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Just a quick question. I usually put a little kitbashing into almost all of my Salamander units, so in the course of converting the Blood Angels Death Company box into a standard Assault Squad I came across the Mk IV Helmet included in the set. I grabbed a spare FW Mk V head and soon came up with the idea of equipping the squad with various Great Crusade/HH era pieces of Power Armour. However, I didn't want the PA to be 'relic' suits (e.g a full MK III suit), but rather I wanted the squad to have a more mixed appearance - as though each Astartes had been gifted salvaged relics for particular acts of valour.

My question to you Dakkanauts is whether this is fluffy or not. I'm aware that as a First founding Chapter, the Salamanders would have a great deal of relics left over, but I'm unsure of whether the Imperium still has enough of a grip of technology to be able to modify or reverse-engineer HH era parts (or older) so that they are as effective and compatible with the current Mk VI and Mk VII armour. I'm gonna take a punt and assume that they can still do this, but I'd thought I'd ask for clarification before I go out and buy a load of bits.

Also, assuming they can do this, would it be possible for 40K techmarines to adapt the Mk II and III helmets so that they are now fully movable?

Any help would set my mind to rest.

 Warpig1815 wrote:
Just a quick question. I usually put a little kitbashing into almost all of my Salamander units, so in the course of converting the Blood Angels Death Company box into a standard Assault Squad I came across the Mk IV Helmet included in the set. I grabbed a spare FW Mk V head and soon came up with the idea of equipping the squad with various Great Crusade/HH era pieces of Power Armour. However, I didn't want the PA to be 'relic' suits (e.g a full MK III suit), but rather I wanted the squad to have a more mixed appearance - as though each Astartes had been gifted salvaged relics for particular acts of valour.

My question to you Dakkanauts is whether this is fluffy or not. I'm aware that as a First founding Chapter, the Salamanders would have a great deal of relics left over, but I'm unsure of whether the Imperium still has enough of a grip of technology to be able to modify or reverse-engineer HH era parts (or older) so that they are as effective and compatible with the current Mk VI and Mk VII armour. I'm gonna take a punt and assume that they can still do this, but I'd thought I'd ask for clarification before I go out and buy a load of bits.

Also, assuming they can do this, would it be possible for 40K techmarines to adapt the Mk II and III helmets so that they are now fully movable?

Any help would set my mind to rest.

It's perfectly feasible. It's been mentioned numerous times that older marks are largely compatible with newer marks but they would need some work done to them (techmarines probably.) also MK III helmets were fully movable it was MK II that couldn't move their heads.

Cheers mate, that kinda sets my mind at ease. I assumed the Mk III helmets were immovable as Mk III armour is essentially a reinforced variant of Mk II armour - that and Lexicanum tells me the Mk IV helmet was the first articulated helmet. In any case it's no problem as I'll just pass it off as a modification. Thanks for the help.

Considering the Imperium still can make a good number of mk4 armor (Red Scorpions are completely equiped with it), as well as Tartaros Terminator armor (entire Minotaurs 1st company has it), there are ways chapters can be given both old and new armor. Sure, go right ahead.

@ace101 - I wasn't worried about whether or not the armour was appropriate for the chapter (as the Salamanders were once a legion they get all the good stuff ), but rather whether individual pieces of older Mk's could be incoporated into newer suits. However, cheers for the response.

 ace101 wrote:
Considering the Imperium still can make a good number of mk4 armor (Red Scorpions are completely equiped with it), as well as Tartaros Terminator armor (entire Minotaurs 1st company has it), there are ways chapters can be given both old and new armor. Sure, go right ahead.

It's worth noting that the Red Scorpions MkIV conversion kit from Forgeworld is only torsos and heads (and shoulderpads), thus, they're clearly compatible with MkVI/MkVII legs, arms, and backpacks.

@Tannhauser42 - Good point there. I was thinking of it more from an in-universe perspective rather than from a implied modelling perspective, but nevertheless that's a good observation - cheers!

I look at it this way:
After ten thousands years, I'm sure the Techmarines have found a way to make it work by now. Many marines are using bolters and armor thousands of years old, but surely some parts have to replaced over time with newer versions due to battle damage. It's kind of like the Ship of Theseus paradox.

Well... that escalated quickly. I know it's off topic, but seeing as my question has already been answered, I'll engage in this philosophical discussion. I guess it's still fundamentally the same object as, in a sense, it's 'spirit' is still the same. The value and worth that the user (in this case the Astartes) attributes to the object, and the memory of deeds committed under it's name and attributed to it's form transcend mere notions such as physical components. I suppose it's similar to the concept that an idea may not be destroyed - no matter how hard you take away it's physical effects, the idea will still remain, even if the original proponent is no longer present. In the case of Astartes war relics - even if you replace all the physical elements of the relic, the deeds of the relic still remain.

To my knowledge, it is described as only MK6/7/8 blending seamlessly. The rest require Techmarine attention to beat the armour into shape. All the armour should be compatible, though, even if the work you have to put down on each combination varies.

You already have your answer but yes you can mix and match. I have done the same thing with my space marine army as well. I also asked a similar question to dakkadakka and got the same responses. For my fluff the chapter is superstitious and think older armor and weapons are divinely "lucky" in a way. Others have also suggested that this could be explained by the chapter running low on armor and have to replace each piece of armor as it fails. Either way glad to see someone else using a similar theme. I would post pictures but I can't get any good pictures using the old school ipad camera.

 Warpig1815 wrote:
Well... that escalated quickly. I know it's off topic, but seeing as my question has already been answered, I'll engage in this philosophical discussion. I guess it's still fundamentally the same object as, in a sense, it's 'spirit' is still the same. The value and worth that the user (in this case the Astartes) attributes to the object, and the memory of deeds committed under it's name and attributed to it's form transcend mere notions such as physical components. I suppose it's similar to the concept that an idea may not be destroyed - no matter how hard you take away it's physical effects, the idea will still remain, even if the original proponent is no longer present. In the case of Astartes war relics - even if you replace all the physical elements of the relic, the deeds of the relic still remain.

There's also the AI fragments that are machine spirits- which give each item a sense of its identity. So in W40K, you could switch out all the parts one-by-one. So long as the machine spirit remained in it though, it'd be the same weapon.

Awesome news to me!!! I have been planning to use various other models from other astartes as members of my BA army. I have been working (in my head) on a successor chapter for the BA and these special kit bashes will be some of the primary members in the fluff of this chapter. Just something that's been developing in my mind since my first BA purchase and reading the codex.
Glad to see this thread and learn that my plan to blend different era suits makes sense.

It's important to understand, if you go back to the original fluff behind the marks of power armor, there are three series.

Mk I

Mk II -> Mk III

Mk IV -> Mk VI -> Mk VII -> MkVIII

Mk V was just an series of improvised armors trying to bring all of their older Marks up to MK VI status.

MK VII was just the final version of Mk IV with an updated helmet, better leg articulation, and a chest plastron to protect the exposed cables better. The fluff behind Mk VI and VII was that they were attempting to take Mk IV (which was supposed to be the final version of power armor), and make it more durable and easier to repair.

So anything from IV -> VIII are more or less interchangeable. But, given the way technology happens in the 40K universe, you can imagine that they will figure out a way to use older parts if they need be, even if it means gutting them to use the internal from damages bits of Mk VII.

Thanks for the replies people!

@Veteran Sergeant: Thanks for the info, but I am aware of the power armour fluff. My main concern was more towards retroactive upgrading and compatability of older marks, rather than simple 'off the shelf' replacements if you will. Nevertheless, your info and comment is much appreciated.

@hwyhooligan - Glad I could help then!

Mixing marks is extremely common in almost all chapters
This is from C:SM

@Brother Payne - Well then, that's sorted it for me. I don't do the gaming side of 40K, so I don't own a codex, but I like to keep my army fluffy. If the Codex permits it, then I'm happy.

 Warpig1815 wrote:
@Brother Payne - Well then, that's sorted it for me. I don't do the gaming side of 40K, so I don't own a codex, but I like to keep my army fluffy. If the Codex permits it, then I'm happy.

Good to hear