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House Budget Committee Chairman Paul Ryan on Sunday defended his compromise budget deal that avoids another potential government shutdown but suggested congressional Republicans will be more demanding of Democrats during the upcoming debit-limit talks.
I'm floored if this is their plan. Last time worked so well. I'm hoping it is just posturing for the base.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/16 15:27:04
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House Budget Committee Chairman Paul Ryan on Sunday defended his compromise budget deal that avoids another potential government shutdown but suggested congressional Republicans will be more demanding of Democrats during the upcoming debit-limit talks.
I'm floored if this is their plan. Last time worked so well. I'm hoping it is just posturing for the base.
I think the Democrats want this fight... as it'll deflect attention from the PPACA.
*shrugs*
We'll see... maybe Reid will actually start negotiating.
Don't believe what you may have heard elsewhere about the budget deal. Here's the truth.
Myth #1: This prevents another government shutdown.
The deal may make a shutdown less likely, but it absolutely doesn't prevent one from happening.
Shutdowns occur when there is a lapse in appropriations, that is, when an existing appropriation expires and no new appropriation is enacted to replace it. This deal raises the ceiling on the amount that may be appropriated, but it does not actually appropriate anything.
There still could be, or likely will be, a fight in January over the amount being spent and what it is being spent on when the widely expected omnibus appropriation is debated. The deal provides a ceiling on the amount that may be spent rather than a guarantee and some members of Congress will want to re-litigate the increase that was negotiated in this agreement. Others will threaten to vote against the omnibus because they disagree with the bill's priorities.
Myth #2: Congress has now passed a budget for the first time in years.
Nonsense. This deal isn't a "budget" because (1) it only deals with appropriations (about 30 percent of all annual federal spending) and doesn't deal with taxes at all, and (2) it's not a congressional budget resolution. The House and Senate did pass their own budget resolutions earlier this year but this agreement is not a compromise between those two.
Myth #3: This is the beginning of a new era of bipartisanship in Washington.
More total nonsense: This is more wishful thinking and heavy duty prayer than serious analysis.
This deal was possible because both sides agreed not to consider anything controversial like Medicare, Social Security and taxes. There would have been no deal at all had those issues been on the table...or anywhere near the table.
Does anyone really think that there is enough good will in the aftermath of this deal for Congress and the White House to be able to take on these issues, immigration or Obamacare?
Myth #4: There will be no budget-related crises over the next two years.
This myth was exploded almost immediately after the deal was announced when House Budget Committee Chairman Paul Ryan (R-WI) and Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell (KY) announced that the GOP will not agree to the increase in the debt ceiling that likely will be needed by June without getting concessions on some as-of-yet unspecified issue(s) and the White House immediately rejected debt ceiling negotiations.
Trillion dollar coin anyone?
Myth #5: This deal was a significant change in fiscal policy
Sorry, but $23 billion in lower deficits over the next 10 years does not constitute a material change in the U.S. budget outlook. In fact, $23 billion is literally a rounding error (.000575) when compared to my estimate of total spending over that same 10-year period.
Bonus Myth: This deal shows the congressional budget process can work.
Oh, please. Not only was there budget resolution by the April 15 deadline, there was no budget resolution at all (see #2). The GOP in both houses prevented a budget resolution conference from happening. None of the FY14 appropriations were enacted by the start of the year and we had a government shutdown. The debt ceiling was suspended rather than increased. The sequester that was supposed to happen was changed.
And this virtually insignificant deal somehow changes all that?
Not only is the congressional budget process not working, it's basically already dead and buried.
Time to start stocking the bunker for the end times?
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2013/12/20 15:01:49
Subject: Re:Debt Limit Fight: The Never Ending Story
I don't think that the US can really be considered the worlds foremost democracy anymore.
RegalPhantom wrote: If your fluff doesn't fit, change your fluff until it does
The prefect example of someone missing the point.
Do not underestimate the Squats. They survived for millenia cut off from the Imperium and assailed on all sides. Their determination and resilience is an example to us all.
-Leman Russ, Meditations on Imperial Command book XVI (AKA the RT era White Dwarf Commpendium).
Its just a shame that they couldn't fight off Andy Chambers.
Warzone Plog
Because your political system is obviously fundamentally broken and there have been no real moves to fix it. Basically your elected politicians are squabbling children (more so than usual) who show no sign of maturing and will probably end up getting re-elected.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/23 17:48:43
RegalPhantom wrote: If your fluff doesn't fit, change your fluff until it does
The prefect example of someone missing the point.
Do not underestimate the Squats. They survived for millenia cut off from the Imperium and assailed on all sides. Their determination and resilience is an example to us all.
-Leman Russ, Meditations on Imperial Command book XVI (AKA the RT era White Dwarf Commpendium).
Its just a shame that they couldn't fight off Andy Chambers.
Warzone Plog
Palindrome wrote: Because your political system is obviously fundamentally broken and there have been no real moves to fix it. Basically your elected politicians are squabbling children (more so than usual) who show no sign of maturing and will probably end up getting re-elected.
We're just one big disfunctional family.
Just don't feth with us.... we're likely to break things.
If necessary, Obama could order the Treasury to coin* a few of these bad boys:
*never going to happen... but, funny as all hell as there's a legal mechanic that'll support this
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/23 17:52:03
Palindrome wrote: Because your political system is obviously fundamentally broken and there have been no real moves to fix it. Basically your elected politicians are squabbling children (more so than usual) who show no sign of maturing and will probably end up getting re-elected.
Actually, maybe it is working exactly as intended.
Perhaps the benchmark is not what gets accomplished, as much as what is PREVENTED from being accomplished.
Captain Killhammer McFighterson stared down at the surface of Earth from his high vantage point on the bridge of Starship Facemelter. Something ominous was looming on the surface. He could see a great shadow looming just underneath the waters of the Gulf of Mexico, slowly spreading northward. "That can't be good..." he muttered to himself while rubbing the super manly stubble on his chin with one hand. "But... on the other hand..." he looked at his shiny new bionic murder-arm. "This could be the perfect chance for that promotion." A perfect roundhouse kick slammed the ship's throttle into full gear. Soon orange jets of superheated plasma were visible from the space-windshield as Facemelter reentered the atmosphere at breakneck speed.
Breaking your public service, again, isn't exactly a mark of good governance.
I was in Afghan for the last little episode and my US collegues had to borrow stuff from us (stationary and the like) as they weren't allowed to order any of their own. That's just pathetic.
RegalPhantom wrote: If your fluff doesn't fit, change your fluff until it does
The prefect example of someone missing the point.
Do not underestimate the Squats. They survived for millenia cut off from the Imperium and assailed on all sides. Their determination and resilience is an example to us all.
-Leman Russ, Meditations on Imperial Command book XVI (AKA the RT era White Dwarf Commpendium).
Its just a shame that they couldn't fight off Andy Chambers.
Warzone Plog
Actually, maybe it is working exactly as intended.
Perhaps the benchmark is not what gets accomplished, as much as what is PREVENTED from being accomplished.
Oh god, not this gak again, the idea that our government was designed to be dysfunctional is a myth. Our system was designed to work on compromise for the benefit of the US, not to not work based on the (false) assumption that everything was A-ok and therefore didn't need to have anything changed.
The roadblocks to getting things passed are, by and large, recent political and procedural constructions that have little if any textual backing in the Constitution.
As for this debate, I think there is a game to be played, but I think it's one Republicans are more wary of playing after the last one blew up in their face. They need to use much more finesse, something which might be difficult with their caucus somewhat fractured.
Actually, maybe it is working exactly as intended.
Perhaps the benchmark is not what gets accomplished, as much as what is PREVENTED from being accomplished.
Oh god, not this gak again, the idea that our government was designed to be dysfunctional is a myth. Our system was designed to work on compromise for the benefit of the US, not to not work based on the (false) assumption that everything was A-ok and therefore didn't need to have anything changed.
The roadblocks to getting things passed are, by and large, recent political and procedural constructions that have little if any textual backing in the Constitution.
As for this debate, I think there is a game to be played, but I think it's one Republicans are more wary of playing after the last one blew up in their face. They need to use much more finesse, something which might be difficult with their caucus somewhat fractured.
I agree our government should function on compromise.
That said, it should also serve as a speed brake on what can very easily become a runaway train.
Obamacare is a good example of a runaway train that was not stopped. It addresses a problem that affected only 10% of Americans. However, it was a Democratic congress and that particular 10% is most likely voting Democrat and so it was ram-rodded through.
That is what our Congress should be preventing.
Captain Killhammer McFighterson stared down at the surface of Earth from his high vantage point on the bridge of Starship Facemelter. Something ominous was looming on the surface. He could see a great shadow looming just underneath the waters of the Gulf of Mexico, slowly spreading northward. "That can't be good..." he muttered to himself while rubbing the super manly stubble on his chin with one hand. "But... on the other hand..." he looked at his shiny new bionic murder-arm. "This could be the perfect chance for that promotion." A perfect roundhouse kick slammed the ship's throttle into full gear. Soon orange jets of superheated plasma were visible from the space-windshield as Facemelter reentered the atmosphere at breakneck speed.
I agree our government should function on compromise.
That said, it should also serve as a speed brake on what can very easily become a runaway train.
Obamacare is a good example of a runaway train that was not stopped. It addresses a problem that affected only 10% of Americans. However, it was a Democratic congress and that particular 10% is most likely voting Democrat and so it was ram-rodded through.
That is what our Congress should be preventing.
Healthcare is something that all Americans are involved with, whether they have health insurance or not, and many mechanisms of the ACA go beyond the 10%. As for the merits of the internal mechanisms, that's another debate, and frankly one we can't have in totality until several more years have passed. Labeling it a runaway train is too far right now, especially considering the ACA as passed is more conservative than what the Republicans offered in the 70's.
As for the idea of a speed brake, the separation of the Legislative and Executive branches, and the further separation of the Legislative branch are meant to be speed bumps. As are the courts, as a speed bump to implementation of things that go too far. As are our elections in the first place, meant to be speed bumps to electing people too extremist to hold office. While there are some reasonable additional steps that can be implemented (filibuster both in form and it's how the Congress used it prior to the 70's creation of the virtual filibuster), things have gone too far, both politically and in procedural ways outside of the usual separations built into the Constitution. The fact that we have these major fights every six months, while prior administrations and Congresses got through these things without shutdowns and playing chicken with the debt ceiling shows that.
I'm glad Republicans are finally compromising, though as the article points out, the bigger fight may still need to be fought. My hope is that Republicans will compromise there as well.
2013/12/23 22:58:39
Subject: Re:Debt Limit Fight: The Never Ending Story
So when are the Democrats going to compromise exactly?
At some point we will owe more money than we can ever repay.
Why not hold it at this level right now?
Just stop the runaway spending and see what happens.
Captain Killhammer McFighterson stared down at the surface of Earth from his high vantage point on the bridge of Starship Facemelter. Something ominous was looming on the surface. He could see a great shadow looming just underneath the waters of the Gulf of Mexico, slowly spreading northward. "That can't be good..." he muttered to himself while rubbing the super manly stubble on his chin with one hand. "But... on the other hand..." he looked at his shiny new bionic murder-arm. "This could be the perfect chance for that promotion." A perfect roundhouse kick slammed the ship's throttle into full gear. Soon orange jets of superheated plasma were visible from the space-windshield as Facemelter reentered the atmosphere at breakneck speed.
2013/12/24 00:09:17
Subject: Re:Debt Limit Fight: The Never Ending Story
jamesk1973 wrote: So when are the Democrats going to compromise exactly?
At some point we will owe more money than we can ever repay.
Why not hold it at this level right now?
Just stop the runaway spending and see what happens.
Well, first off, on the subject of debt limits, administrations and Congresses on both sides, for decades, recognized those debates as being separate from making cuts. The compromise on the debt ceiling are pretty much any riders on the debt ceiling that Republicans can get, since the deviation from the status quo to making budget decisions a part of debt ceiling legislation was on them.
As for balancing the budget separate from the debt ceiling fight, they tried to create grand bargains, but they tend to fall through since sacred cows get in the way. So, same as always, Democrats will be willing to compromise on entitlements and government programs when Republicans are willing to compromise on taxes and military spending. Both sides have trouble getting the votes for that.
The other problem is that revenue vs. spending is only part of the problem, there are a lot of indirect costs tied to business practices, regulations, etc. Prescription drugs costs being one example of something where indirect costs to the government are a concern, and balancing the business concerns and consumer cost concerns are difficult (though I think there is fairly wide agreement that general healthcare costs in the US are too high).
2013/12/24 00:15:57
Subject: Re:Debt Limit Fight: The Never Ending Story
jamesk1973 wrote: So when are the Democrats going to compromise exactly?
Probably at about the same time the republicans stop using the budget as an excuse to cut stuff they disagree with for ideological reasons while simultaneously finding plenty of money to spend on an obscenely large military, multiple foreign wars of questionable value, and tax cuts for people who are rich enough that they don't need them.
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
2013/12/24 00:19:09
Subject: Re:Debt Limit Fight: The Never Ending Story
jamesk1973 wrote: So when are the Democrats going to compromise exactly?
Probably at about the same time the republicans stop using the budget as an excuse to cut stuff they disagree with for ideological reasons while simultaneously finding plenty of money to spend on an obscenely large military, multiple foreign wars of questionable value, and tax cuts for people who are rich enough that they don't need them.
Wow... stereotype much.
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
2013/12/24 01:06:23
Subject: Re:Debt Limit Fight: The Never Ending Story
It's hardly a stereotype. Just look at the people who vote against funding the government because of "financial responsibility" and then look at their voting record on military spending, tax cuts for the wealthy, and anything else the republican party considers "good" spending. You'll find that "financial responsibility" really means "don't spend money on things I don't personally benefit from".
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
