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So I have a question that came up when playing against my brother.

If a unit of ogres with two characters and a champion in the front is in close combat with another unit and the champion issues a challenge (and gets accepted), can the opposing army issues attack into the bulls, or does he have to then target the characters only?

My brother argues that the challenge fighters are moved off the the side and one of the back bulls would move up and take his place, but I tried looking in the rule book and I didn't see anywhere that said that.

Thank you in advance

The models fighting stay in the fighting rank, and no one steps up to replace them. Therefore, the enemy unit can only attack what is in base contact and NOT in the challenge - the two characters.

Thank you for the response!

Sneaky and potentially nice.

Also, if one of your characters accepted the challenge, the attacks from the rank and file can only go against the champion, not the bulls

The only way blows would potentially be struck against the unit is if the ogre champion was killed at a higher initiative step than the rest of the unit.

Example: Let's say a Bretonnian lord challenges, and then hacks apart the ogre champion at initiative 5 step. That spot is then filled by a rank and file ogre, allowing any Bret models swinging at initiative 4 and lower the opportunity to direct attacks at ogre rank and file (presuming they meet other targeting requirements).

worth pointing out that you don't actually remove the models off to the side, its a nice thing to do to make it clear who is fighting who, but the only thing the rules actually ask you to do is move the model that accepted into base contact with the model that made the challenge.

if in your given example you didn't have a musician and standard bearer then yes as has been said your opponent can only attack the other character and champion and would need to roll the attacks separately and would also loose out on some of his attacks due to ranking standard bases' vs ogre bases, but also as was stated if the champion or other character was killed at a higher 'I' step than the RnF then the RnF would hit the rest of your unit.

In a duel they stay in place b2b amd fight. Now I like to pull themn oit and next to the combat so I don't forget about it. You don't habe to its just something I do for my own sake.

cgage, When you pull them out do you make sure no one steps forward to fight? Some models will not be able to fight if they are only in B2B with the challenge models.

No one.fills rhe spot because the spotnis filled just moved the model. Other have tokens markers I do it that way.

Artee wrote:
cgage, When you pull them out do you make sure no one steps forward to fight? Some models will not be able to fight if they are only in B2B with the challenge models.

Exactly. Models stranded out of the combat because of a challenge don't attack. Basically, if the only foe you can reach is in a challenge, it would be dishonorable to strike a blow against them. Either that or you're too scared of the guy on your side in the challenge to risk ruining his fun...

This is a somewhat related question.

If I issue a challenge, and they refuse, I can't put their champion in the back of the unit can I, if they're the only character in the other unit and he refuses?

So units without characters, but with champions, can refuse challenges all day long with no penalty?

 Spellbound wrote:
So units without characters, but with champions, can refuse challenges all day long with no penalty?

Correct.

 nutty_nutter wrote:
worth pointing out that you don't actually remove the models off to the side, its a nice thing to do to make it clear who is fighting who, but the only thing the rules actually ask you to do is move the model that accepted into base contact with the model that made the challenge.

if in your given example you didn't have a musician and standard bearer then yes as has been said your opponent can only attack the other character and champion and would need to roll the attacks separately and would also loose out on some of his attacks due to ranking standard bases' vs ogre bases, but also as was stated if the champion or other character was killed at a higher 'I' step than the RnF then the RnF would hit the rest of your unit.

Not true. Nowhere in the rules for challenging does it say the models must be placed in B2B contact. It says that they are assumed to be in B2B contact when the challenge is accepted, and that it is suggested (NOTE: not imperative) that the models be in B2B for cinematic reasons. There is nothing stopping a player from not moving their model from current their placement in the rank-and-file. However there are very limited circumstances in which this would actually benefit a player (not moving the model).

It's a small but important distinction, no one can force you to move your model if you issue or accept a challenge with said model.

 Ehsteve wrote:

 nutty_nutter wrote:
worth pointing out that you don't actually remove the models off to the side, its a nice thing to do to make it clear who is fighting who, but the only thing the rules actually ask you to do is move the model that accepted into base contact with the model that made the challenge.

if in your given example you didn't have a musician and standard bearer then yes as has been said your opponent can only attack the other character and champion and would need to roll the attacks separately and would also loose out on some of his attacks due to ranking standard bases' vs ogre bases, but also as was stated if the champion or other character was killed at a higher 'I' step than the RnF then the RnF would hit the rest of your unit.

Not true. Nowhere in the rules for challenging does it say the models must be placed in B2B contact. It says that they are assumed to be in B2B contact when the challenge is accepted, and that it is suggested (NOTE: not imperative) that the models be in B2B for cinematic reasons. There is nothing stopping a player from not moving their model from current their placement in the rank-and-file. However there are very limited circumstances in which this would actually benefit a player (not moving the model).

It's a small but important distinction, no one can force you to move your model if you issue or accept a challenge with said model.

please note BRB p102 under heading fighting a challenge:

first line: if the character accepts the challenge MOVE HIM INTO BASE CONTACT WITH THE CHALLENGER.