine, and even I grant them their uberpwnage in close combat.

 Void__Dragon wrote:

 da001 wrote:

There are many sources directly stating that Sisters are really close to Marines.

There are two. One of which was one of the "Reasons to buy this army" segments, IIRC.

What do you mean "two"?

I provided some sources, but not from the Codexes.
1) Codexes. In this regard, Lynata is better than me and has provided you lots of quotes from just about any single source about the Sisters ever published. From Codex Imperialis to 6th Edition, Sisters have been consistently depicted as nearly equal to Marines or, to be blunt, equal to Marines. You may disregard all Codexes as "unfluffy", but, well, OK... you are using your free-style interpretation of the setting here.

If you limit yourself to Codexes, there is no contradiction: Sisters = Marines. Period. It has always be this way for over 25 years. And every source says the same.

2) Books. I gave two sources. There are more. However, books are not that consistent, and you can find books where the Sisters are just little girls scared at the MIGHTY SPACE MARINES, and go like "omg a SPACE MARINE all my training and combat experience and melta guns so effective against xenos, mutants, psykers, demons and what not is useless because they are MARINES, but IN SPACE!!!". It is usually the same books that depict Marines charging full armies including tanks and stopping a planetary invasion by hitting the enemy with their axes.

I propose you something: you quote me one source depicting the Sisters as inferior to Marines and I will provide you one where a single Sister wins a one-to-one brutal combat against a Space Marine due to her skill. Usually after a brutal fight, were both of them hit each other yet are unable to go through the armour, and where the Sisters dodge attacks from a Marine in melee.

3) RPGs. I know very few of them. For the information people is giving here, it seems to me a fight between a Sister and a Marine would be brutal.

4) Videogames. Dawn of War depicts the Sisters and Marines exactly as they are described in the tabletop game.

5) Tabletop. People tend to discard this, yet we are told that the tabletop is there to bring the background to live. Sisters = 12 points, Marines = 14 points, 13 if they are Chaos. Veterans are 7 points. So yes, Sisters are "between Veterans and Marines", but really, really close to Marines.

Yet you deny it by saying that some Inquisitors are extremely powerful too?

I was mostly responding to Melissia's insistence that Space Marine physical superiority doesn't mean that much compared to the Sisters, I responded in ways it did, which, as usual, went over Dakka's collective Hive Mind.

Ok I get it. I am focussing on the Sisters from now on.

Void__Dragon, I love you and I want your babies.

A Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine impregnated with the seed of a C´tan Star God?

Sounds cool to me. I would recommend the name "Macarena" for your first baby.

A full Sister taskforce should be roughly comparable to a similarly sized Astartes force. The Marines are better equipped and more flexible given their self-sufficient nature and expanded mission statement, but if the task is to purge a hab block or some such, both armies should be equally effective.

Sisters achieve this parity through combined arms and their collective faith. A heroic Sister may well defeat a less exceptional Space Marine, but a bog standard sister is no match for an average Marine, barring a lucky shot.

 da001 wrote:
A Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine impregnated with the seed of a C´tan Star God?

Sounds cool to me. I would recommend the name "Macarena" for your first baby.

Brb writing slash fic asap

A daemonic entity and a C'Tan? That's taking interracial to a whole 'nother level.

Somehow, a gay slash fan fiction seems an appropriate ending to one of LightKing's threads. I can't believe this gak has been going on for 6 pages.

 Omegus wrote:
A full Sister taskforce should be roughly comparable to a similarly sized Astartes force. The Marines are better equipped and more flexible given their self-sufficient nature and expanded mission statement, but if the task is to purge a hab block or some such, both armies should be equally effective.

Sisters achieve this parity through combined arms and their collective faith. A heroic Sister may well defeat a less exceptional Space Marine, but a bog standard sister is no match for an average Marine, barring a lucky shot.

^This is more or less my opinion too.

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:

 da001 wrote:
A Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine impregnated with the seed of a C´tan Star God?

Sounds cool to me. I would recommend the name "Macarena" for your first baby.

Brb writing slash fic asap

Eagerly waiting for it

Oh, oh, I got a pickup line!

"Hey baby, mind if I stick some necrodermis in your metal box?"

I am not sure if it would count as gay. After all, I doubt a C'tan has a gender, and do Daemons have genders? If the possessed is pulsating enough, I am sure he... She... It... Can come across as either!

Tentacles and Iron- An upcoming epic story of how a heroic slimy Possessed embarks on an epic journey through time and space, fighting his fears, the bullies at Possessed-school, and the Grey Knights. Eventually he succeeds in securing Lady Malys' Crystal Heart and offers it to his beloved, the fair lady Void Dragon, thus winning her hand and living happily forever after.

Here is an exclusive extract:

He slowly ran his dripping tentacles down her perfect skin, caressing her with all of a lover's care. She shuddered and pulled him close to her, taking him into her warm, divine embrace. The two could feel the passion in the air. He looked into her black eyes and slowly moved his tendrils closer to the release button on his mutated armour...

For more steaming, slimy romance and heroism, pre-order Tentacles and Iron today!

The Void Dragon is implied to be male, yes.

 Psienesis wrote:
The Void Dragon is implied to be male, yes.

Just like how you call Tzeentch 'he'.

I doubt Tzeentch has a <CENSORED>.

The male pronoun "he" is the default pronoun for non-gender-specific uses in the English language. That's not what I'm talking about.

What I am talking about is the implication that the C'Tan have a concept of gender, and the Void Dragon was male.

 Psienesis wrote:
The male pronoun "he" is the default pronoun for non-gender-specific uses in the English language. That's not what I'm talking about.

What I am talking about is the implication that the C'Tan have a concept of gender, and the Void Dragon was male.

Can you source that?

The old C'Tan write-up GW used to host for Mag'ladroth and the old write-up they had for the Eldar Mythology.

Also, I seem to recall there being a story of the Dragon fighting the Emperor on Medieval Earth, and a few references in Mechanicum.

 Psienesis wrote:
The old C'Tan write-up GW used to host for Mag'ladroth and the old write-up they had for the Eldar Mythology.

Also, I seem to recall there being a story of the Dragon fighting the Emperor on Medieval Earth, and a few references in Mechanicum.

How old is this? I am always a bit iffy about people propagating really old stuff, since some of it is very, very... Eh.

Not that old, expanded upon in Mechanicum and a follow-up book I can't remember. Emperor put him on Mars on purpose to inspire the Mechanicum so he can later use all the cool toys they invent to take over the universe.

How old is this? I am always a bit iffy about people propagating really old stuff, since some of it is very, very... Eh.

o.0

You... do realize that some of the lore we have on these various factions is older than many of the people posting on these forums, right?

While updates to Codices or Black Library novels might change, update or alter things that were printed before, they usually don't. In fact, the change from 3E Necrons to 5E Necrons only really changes the nature of the relationship between the Necrons and the C'Tan. Everything else is, ultimately, flavor.

Whether the Emperor fought the Void Dragon on ancient Terra and then trapped it on Mars, or whether that was just a shard, or whether the Dragon of Mars is not the C'Tan at all is still unchanged.

 Psienesis wrote:

How old is this? I am always a bit iffy about people propagating really old stuff, since some of it is very, very... Eh.

o.0

You... do realize that some of the lore we have on these various factions is older than many of the people posting on these forums, right?

While updates to Codices or Black Library novels might change, update or alter things that were printed before, they usually don't. In fact, the change from 3E Necrons to 5E Necrons only really changes the nature of the relationship between the Necrons and the C'Tan. Everything else is, ultimately, flavor.

Whether the Emperor fought the Void Dragon on ancient Terra and then trapped it on Mars, or whether that was just a shard, or whether the Dragon of Mars is not the C'Tan at all is still unchanged.

I am not saying all old lore is bad.

I am saying some of the old lore is really really out of place and implausible in the current developed 40K setting, and obviously outdated.

I want to make sure it is not of the latter category, and knowing the source and/or context would help.

I am a man.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
I am a man.

Okay.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Note, still want your babies though.

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:

He slowly ran his dripping tentacles down her perfect skin, caressing her with all of a lover's care. She shuddered and pulled him close to her, taking him into her warm, divine embrace. The two could feel the passion in the air. He looked into her black eyes and slowly moved his tendrils closer to the release button on his mutated armour...

I am glad this Sisters of Battle topic has stayed outside the usual bunch of sexual slurs, sadomasochistic references, period jokes and "Sisters go Slaanesh" filth. Instead, we have managed to keep this thread focused through a civilized, culturally enriching conversation. About time people here showed maturity.

I really like this "Tentacles and Iron" thing. Hope it is a massive success. People need more insanity in their lives.

Good idea giving possessed a "release button" for their armours.

 da001 wrote:

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:

He slowly ran his dripping tentacles down her perfect skin, caressing her with all of a lover's care. She shuddered and pulled him close to her, taking him into her warm, divine embrace. The two could feel the passion in the air. He looked into her black eyes and slowly moved his tendrils closer to the release button on his mutated armour...

I am glad this Sisters of Battle topic has stayed outside the usual bunch of sexual slurs, sadomasochistic references, period jokes and "Sisters go Slaanesh" filth. Instead, we have managed to keep this thread focused through a civilized, culturally enriching conversation. About time people here showed maturity.

I really like this "Tentacles and Iron" thing. Hope it is a massive success. People need more insanity in their lives.

Good idea giving possessed a "release button" for their armours.

You never know when you need to provide quick love to a partner in need.

This reminds me of a Paul Bunyan vs./X Cthulhu story I am writing, about how Paul, as the fifth dimensional champion of Mankind, must fight the love of his immortal life Cthulhu to the death, for the good of Earth. I am not sure why.

I never heard of this Paul Bunyan, and I have no idea why you would write a slash fic about and him I

For it to be a slash fic, both parties would need to be the same gender.

Cthulhu is female.

So...rule 63 then.

This thread has gone places. Places where no thread should ever go. Slaanesh is pleased.