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2014/09/10 23:04:53
Subject: D&D (Fifth Edition): Basic Rules Free PDF (link in OP)
I actually came from that "school" of "creating experiences for players." Over the years, I realized it was unnecessarily difficult (I am not a mind reader yet) and more than a little condescending. (Not meaning you are a condescending person, mind.) As it turns out, players have their own ideas about what they want to experience in the game. If you take a look at the history of D&D, you will find that the DM's job is to facilitate or host player agency. This is the main thing video games have not yet been able to do as compared to table top gaming.
You seem to be interpreting my posts in a very extreme (I daresay impossibly extreme) manner. I think I have posted ITT about a dozen times that I prefer to run D&D off the cuff. That means world building happens during play with the input of the rest of the players. This is not a matter of knowing what is in a room on the other side of the world. Often enough, I have not even known what is inside of a chest at the feet of the PCs until they did.
So let's not take that wrong turn.
What I am actually talking about is -- the PCs are not the center of the world in terms of the 'physics' of that world. The mountain is no easier to climb just because the PCs are no good at climbing it. If climbing the mountain is too difficult it is up to the PCs and not the DM to come up with a different plan. The role of the DM here is to make sure the players have a reasonably accurate understanding of the odds so that they can make good plans -- or suffer the consequences.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/09/10 23:36:48
Manchu wrote: DMG features Lord Soth for the Death Knight entry:
Spoiler:
I'm loving the look of that thing. Well I guess I could take or leave the torch, but the round helmet with the glowing eyes and the cape. For some reason this design just really pops for me.
2014/09/12 13:07:48
Subject: Re:D&D (Fifth Edition): Basic Rules Free PDF (link in OP)
So my group had its third session for HotDQ last night:
Spoiler:
Previously, after rescuing Greenest, we interrogated one of the cultists our group took prisoner and found out where the main cultist camp was. So last night's group - a human sorcerer, a dwarf fighter, a dwarf druid, a dwarf rogue, and a halfling rouge - set off. We ambushed a small camp of cultist, took another one prisoner and found out a few more things, such as that there was another half-dragon in addition to the one that almost killed our Human Paladin in a single blow during the last session.
On the way to the camp we were ambushed, but managed to talk our way our that to a bag of "loot" (sticks, stones and paper) that the halfling was carrying, and by convincing the guards that the druid ws actually a dwarven performing bear. One of the cultist guards decided to tag along because he wanted to see the bear perform, but he was quickly killed and the body hidden.
Once in the main camp, the party split up. The two rogues climbed up to the higher watchtower and, after plying the already-celebrating guards with more drinks, surveyed the camp. They spotted a single person tied up on a wooden X across the camp.
The other three decided to put on a show as a distraction. The sorcerer used cantrips, the druid acted as a dancing bear, and the fighter was the bouncer. Langdedrosa Cyanwrath took an interest in the bear, and set up a fight between the druid and four kobolds, which were promptly killed. Impressed, Cyanwrath started to haggle with the fighter over the bear, which was sold for 50 gold.
Meanwhile, the two rogues managed to sneak over to the man, who turned out to be the missing monk they had been sent out to look for. He was cut down, and a knocked out cultist was put in his place (with a little hair cut to help the disguise). In order to sneak back out of the camp with the monk, the rogue wrapped up the monk like a dead body and hustled him out. When challenged by the camp guards, this conversation happened.:
Guard: What'cha got there? Nabbi (Dwarf Rogue): Dead body. Gotta dispose of it. Guard: Why not do it in the camp? Nabbi: 'Cause of the plague! Guard: Plague? Nabbi: Yeah, ever here of the Black Death? Guard: Black Dea- Nabbi: It'll rot yer nuts right off! Guard: Oh! gak, alright. *Yelling to other guards* Hey guys, get down here and help burn this body. Nabbi: Wait, wait, you can't burn the body. Guard: No, we've got to burn it. The plague, right? Nabbi: No, you can't burn the body, on account of the... spores. Guard: Spores? Nabbi: Yeah, yeah, the spores. They get everywhere if the body's set on fire. Guard: That doesn't soun- Nabbi: Look, we're specialists, alright? Outta the way before everyone in the camp's gotten sick.
And so the rogues were let pass and got out of the camp.
Of course, this left the other half of the party in the middle of the enemy camp with the show winding down. It also probably didn't help that the sorcerer spotted the two rogues running past with what looked like a wrapped up body held by both of them. So they stopped the show for an "intermission", the druid changed back into a dwarf, and they went to the back of the camp, where they discovered eight human captives, taken from Greenest, under guard. Their was a little debate as to whether or not they could be saved, with the rogues unable to help as they were nowhere nearby and couldn't be contacted. So the druid, using his personal sack of dried mushroom, spiked a few more drinks and knocked out three of the four guards. The last one started to get hot, thirsty, and really wanted to take his clothes off, but the fighter just knocked him out. The guards were stripped and rolled into the ditch the captives had been digging, and four of the captives got their clothes. On their way out they were helped along by rumors of some sort of plague spreading through the camp, and got out safely.
There was a little bit of confusion when the two groups met up outside the camp ("What the hell are you guys doing with a bunch of cultists?!") but it was quickly sorted out, and by taking a longer path the party managed to avoid any cultist patrols. We safely made it back to Greenest, informed the leaders of what we learned, returned the captives to their families, and collected our gold.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/09/12 13:08:15
Chongara wrote: I'm loving the look of that thing. Well I guess I could take or leave the torch, but the round helmet with the glowing eyes and the cape. For some reason this design just really pops for me.
Dude must be famous. Luckily I don't think my players are any more familiar with the character than I am, so I'll get to use the art for something with drawing raised eyebrows. It's a damn cool design.
2014/09/12 21:24:36
Subject: D&D (Fifth Edition): Basic Rules Free PDF (link in OP)
He is a prominent antagonist from Dragonlance and for a time had his own domain in Ravenloft's Demiplan of Dread. TSR published several novels in which he was a main character. He has had his own miniature several times.
It seems most GM's wants to make a new novel using players, but no one wants to raid a dungeon for glory and riches. I just wanted to get that off my chest.
I'm still debating on whether to make my first full 5E character a Human or a Half-Orc Bear Totem Barbarian. If I go with the human I get another feat but if I go with the Half-Orc I can get slightly better starting stats.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
2014/09/12 22:32:47
Subject: Re:D&D (Fifth Edition): Basic Rules Free PDF (link in OP)
Ahtman wrote: It seems most GM's wants to make a new novel using players, but no one wants to raid a dungeon for glory and riches. I just wanted to get that off my chest.
I'm still debating on whether to make my first full 5E character a Human or a Half-Orc Bear Totem Barbarian. If I go with the human I get another feat but if I go with the Half-Orc I can get slightly better starting stats.
Feats seem strictly better than stats to me, they do so much and some give half a stat boost anyway. Also variant human gives you an extra skill which are like uber hard to get this edition.
EDIT: Also it looks there are exactly two conditions in which having +2 racial boost over the humans +1 actually really matters: You've got a 16 or a 18 for your based roll for your primary. I guess what I'm saying here is that barring specific circumstances human-variant is mad baller and kind of super good unless you really, really want one of the racial special powers.
If you've got a 14 or lower as your base roll in your primary, something has gone terribly wrong.
If you've got a 15 +1 brings to 16 (+3) and +2 brings you to 17(+3). Then you first stat boost will be 18(+4) and 19(+4) respectively. All you really get out of the +2 is a little more flexibility with your 3rd stat boost.
If you've got a 16 it's worth it since you now have +4 instead of +3.
If you've got a 17 the same applies as 15 and then again for 18 being worth it.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/09/12 23:29:36
2014/09/12 23:26:32
Subject: D&D (Fifth Edition): Basic Rules Free PDF (link in OP)
I have no idea about much of anything in 5E but I just rolled up a Paladin that seems pretty good!
The 5e Paladin is way better implemented than the 3.P one. I'm kind of hoping someone rolls one for my game but none of the players I'm running are huge paladin fans, so I doubt they'll do it. I just really want to see on in action.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/13 00:37:23
2014/09/13 00:46:01
Subject: D&D (Fifth Edition): Basic Rules Free PDF (link in OP)
Speaking of artwork, what is with the halfling artwork I've seen? Some of it is... hideous and disturbing...
Spoiler:
This is the one I've seen talked about the most. I hope that's not from the 5e PHB like the person who sent the image to me said it was...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/13 12:14:27
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2014/09/13 12:21:30
Subject: D&D (Fifth Edition): Basic Rules Free PDF (link in OP)
Melissia wrote: Speaking of artwork, what is with the halfling artwork I've seen? Some of it is... hideous and disturbing...
Spoiler:
This is the one I've seen talked about the most. I hope that's not from the 5e PHB like the person who sent the image to me said it was...
It is from the PHB and it certainly is unpopular. The proportions are extremely odd but I'm not so sure I mind that.I've always kind of liked it when things aren't just "Human", "Short Human", "Human with Pointy Ears", "Short Human with Pointy Ears", "Green Human", "Half Human-Half Human with pointy ears" we seem to get with fantasy races. They certainly could have done better mind you, especially since haflings are so well established elsewhere. The gnome art was pretty poorly received too.
I found the art quality in the PHB very hit and miss and the Hafling is far from the worst offender in my mind.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2014/09/13 12:23:37
2014/09/13 18:06:50
Subject: D&D (Fifth Edition): Basic Rules Free PDF (link in OP)
Chongara wrote: especially since haflings are so well established elsewhere.
IIRC weren't halflings based on hobbits from LotR? So originally they looked more like this than scaled down humans:
Spoiler:
I did run across an artist on Deviantart that had done some halflings that appear similar to the one in the book, but not as bad. There is other D&D stuff there as well.
Spoiler:
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
2014/09/15 14:18:56
Subject: Re:D&D (Fifth Edition): Basic Rules Free PDF (link in OP)
IIRC weren't halflings based on hobbits from LotR? So originally they looked more like this than scaled down humans:
It seems like a safe assumption. I don't really mind the new look. Just seems like departure from what they were doing before I guess.
Got my first 5e game in this weekend and it went well:
Character building went pretty fast at least where areas other than spell selection were concerned.
My player base was a little different than usual 2 of my regular players + 2 of my regulars player's buddies. The new guys seemed like they might need a bit more prompting than my regular group, I'm a bit more used to PCs seeking out their own activities during downtime. Some that may be because coming from a 3+ year campaign, I'm a bit rusty at dealing with characters that aren't already well established.
our party was:
Human Fighter
Human Rogue
Elf Sorcerer
Centaur Bard - Yeah nonstandard. I've always wanted to run a game with Centaurs being common in the setting so I did. One of my players has apparently been waiting years to play a centaur and jumped at the chance with gusto. It's also just a good excuse to put together some home-brew material on the new system, which is one of my favorite parts of GMing.
Session summary if anyone's interested. It's kind of long.
Spoiler:
The premise of the game as that they'd all done some act of public service in their background and the crown was tapping known good citizens to help with a big ceremony being held to honor the birth of the king's child. So they along with about 400 other people, were getting called in to be assigned duties.
We had some light RP at the start of the session. I said they had about until late afternoon before they were supposed to turn up and just asked what they were doing.
Our bard went go look for a book. His public service was that he had helped to establish public school and ran into two fathers debating the merits of it, he jumped at the chance to expound upon the virtues of education. He convinced the less skeptical man to let his son try it, least for a little while.
The fighter was a mason by trade and had helped our bard with building said school. He ran into a member of his guild in argument with someone having some work down. They'd agreed to build the wall with special stone from a famous quarry, noted for it's strength. The stone in the wall was clearly of poorly quality and barely suited to build anything, with major cracks/breaks appearing just from the basic shaping being done. A nat-20 on his int check revealed that this was clearly the stone from the famous quarry, the appearance was a dead give away. However, the folks arguing weren't' terribly interested in a 3rd party butting in and didn't listen to him. He was curious enough to go talk to the supplier who was at a loss, it was the genuine article it and shouldn't be like that. His knowledge check again confirmed that it was the genuine article and shouldn't be like that, the facts just don't add up. Being out of time he left scratching his head on how such thing could be possible.
The Rogue was making a few coins showing some visitors around the city, he ran into a guy running a crooked game of chance. He was going to ignore it, but one the folks he was showing around suggested he expose the scam after he was told why they shouldn't play. He did so successfully and the scam artist packed up in left, he decided against getting the city guard involved.
The sorcerer ran into a rather confused looking visitor, something of a hermit who had only come to observe the ceremony. He helped him find an boarding at the home of a friend.
They answered their summons and got a simple fetch quest, for a monster from the swamp to the east. The feathers being vital for decoration. A bit flimsy but I wanted to keep things simple for the first outing.
On the road to the swamp they ran into a group of bandits harassing a merchant. They unanimously resolved to intervene right away,everyone seemed to be in for some heroics. The bandits tried to get them to back off. An insight roll from the bard let him pick up that two younger guys almost kids really were obviously new and not yet hardened criminals. While he leader was trying to get the group to back off, he berated the group generally and specifically called out the young guys about able to change their ways. He cranked his persuasion roll (something like a 23), so when the leader finally got fed up an ordered his men to attack the younger ones didn't join in, and just kind sheepishly stood back,.
The bandits weren't a particularly tough bunch and once they'd taken out the leader and another guy they start running. Not content to let them escape the bard chased them down while the rest of the group went to check on the merchant. He took out one of the fleeing bandits but the other turned and got in a good hit and dropped him. Seeing this the sorcerer turned blasted them, luckily he was only 2 rounds out so he just got patched up with the healers kit.
The merchant thanked them and gave them a small chest of medical supplies out of gratitude. The group debated what to do with the young (now former) bandits. They got grilled about their stories and seemed to have suitably sorry tales. Some insight checks all around they determined they were serious about shaping up and flying right. They asked what the merchant wanted thought of the situation (given he was the wronged party), and he got the same impression. Ultimately their weapons were confiscated and our fighter gave them a letter than would let them get some work. The older bandits were thoroughly hog tied and the merchant gladly offered to deliver them to the authorities. So the players went on their way.
They stopped briefly in a small town to rest, and talked with some of the locals on what to expect in the swamp. They confirmed it was a nasty placed filled with goblins and poisonous critters. They noted the goblins hadn't been coming out and attacking recently, which is a bit odd. They'd always been a major nuisance, stealing some of their hogs and other food items. The patrolman in the area had gone to investigate but hadn't gotten anything for his trouble but a goblin stealing his helmet. Which he wasn't looking forward to explaining come inspection time.
They ventured into the swamp and got ambushed by some goblins and their giant swamp rants. Since the players didn't detect them one of them ran off before the fight to tell others. The goblins seemed only to speak in "Long strings of profanity", which got a cheap chuckle out of the group when elaborated upon. They finished them off pretty easily, taking some scrapes.
They continued in for the better part of the day and got attack by a local variety of swamp ooze - I just pulled the stats of the "Death Dog" monster for this, as it was suitably beefy an poisonous. One of the players got poisoned, but they were able to use the medical supplies they got from the merchant to prevent the worst of the effects. The sorcerer got put down in this fight. However another use of the healer's kit kept out of any real danger of dying - It was seriously good investment for just 5gp.
They settled down for the night and the goblins attacked during the sorcerer's watch. Luckily he spotted them before the came in and the group was able to get weapons ready, though the fighter was obviously lacking his armor. One of the goblins as luck would have it was proudly wearing the pilfered helmet of the patrolman they'd talked to earlier, he tried to run when his buddies went down but a timely firebolt kept him from escaping. The sorcerer got put down again in this fight, once again healer's kit to the rescue.
The next morning they made into the part of the swamp where they think nests are. Their perception checks weren't great and disturbed a nest of angry snakes (used the stats for the flying snakes - just without the flying) that roughed up the party something fierce. Yikes. Put down both the rogue and the sorcerer this fight, but the bard had his cure wounds spell up this time.
Finally they get to the cockatrice nest, and beat pair living there. They also root around in the nest, take the eggs and them. The rogue had sadly succumb to the venom and was now statue. Rather than wait they just roped him to the centaur and donkey and pulled him out of the swamp. The goblins didn't bother them on the way out as they'd had enough beatings so they got out without trouble as they didn't stop to rest.
They stopped off in the small town again to sleep and return their patrolman's helmet. He thanked them and gave them a few coins for their trouble. They returned to the city prize in hand, and we ended the session on their way to turn it in. Between the fights and little bonus XP for RP, they'd reached 2nd level.
tl;dr: They had to go to a swamp to beat up a cockatrice. They ran into some bandits, folks got knocked out a few times but everything turned out OK. They hit level 2.
The proficiency bonus system was nice. It was intuitive and kept things from chugging when a players were looking for IC information that didn't neatly fall into one of the knowledge skills, I could just grant them it if it seem plausible if that's something their character would likely have heard somewhere. I suspect this something I'll be doing a lot.
I need to be keeping a more active mind about advantage/disadvantage. I didn't grant advantage even once during the session and disadvantage only once, though abilities on both sides wound up doing so a few times.
Everyone felt very functional out of the box, which was great. The game also played very, very fast. The session lasted about 5 hours, and we did 6 combats in addition to the RP. Coming off 2 or 3 hour long single combats from 3.P and Iron Kingdoms it was a breathe of fresh air. Having no miniatures to deal with and no fiddly modifiers really sped things up.
The fighter chose the protection style, which did a lot of work. I think it kept people from getting critted to death 3 or 4 times since the disadvantage wound up downgrading natural 20s into just regular hits.
The Rogue got a lot time to shine offensively, it was nice ranged sneak attack triggers are no longer needlessly annoying.
Sorcerer was effective, when he was up. He spent a lot of time at 0 hp. Part of this is just an artifact of being first level and having all of 8hp, part of it was also that my dice were on fire.
The Bard was good, he had a cantrip that granted disadvantage on attack rolls with a failed wisdom save. Just like the fighter's protection ability this saved a lot of pain. It would have been even better if I hadn't been rolling nat 15+ on 70% of the saves. My dice were seriously on fire this session (why does this never happen when I play wargames? sigh)
I enjoyed running it and player feedback was overwhelmingly positive as well. The Sorcerer was understandably a bit frustrated that he wound up on the wrong end of a game of whack-a-mole, but beyond that no real complaints. He rolled max hit points so hopefully that'll be less of an issue next time.
I do like that between short rests granting healing, the fighter's second wind and long rests being a full restoration PCs seem a lot less vulnerable to hit point attrition than in 3.P, even if they're still fairly fragile in the context of a single encounter. I'm really looking forward to next week.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/09/15 14:30:25
2014/09/15 14:26:51
Subject: D&D (Fifth Edition): Basic Rules Free PDF (link in OP)
Thanks for the recap. I've been wondering about Sorcerer. It doesn't seem very cool, but I'll probably try it anyway.
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2014/09/15 16:40:13
Subject: D&D (Fifth Edition): Basic Rules Free PDF (link in OP)
The fighter chose the protection style, which did a lot of work. I think it kept people from getting critted to death 3 or 4 times since the disadvantage wound up downgrading natural 20s into just regular hits.
The guy in our group that made a dwarven fighter chose the static +2 damage from Dueling Style (iirc) over Protection Style, to my chagrin. It wouldn't be an issue but he wants to be a defender type fighter. I think it stems from 4E mentality and worrying that giving disadvantage once a turn is less powerful than always doing two more damage. Of course it could be that it would allow me to do Reckless Attack more often as well...
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
2014/09/15 17:43:11
Subject: Re:D&D (Fifth Edition): Basic Rules Free PDF (link in OP)
The fighter chose the protection style, which did a lot of work. I think it kept people from getting critted to death 3 or 4 times since the disadvantage wound up downgrading natural 20s into just regular hits.
The guy in our group that made a dwarven fighter chose the static +2 damage from Dueling Style (iirc) over Protection Style, to my chagrin. It wouldn't be an issue but he wants to be a defender type fighter. I think it stems from 4E mentality and worrying that giving disadvantage once a turn is less powerful than always doing two more damage. Of course it could be that it would allow me to do Reckless Attack more often as well...
It seems immensely unpopular with the charop crowd in general. I suspect one line of thinking is that new abilities and items are acquired there is competition for the use your reaction. I'm not sure how many other battlemaster abilities are reactions, or if items grant powers like that. If you've consistently got stronger reaction options then the fighting style would be a waste. Then again maybe that isn't an issue. It could also be that folks under value disadvantage since it's a newfangled thing.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/15 17:43:43
2014/09/15 17:53:25
Subject: Re:D&D (Fifth Edition): Basic Rules Free PDF (link in OP)
The fighter chose the protection style, which did a lot of work. I think it kept people from getting critted to death 3 or 4 times since the disadvantage wound up downgrading natural 20s into just regular hits.
The guy in our group that made a dwarven fighter chose the static +2 damage from Dueling Style (iirc) over Protection Style, to my chagrin. It wouldn't be an issue but he wants to be a defender type fighter. I think it stems from 4E mentality and worrying that giving disadvantage once a turn is less powerful than always doing two more damage. Of course it could be that it would allow me to do Reckless Attack more often as well...
Having only played 1E and a bit of 2E, that paragraph makes me a bit less inclined to try 5th!
2014/09/15 18:01:25
Subject: D&D (Fifth Edition): Basic Rules Free PDF (link in OP)
Chongara wrote: It seems immensely unpopular with the charop crowd in general. I suspect one line of thinking is that new abilities and items are acquired there is competition for the use your reaction. I'm not sure how many other battlemaster abilities are reactions, or if items grant powers like that.
I think he went Battlemaster so that is probably it, and a bit of Disadvantage being undervalued.
Alpharius wrote: Having only played 1E and a bit of 2E, that paragraph makes me a bit less inclined to try 5th!
Noooooo!
Fighters get a bonus to using certain weapon combinations not unlike in Skills and Powers. Protection Style is when they are using 'Sword and Board' they give enemies Disadvantage to attacking nearby allies as a Reaction. There is also a Dueling Style which requires using only a one handed weapon with no weapon in the other hand that just gives a +2 to damage. A Shield isn't a weapon so you can use a shield and get the dueling style.
Personally I use a Maul, because I am a man. /flex
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
2014/09/15 20:01:05
Subject: D&D (Fifth Edition): Basic Rules Free PDF (link in OP)
I let my players decide on a party they wanted and I'll make a campaign for it.
Currently, it is looking like pirates.
- "Starbuck-esque" Ranger
- "Queequeg-esque" Barbarian
- Squeezebox playing Bard
- Random DMPC for funsies
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