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HQ
Farseer
Spiritseer

Elites
Fire Dragons in WS w/SL

Troops
Guardians x10 w/SL in WS w/SL
Storm Guardians x10 w/2 fusion guns in a WS w/SL
7x Wraithblades w/axes

Fast Attack
Crimson Hunter

Heavy Support
Fire Prism
Fire Prism

Strategy: Put spiritseer and farseer in the Wraithblade squad, try to get fortune and stay alive, rest of the guys dakka dakka everything

Questions... should I drop 2 wraithblades for 3 jetbikes with a cannon or something? Maybe upgrade the SL platform to a BL? Thoughts? Weaknesses?

Umm, if you want really competitive drop the blades all together because they are to slow without a WS, so drop them for another hunter, drop spirit seer for a jetbike, MotLg, and spirit stone of anath'an

You could say that my meta is "tau heavy" and a jetseer with MOTLG and the stone will definitely get one-shotted.

Edit: Just heavy in 'ignores cover' in general, really.

well i would strongly recomend a shuiken canons and or holofeilds for the waveserpents.

I second the cannons on the wave serpents. Many dont take them, and I'm not sure why. 10 points is a steal. All you have to do is kill 1 model with it and you have made your points back. Also it adds to the S6/S7 dakka synergy. Holofields are great too.

As for the MotLG, I would take it anyway. pretty easy to hide a single jetbike out of LoS, and you should be able to clear all his marker lights by turn 2. If you still really you really think he wont live, get rid of the warithblades anyway and put him on a jetbike with some windriders. 6 seems like a good amount. this will boost his toughness to 4 so you wont get instagibbed by S6 or 7. Aso dat 3+ armour save.

I don't take the cannons because I rarely fire them or would rarely expect to hit with them. Usually going to be moving to get the jink save or an objective, which means I can fire 2 weapons, which will be the SL and the serpent shield.

Our store doesn't have a lot of big LoS blockers, just a lot of swiss cheese 40k cities of death buildings and whatnot. I don't get hit by markerlights, I don't know the codex that well but I get hit with Riptides with attached crisis suit commanders giving some sort of buff. One of the last matches I played had me pitted against a squad of 2 riptides + suit commander who all ignored cover or whatever. Again, not really sure about anything in their codex.

edit: thanks for the replies so far guys

I have to add weight to the opinion of MotLG and Jet bike for the Farseer (but not the spirit stone there aren't any Warp Charge 2 powers you really want on him anyway). Wraithblades are a horrid unit for competitive play. 1 attack each at Ws4 and I1 no thanks. Tau will take that whole unit off turn 1 as will guard. Necrons will be glade of it as Death & Despair squads having something tasty to kill and Wraiths a nice easy assault opponent. Just dump them.

Scatter Laser is not a great weapon on the guardians you're paying for a laser lock rule you'll never use. Stay cheap with a Shuriken cannon or plump for the Starcannon for serious AP2 death.

I would dump the Hunter or both Prisms for a 2nd Hunter. Basically pick which one of those you want in your army and take two of that and drop the other. Serpents should be your main battle tanks. You'll want more of them than just two. They need Holofields always and shuriken cannons preferably.

Personally I don't rate Firedragons. Wraithguard are not a huge amount of points more do a wider variety of jobs (dealing with MCs) and get to shoot more than once as they can take a hit. But with 2 Prisms or 2 Hunters you'll be OK for AV14 hunting anyway so perhaps not bother at all.

Something like this

Farseer: MotLG, bike 155

Wraithguard: Serpent: SL, SC, HF 305

10 Guardians: Starcannon: Serpent: SL, HF, SC 255
10 Guardians: Starcannon: Serpent: SL, HF, SC 255
10 Guardians: Shuriken cannon: Serpent: SL, HF, SC 250

Fire Prism: HF 140
Fire Prism: HF 140

That gives you 4 Serpents each loaded with a threatening unit and 2 Prisms all have a 4+ Jink going to 3+ when flatout. Or with Hunters

Farseer: MotLG, bike 155
Spiritseer 70

Wraithguard: Serpent: SL, HF, SC 305
Dire Avengers: Serpent: SL, HF, SC 210
Dire Avengers: Serpent: SL, HF, SC 210
Dire Avengers: Serpent: SL, HF, SC 210

Crimson Hunter Exarch 180
Crimson Hunter 160

This shifts the Wraithguard into troops gives you super AA though you HAVE to kill interceptor turn 1 as Hunters go down to a stiff breeze. Your troops here are less likely so you are reliant on the Serpents, Hunters and Wraiths to do the killing. DAs never get out of the Serpents until turn 5 or the Serpent is dead.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sorry posted before your last reply. Sounds like you're up against O'Vesastar, it is Farsight Enclaves with Tau allies. You have an IC Riptide unlocked by Farsight attached to a Riptide and buffmander. Look up O'Vesastar to find more out about that list as it is a top Tournament list at the moment. Which makes the Wraithguard even more a better choice than Fire Dragons (as well as the Starcannons in the guardian squads).

Mantleseer is still good you just have to keep him blocked LoS. Cities of Death Ruins should be enough to block LoS for a single bike, indeed a Wave Serpent can. If the O'Vesastar is shooting him that's not ignores cover fire at your Serpents so be happy. He is more expendable against that list. Hunters may do better as he'll probably not have much interceptor (if any) and the extra S8 Ap2 shots will help against the deathstar.

Farseer: MotLG, bike 155

Wraithguard: Serpent: SL, SC, HF 305

10 Guardians: Starcannon: Serpent: SL, HF, SC 255
10 Guardians: Starcannon: Serpent: SL, HF, SC 255
10 Guardians: Shuriken cannon: Serpent: SL, HF, SC 250

Fire Prism: HF 140
Fire Prism: HF 140

This list looks quite good. However, I'd take Fire Dragons instead of WG.

 wuestenfux wrote:

Farseer: MotLG, bike 155

Wraithguard: Serpent: SL, SC, HF 305

10 Guardians: Starcannon: Serpent: SL, HF, SC 255
10 Guardians: Starcannon: Serpent: SL, HF, SC 255
10 Guardians: Shuriken cannon: Serpent: SL, HF, SC 250

Fire Prism: HF 140
Fire Prism: HF 140

This list looks quite good. However, I'd take Fire Dragons instead of WG.

Why? FDs don't do enough against MCs and only ever shoot once due to how fragile they are. At least Wraithguard require a serious effort to kill if they go down in one turn at all.

I ran this list except instead of wraithguard I had a knight and instead of the spiritseer and second prism I had a laughingseer on bike and jetbikes. I think you will do just fine, I did ok over the weekend, lost a couple games but it was my fault.

 FlingitNow wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

Farseer: MotLG, bike 155

Wraithguard: Serpent: SL, SC, HF 305

10 Guardians: Starcannon: Serpent: SL, HF, SC 255
10 Guardians: Starcannon: Serpent: SL, HF, SC 255
10 Guardians: Shuriken cannon: Serpent: SL, HF, SC 250

Fire Prism: HF 140
Fire Prism: HF 140

This list looks quite good. However, I'd take Fire Dragons instead of WG.

Why? FDs don't do enough against MCs and only ever shoot once due to how fragile they are. At least Wraithguard require a serious effort to kill if they go down in one turn at all.

Well, the choice between FD and WG is not obvious. FD got more durable and I noticed this difference in the games I made so far. FD are better vs. tanks. They are cheaper than WG so you can take more models, 5 WG vs. 7-8 FD. In this way, they can also get the job done against an MC.

Yes more survivable than they were but not by enough. They still fall over in a stiff breeze. A Tac squad rapid firing takes off all 8 FDs but kills less than 2 Wraithguard. For instance. Yes the FDs are better against tanks. But AV12- tanks are dead to the Serpents every time. AV13 tanks can be killed by anything in the list. AV14 tanks are still fairly rare so the decrease against them isn't a huge thing. As for MCs there are 2 that cause you issues. Wraithknights and Riptides. Against knights wounding on 4s blunts the FDs against Riptides with FnP the ID on a 6 is huge.

 Radical_Edward wrote:
I don't take the cannons because I rarely fire them or would rarely expect to hit with them. Usually going to be moving to get the jink save or an objective, which means I can fire 2 weapons, which will be the SL and the serpent shield.

I just want to point out that If you move 12", you can still fire the cannon as snapshots. It's not trivial because the scatter laser most likely makes them win linked.
If you see a lot of FMCs or flyers then it's definately worth it because alll shots are snaps anyway.

 Nivoglibina wrote:

 Radical_Edward wrote:
I don't take the cannons because I rarely fire them or would rarely expect to hit with them. Usually going to be moving to get the jink save or an objective, which means I can fire 2 weapons, which will be the SL and the serpent shield.

I just want to point out that If you move 12", you can still fire the cannon as snapshots. It's not trivial because the scatter laser most likely makes them win linked.
If you see a lot of FMCs or flyers then it's definately worth it because alll shots are snaps anyway.

And if you move 6" you fire it at full Bs. Even snap shots you average a hit a turn with the gun.

I love crimson hunters - their look, but I wish they would have at least given them holofields or some type of invuln, they fold too easily. I think one with tau is dead as soon as it comes on the board - esp with broadsides with EWO. I love wraithknights - if you want to run a wraithguard or blades take Iyaden faction as the Spiritseers power is awesome and a 12" bubble which gives all wraith battlefocus, furious charge and fleet - which really helps get them across the board for their points I still think they are not that competitive. But if you want to play them you should. I personally like wraithguard with d-scythes-but for an extra 10 points they are sooooo expensive - but tear foot or horde armies up.
I personally run my serpents with TL SL, holofields and Shuri Cannons! - If you only move 6 inches remember that a fast skimmer can fire EVERYTHING, if it moves 6-12" 2 weapons. Many argue with me that cannons are not worth it, I have found many times that I fire all 3 weapons a turn so I believe that they are worth it in my opinion... Good luck and cheers.

Yes, every single game i have used wave serpents, even when i have guys like wraithgaurd inside, the shuiken cannons still help. Generally its one turn they will have to snapshot (still averaging 1 hit) and then the rest of the game it will add 3 extra radnign shots to the wave serpents mix, something i find EXTREMELY good.