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 mattyrm wrote:

 sub-zero wrote:
I would like to see a fistfight between Lysander and the new Be'lakor. Be'lakor is WS9, S 6, 4 wounds, 6 attacks on the charge, has EW, always wounds on 2+ (fleshbane), master-crafted, has a 4++ and is shrouded, His sword is S+1, AP2, and Lysander would have a -1 to his leadership when taking fear tests. Let's not forget that Be'lakor is a Mastery level 3 psyker of the Telethapy discipline. Cast Hallucination and psychic shriek and the fight is almost over before a single blow is struck!

Well judging by that lot, it wouldnt even be a contest, Bel would whoop his ass.

I think the lack of EW on so many characters is a big deal, especially for T5 or lower models. I'd like to try more SM HQs, but basically, Ive noitced that loads of stuff hits at S8 and over, making them useless in a challenge. One hit from a run of the mill warboss with a PK and they are toast.

and that's how it would be for lysander to fight any greater daemon. They're all T6 with a higher WS and I so they're going first, not being instant killed and automatically ap2.

 Jayden63 wrote:
Abby doesn't give any other bonuses to the army like Lysander does. Now weither or not anyone feels that those extra abilities that Lydander has is justified in his point cost beyond being a beat stick is purely opinion.

That's not true. Abaddon turns Chosen from an Elite into a Troops choice (basically less good Stern/Vanguard vets) and has a 12" PE:SM bubble.

Any of the Primarchs would Massacre him (ha)
A corpulescense 'Thirster would beat him bloody.
Swarmlord would kill him.
Abbadon would.
Vect stands a good chance.
Any of the Forgeworld Daemon Lords would kill three of him per turn.
Be'lakor would win.

ThePrimordial wrote:
Vect stands a good chance.

The T3 guy with an AP3 weapon? Yeah, about that...

 anonymou5 wrote:
Usual suspects. Swarmlord, Abaddon, Bear Lords, Powered up DPs and Greater Daemons, probably everyone's favorite Chapter Master.

I'd love to see a usual suspect mock up with those guys.

I'll toss the Be'Lakor hat into the ring. Especially on a charge

A Chapter Master with Shield Eternal and a Thunder Hammer, preferably in Artificer armour is equivalent to Lysander, but has an extra attack. He should be able to go toe to toe with lysander and come out on top. The only thing lysander has on him is master crafting.

Black mace daemon prince with biomancy and DoN. GG

 avedominusnox wrote:
Black mace daemon prince with biomancy and DoN. GG

Better get Iron Arm, otherwise you'd be in trouble...

Of the times I have played against Lysander, he has gone down to shooting. Usually from CSM squads. His biggest weakness is situations where has has to make a ton of saving throws.

Drazhar, maybe? Drazhar has EW and attacks AP2 at Iniative hyper-athletic Dark Eldar.

Still Ironballs would probably win as he has an I save and Drazhar doesn't.

 RancidHate wrote:
Drazhar, maybe? Drazhar has EW and attacks AP2 at Iniative hyper-athletic Dark Eldar.

Still Ironballs would probably win as he has an I save and Drazhar doesn't.

He's got Initiative hyper-Eldar for one turn. Concussive's nasty business.

A greater Daemon of Slaanesh would rip him apart even if Ly got the charge... Fight me in a challenge. You can't refuse. I hit you first. I rend. I have a BS amount of attacks. I tickle your funny bone. Harlequins die somewhere in the galaxy.

bio-buffed swarmlord would absolutely demolish ironballs

 Schwarmfuhrer wrote:
bio-buffed swarmlord would absolutely demolish ironballs

as well as just about anything in the game hahaha

1. What HQs CAN dust him safely in a challenge? (Lillith? Trazyn?)

Forgeworld/super-heavy stuff (Angron, Tran C'tan), Failbaddon, Ghazzgul, Swamlord (subject to change due to new Codex), and any Necron Lord with luck and MSS. Theoretically with lady luck on your side, some characters with very specific rules like Yarick might be able to take him but Lysander is very solid.


2. Am I playing him correctly? (2+ 3++, Eternal warrior, one reroll to hit, 4 wounds, 3 attacks, S10, AP1 - seems a little broken, has there been an FAQ?)

He is not OP. He is a combat-oriented character which means he needs to be in combat to be effective. Basically its a character that lacks anything special other than monster-cc ability.


3. Why is Calgar so much more expensive when Darnath would rip his balls off?

Calgar as AP2 bolters, a bunch of rolls for Warlord and more attacks. He also gives you a random ability to take more honor guards in case you want to Apoc or something.

 Scipio Africanus wrote:
A Chapter Master with Shield Eternal and a Thunder Hammer, preferably in Artificer armour is equivalent to Lysander, but has an extra attack. He should be able to go toe to toe with lysander and come out on top. The only thing lysander has on him is master crafting.

Ordinary hammer is s8 ap2 right? How much does he run you?

I'm wondering if that's a better choice, Darnath restricts you to IF chapter tactics and such, also does a CM have 4 wounds?

Actually, Ive just sat and read through the codex, so the way I see it, for the exact same points as Lysander, you can have a CM with one extra attack, same everything else, same save (artificer armor) same invuln and EW (Shield Eternal) and a Thunderhammer.

The difference being that you can choose your chapter tactics, get an Orbital Bombardment, and have adamantium will, the negatives being that you dont hit at s10 ap1.

Is that about the size of it? It seems like that might actually be worth doing..

Just tought of another contester from C: Eldar.
Karandas.

Five S8 AP2 hits with WS and Initiative 7 (and a single S6 autohit).

And he has good chances on re-rolling wounds.

Lysander is beast. I took him into my Tau army when Kroot became unusable (they have since fixed Kroot in the new dex but for a bit there, Lysander and his toughty Tactical Terminators were rocking the scene.

 soomemafia wrote:
Just tought of another contester from C: Eldar.
Karandas.

Five S8 AP2 hits with WS and Initiative 7 (and a single S6 autohit).

And he has good chances on re-rolling wounds.

Doubtful, unless I missed Karandas having an Invuln saves somewhere. He can dish out the punishment but he cannot take it.

Asurmen could take him, on the other hand.

He has a 4++ and that nasty sword.

Maybe Jain Zar? Disarming Strike makes Lysander feel all sad and lonely inside.

What gives Asurmen a 4++?

Disarming strike is good, but if it doesnt go off in the first round your in trouble.

 mattyrm wrote:

 Scipio Africanus wrote:
A Chapter Master with Shield Eternal and a Thunder Hammer, preferably in Artificer armour is equivalent to Lysander, but has an extra attack. He should be able to go toe to toe with lysander and come out on top. The only thing lysander has on him is master crafting.

Ordinary hammer is s8 ap2 right? How much does he run you?

I'm wondering if that's a better choice, Darnath restricts you to IF chapter tactics and such, also does a CM have 4 wounds?

Actually, Ive just sat and read through the codex, so the way I see it, for the exact same points as Lysander, you can have a CM with one extra attack, same everything else, same save (artificer armor) same invuln and EW (Shield Eternal) and a Thunderhammer.

The difference being that you can choose your chapter tactics, get an Orbital Bombardment, and have adamantium will, the negatives being that you dont hit at s10 ap1.

Is that about the size of it? It seems like that might actually be worth doing..

If the different combat tactics benefit your army more it'd be worth it, though the Imperial Fists chapter traits seem pretty good anyway. Only problem they'd be is the loss of EW, which might hurt against MCs and lucky 8+ hits.

 Schwarmfuhrer wrote:
bio-buffed swarmlord would absolutely demolish ironballs

I don't care what rational arguments have been proposed after this; I said the above sentence, out loud in a supermarket.

I advise you all to do the same.

It is so full of win.

Lysander has taken a huge nerf from last edition and is almost unplayable now.

His stat line is mostly unchanged but he's 30 points more and his army buffs are weaker.

No real reason to use him now over a chapter master or a much cheaper captain.


If your looking for a one on one duelist beatstick try out the Rage Master.

Chapter master on bike/w grav pistol and burning blade.
master craft the pistol for guarenteed shinanigans.

He shoots, wounds, concussion kicks in, charges, opponent tests for blind on init. 1, he then drops a hammer of wrath hit and 6 str 7 ap2 attacks hitting on 3 againgst ws1 (no matter who it is cause of blind) before they get to swing.

If they somehow survive, they are swinging back at init. 1 and only hitting on 5's againgst his toughness 5 2+/4++

- Abaddon the Despoiler simply violates him out of the table (along with anything else he meets).
- Ghazghkull Thraka during WAAAGH! (2+/2++ is just too much for Lysander)
- Mind Shackle Scarabs on any Necron HQ: he starts smacking himself with S10. Been there, experienced it, and hate it.
- Tons and tons of disposable bodies in melee. Those armour saves WILL fail some day. Lysander can eat many nasty models in close combat, but can't stop massive rushes by himself.

It's true, that Lysander is still an insane character that grinds many other nasty models, but he's not unbeatable.

I'm for some of the Phoenix lords
ASURMEN has 4++ higher ws,int and chance of one hitting

Fuegan has FnP, and eternal warrior so a bit like a 5++ but can get 10 str 10 attacks(so wanna try this) and a higher ws, int

Jain zar might do it if Lysander doesn't camp in cover, and she will likely make the charge because of her larger movement, and if she disarms she prob kill him.

a wraithknight with a sword and shield might do it, I don't know

A few of the Phoenix Lords for Eldar match up well.

Jain Zar is a good counter.

Asurmen is just as beast.

Fuegan can be a bish in the right scenario.

All of these have AP2 or better shooting attacks available to them that are 'Assault', so keep that in mind too.