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Quick question. I don't think anyone would do this, but can a Lord shove himself into the Portalglyph that he himself purchased? Thus making it impossible for him to ever be deployed/attacked/targeted/anything. I can't really think why, other than to gimp yourself and laugh. But it would be like 500pts completely removed from the game in all aspects. Maybe there is some obscure reason you would want to do that.

You couldn't ever place it because it is placed 12" from the bearer who is himself unplaced.

And as your Lord is not on the table at the end of the game, he counts as being a casualty
Not really great to deny points is it ?

Re-read the question. Is it possible? I already said it was a bad idea if it was.

 DukeRustfield wrote:
Re-read the question.

Maybe re-read the title of this post...

The points are denied. The unit hasn't fled the table and he hasn't been destroyed. The rules don't state they have to be "on the table," or they are sacrificed victory points. Unless it's FAQed somewhere. The rule is "Dead or Fled."

Ambushers special rule has a clause that if they don't show up all game they are considered Fled. Entombed Beneath the Sands (TK) is just Ambushers with some modifications.

Portalglyph doesn't have that rule. If someone never shows up it doesn't state the points are lost. So that's like 475 + 100 for General of victory points that are completely outside the game.

Again, I think it's a pretty bad move, but I'm just curious if it's possible. If there are any scenarios like kill the enemy general, this could be used. Especially with a DP, who could do it for 325 pts total.

I can't think of any reason why it would be against the rules, but like you said, it's probably not a great idea. The DoC player would be playing at a 400-or so point disadvantage where force on the board is considered. It's almost the same as playing a 2000-2100 point list against your opponent's 2500 point list.

Depends if this is a game where the DP is a liability, never going to survive / make its points back

I've seen plenty of dwarf gunlines (ruining warhammer for everyone ) where the sensible action (especially in margin of victory tournaments, where a 12-8 loss is better than a certain tabling if you advance) is to simply spend the entire game hiding.

I said sensible, not fun.

I can see one upside to the combo
Experiment 626 wouldn't whine that his "super vulnerable" Greater Demon is too easy to kill

TanKoL wrote:
I can see one upside to the combo
Experiment 626 wouldn't whine that his "super vulnerable" Greater Demon is too easy to kill

Don't say it. You'll summon him to the thread!

The problem is you have to start the game like that. You can't decide later. If you could, like get down to one wound, then poof. That would be pretty awesome. But it's like Ambushers. You have to know from the outset to take the gift and use it. One flexibility is you can simply say 75pts of greater gifts. You have to randomly roll at match time and you can select Portal.

I can really only think that if you're doing some scenario where your general is everything. Let's say it was worth +200 VC or even the game. A DP spends a total of 325 to make it happen. You lose his IP, but that doesn't affect DoC as much as other armies. You lose his combat power, of course. But he can't be killed.

 thedarkavenger wrote:

TanKoL wrote:
I can see one upside to the combo
Experiment 626 wouldn't whine that his "super vulnerable" Greater Demon is too easy to kill

Don't say it. You'll summon him to the thread!

TanKoL wrote:
I can see one upside to the combo
Experiment 626 wouldn't whine that his "super vulnerable" Greater Demon is too easy to kill

+++

Isn't 626 a "her" and not a "him?"

That said..

I thought it was listed specifically somewhere that he died if he didn't enter play. I also thought it was specific that someone else had to carry him around.

Nope and nope. Someone is "the bearer" because he purchased it. It's his item, obviously (one hero can't buy a magic sword and give it to another character). But it doesn't say he can't go in it.

"if your army contains the portal, you can choose to keep a single unit in the RoC instead of deploying it at the start of the game"

It only says what happens if the bearer is killed, which he can't be if he is never placed on the board. And they don't mention what happens if someone never comes out.

I guess I'm just used to seeing Epidemius in there, and in his case someone DOES have to carry it because he has no purchasing points.

TanKoL wrote:
I can see one upside to the combo
Experiment 626 wouldn't whine that his "super vulnerable" Greater Demon is too easy to kill

How about you grow-up and leave the personal attacks out of it?


Yes, the Portalglyph is the epitome of stupid rules writing, and here's an additional dick move to add to it;
Even if placed, you never have to bring the unit hiding in it into play.
"Once the Portalglyph has been placed, the unit in the Realm of Chaos can enter play through the Portalglyph during the Remaining Moves sub-phase of any subsequent friendly turn."

So even in an Epi list, if you kill the bearer and it gets auto-placed, the Daemon player can simply choose to never deploy Epi, because nothing says they must bring the Portalglyph unit into play, only that they can.

Yes, we know that. But the question was can owner stuff himself in it before play and never exit?

 DukeRustfield wrote:
Yes, we know that. But the question was can owner stuff himself in it before play and never exit?

By the letter of the rule as it's written, yes the owner can sit himself inside his own Portalglyph and never be able to exit it for any reason.

Almost certainly not the way it's intended to work, but then by RAW the RoC table for example only ever hits DoC & WoC, (and is only prevented from staying that way by the FAQ), and Tzheralds can be argued to keep the Burning Chariot's shooting attacks despite even the model going against RAW.

Experiment 626 wrote:

 DukeRustfield wrote:
Yes, we know that. But the question was can owner stuff himself in it before play and never exit?

By the letter of the rule as it's written, yes the owner can sit himself inside his own Portalglyph and never be able to exit it for any reason.

Almost certainly not the way it's intended to work, but then by RAW the RoC table for example only ever hits DoC & WoC, (and is only prevented from staying that way by the FAQ), and Tzheralds can be argued to keep the Burning Chariot's shooting attacks despite even the model going against RAW.

Oh, please, don't bring up that part of the RoC interpretation again. There were pages and pages of debate about it on multiple forums, and people argued that both interpretations were RAW.

I vote we put forward a new abbreviation RAWA – Rules As Whined About.

need to double check my library at lunch time but I am fairly certain that models not on the field at the end of the battle are considered destroyed for the purposes of victory points.

Nope. Models that have FLED the battlefield or were destroyed.

Ambush and similar special rules had to specifically declare what happens if they don't get placed. They wouldn't have to do that if the generic victory conditions applied.

just had a flick through the book and the errata's and yup your correct in terms of him not counting as being dead.

as far as doing it I wouldn't know what the benefits would be myself but yea....

I tried to come up with something too. You can't cast or dispel magic, which would have been pretty funny--well, assy--but the magic rules state they have to be on the table. There was one template spell that wasn't based off distance from the caster but you can't cast at all.

If you were playing a scenario where the victory conditions were all about killing the general or had some large point bonus, it would be a way to ensure that never happened.

It does seem a very DoC thing to do. Stuffing yourself into an interdimensional space in which you can only take yourself out if you're already out. Soooo chaos.

aren't deamons all ld10 anyway?

if you could sqeeze in a cheap character and make him the general, then you could get away with not deploying him and presuming the rest of your force is good to go you could win through attrition that way perhaps.

but yea, legal but seems foolish

@nutty_nutter.

Nope, standard Ld for Daemons is 7. Outside of maybe a special character, the highest Ld in the army is 9.

fair enough, deamons aren't a popular army in my area so they don't show up often.