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Yes.

 Ahtman wrote:
We ended up with all martial so I ended up switching from Barbarian to an Elven Evoker (I was on the fence about it anyway) to give us a little balance. So a few quick questions about magic. It sounds like I can cast a spell I have memorized for the day any amount of times up to my number of spells for the day, is that correct? As it stands I have four Level 1 and three Level 2, so if I wanted to I could cast Magic Missile four times as Level 1 and twice as a Level 2 if I wanted? I know I can memorize more spells but it doesn't seem like you are only limited to X uses of Spell Y. Is this an accurate understanding of how the new spell system works?

Correct. The details of how the various classes memorize spells vary a bit but you've got the basics of it.


So had my 2nd 5e session last night.

Not much new to report on the engine, as it was mostly an RP session. Most the time was just spent making small talk with NPCs and exploring what the characters had been doing in their off-time. The good news here is the engine didn't seem to get in the way of this.

I had one big combat at the end of the session, as the players were taking in part in a big ceremony and it got it attacked.

I'd structred it so discrete "Encounters" worth of monsters were in groups at various locations attacking citizens. They weren't well organized, so any one group wouldn't start fighting the players until they went in and struck first. This let me have the kind of big chaotic combat I wanted to put in, without it being an auto-TPK because there are like 20x the normal number of monsters around. This worked mostly well, though our Centaur bard once again ran off to face a group of enemies alone and went down in one round.

2nd level was a big improvement over first, since most characters couldn't be put down in a single non-crit. I used a bunch of Mephits from the Monster Manual in the encounters and those death blasts are nasty. I probably would have liked a design where you could do something to avoid proccing them. Some of my players expressed a similar thought after the session. It was a minor complaint. Still at least it shows me & my players are roughly on the same page when it comes to the kind of mechanics we like, which is always a good thing.

The end result is that a really evil looking dude, in a horned helmet and armor with skulls on it wound up kidnapping the royal baby. Thanks to a contrived legal technicality, the players are (of course) the only ones the king can send on the rescue.

Next session will be the first time players will be doing any big amount of major overland travel so we'll see how the game handles that. I'm still a bit stiff with the system but it's working well and everyone is enjoying it. Hopefully things will work out in a way where I can pull some more variety out of the Monster Manual, as I still don't have a great feel for encounters yet.

I think I can see why magic-users are as powerful as they are, even at lower levels!

 Alpharius wrote:
I think I can see why magic-users are as powerful as they are, even at lower levels!

How so exactly? I agree with this statement I'm just wondering if you clarify your exact thinking is all.

Side Note: Bardic Inspiration has been a total winner, it's a fun interactive mechanic that makes both the bard and receiving player think and rolling extra dice is always fun.

Well, I could be wrong of course - and I probably am! - but I'm used to the Magic-User progression from 1E/2E.

What Ahtman just described? Wow!

And all these 'at will' type things too...

 Alpharius wrote:
Well, I could be wrong of course - and I probably am! - but I'm used to the Magic-User progression from 1E/2E.

What Ahtman just described? Wow!

And all these 'at will' type things too...

Well the at-will cantrips are minor spells that do minor damage or have small carrier effects. They're not quite as robust as even full weapon attacks for the most part but they give casters magic-y things to do when they're out of slots. They scale with level but they're never terribly impressive, just to give casters something a bit better to do than shoot crossbow bolts when they're out real spell slots.

The spell slots thing does give more flexibility, but it's a downgrade power-wise from the 3.P era. Since spells no longer naturally scale with caster level. I can't compare to 1e/2e as that was before my time.

 Ahtman wrote:
We ended up with all martial so I ended up switching from Barbarian to an Elven Evoker (I was on the fence about it anyway) to give us a little balance. So a few quick questions about magic. It sounds like I can cast a spell I have memorized for the day any amount of times up to my number of spells for the day, is that correct? As it stands I have four Level 1 and three Level 2, so if I wanted to I could cast Magic Missile four times as Level 1 and twice as a Level 2 if I wanted? I know I can memorize more spells but it doesn't seem like you are only limited to X uses of Spell Y. Is this an accurate understanding of how the new spell system works?

To my understanding, yes. Here's how it works in my mind:

Ever caster (which is, admittedly, all but a couple of classes (2 of 3 fighters, 2 of 3 rogues, barbarians, anything I've missed) has a selection of known spells: Sometimes it's set by the class (clerics get the entire cleric list I believe) , sometimes it's chosen from a list (many classes), etc. Wizard (and specialists) are a little weird in that they explicitly have a 'spell book' for their known spells that can be added to by finding spells.

Then you have your Prepared Spells. Again, slightly differences by class. You can prepare as many spells as listed, and shouldn't prepare duplicates. Preparing is a 'Long rest' activity as I understand.

Actual casting is controlled by spell slots. Each class has a 'pyramid' of spell slots not unlike older editions: 3 1st level, 2 2nd level, 1 3rd level as an example. All casters canst spontaneously from these, by picking a prepared Spell and the desired spell slot upon casting. So if you're casting a 1st level spell, you can use a 1st level slot or or higher level slot depending on how much magic you need.

One big change is spells (except cantrips) don't auto-level by caster level. They get more powerful when a higher-level slot is used.

Cantrips are 0-level and break some of these rules. No spell slots, they're like 4e 'At-Will' abilities that can be spammed every turn (you can even cast a spell and a cantrip in a turn under proper circumstances). They do level with the caster, but tend to be relatively minor abilities... Although a fe classes are probably 'dependent' on cantrips to an extent, like the Warlock.

One thing to note is every aster is a bit different. Many get some spells back with a Short Rest (an hour-long rest, so still a serious decision in a dungeon) or a Long Rest for all slots.

One design decision I was initially critical of was reverting to giving paladins, rangers, etc. spells in lieu of class-specific abilities. They pulled this off, and it should be noted the spells these classes get aren't just low-level spells from dedicated casters, but focused spells for that class. For example, the Paladin's Smites are now low-level Paladin spells.

I like the inclusion of concentration (though they stole my idea so that is part of why I like it) as a way to limit how many spells a caster can have running at a given time.

 Ahtman wrote:
I like the inclusion of concentration (though they stole my idea so that is part of why I like it) as a way to limit how many spells a caster can have running at a given time.

Yeah, it does mean that your caster needs a second trick though. Our elf mage carries a shortbow just for this circumstance.

You can cast other spells while concentrating, just not other concentration spells. Well that isn't quite right, you can cast other concentration spells but it would git rid of the last one. You should always have a back up though. My Elven Evoker has a Long Sword, Short Sword, and a Short Bow as back up weapons.

Oh really? I don't know how I missed that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wow. Just read it again and we completely played it wrong (thought you couldn't cast any spells when concentrating).

Anyone get the MM yet? I'm wondering if there is a random encounter chart in it. It could also be in the DMG but it never hurts to ask. I was thinking of running a completely random dungeon where the dungeon and contents are generated on the fly for off days when the DM can't make it and the like.

 Ahtman wrote:
Anyone get the MM yet? I'm wondering if there is a random encounter chart in it. It could also be in the DMG but it never hurts to ask. I was thinking of running a completely random dungeon where the dungeon and contents are generated on the fly for off days when the DM can't make it and the like.

Yes I have it, no it doesn't.

 Chongara wrote:
Yes I have it, no it doesn't.

Well that just makes me sad.

Generally those are in the dmg.

 pretre wrote:
Generally those are in the dmg.

I know, but that is still a bit aways and I am nothing if not hopeful.

Well I don't think it'd be too hard to cobble together one's own random encounter table. You could probably get something functional for your game with an online CR index and hour of work.

Use the original tables. Spoilered

Enjoy meeting a Wraith at 1st level though. Ouch.

 Red Harvest wrote:
Enjoy meeting a Wraith at 1st level though. Ouch.

"You can't win. But there are alternatives to fighting."

 Manchu wrote:

 Red Harvest wrote:
Enjoy meeting a Wraith at 1st level though. Ouch.

"You can't win. But there are alternatives to fighting."

How fast is a wraith this edition, are they still incorporeal? Not in front of MM right now, but traditionally they've had abilities that make it pretty hard to run away or go around them at low levels save your GM playing them as bound to particular place, or not interested in attacking the PCs.

I don't get your objection. "It won't work unless the DM plays it so it does."

 Chongara wrote:
Well I don't think it'd be too hard to cobble together one's own random encounter table. You could probably get something functional for your game with an online CR index and hour of work.

Oh absolutely. The dungeon layout will also be completely random as well as I am using Blue Dungeon Tiles to create it on the fly. The random list will be themed so would need to be home crafted anyway, it just would have made coming up with reasonable 'surprises' and probably a few unreasonable ones.

Walking speed was 12", same as a human. Flying speed was 24". 2-16 appeared. 4HD, level drainers and needed magical weapons to hit. The only chance for survival was to be the fastest in the party. Gygax was a bit bloodthirsty I think. Clerics did not have turn undead either :(

The power level of low level characters seems to have increased quite a bit over the years.

It's like you guys assume the world is nothing but a grid map with minis to move into and out of combat range.

There is more to getting into and getting out of trouble than movement speed. A random encounter table is not necessarily a random "either it dies or we die" table.

In the PC game Temple of Elemental Evil I got Shades as a random encounter at low level and couldn't hurt them and couldn't escape. It was fun.

Bummer. But it's always fun to roll up new characters

 Manchu wrote:
It's like you guys assume the world is nothing but a grid map with minis to move into and out of combat range.

There is more to getting into and getting out of trouble than movement speed. A random encounter table is not necessarily a random "either it dies or we die" table.

You must have missed this part of my comment,

 Red Harvest wrote:
Gygax was a bit bloodthirsty I think.

We are talking Original -as in from the little brown books- D&D here. The relevant quote from "The Underworld and Wilderness Adventures" booklet. Spoilered because of length

You could bargain with certain sorts of monsters, often to good end, to be sure, but low intelligence Wraiths? Nope. All they want is to drain your character's life. Nothing else mattered to them, not food, not treasure. You either got out of sight/got away or you fought them. Some monsters are just binary like that.

This grid thing? That is a 4e feature? We never had that. I and my little group, we are just now returning to D&D after a 20 year hiatus, FYI. This 5e is looking pretty good to us. And I am going to get stuck playing the magic-user :( They seem much improved. So maybe not so bad.

 Red Harvest wrote:
We are talking Original

Makes no difference. Random Encounter Tables have never been a matter of bloodthirstiness/DM dickery. Rather, they are about fantasy "ecology." Gygax and Arneson and everyone else who had a hand in creating D&D came from scenario-based wargaming and D&D has a strong simulationist bend because of it. I think I have some posts even ITT explaining this so-called "Gygaxian naturalism."

But nothing about game design or rules can get in the way of a bad DM.

 Manchu wrote:
But nothing about game design or rules can get in the way of a bad DM.

So following the rules as they are written would make someone a bad DM? Unless we assume the creators were idiots, it seems at odds to believe they would make rules specifically saying monsters will chase/kill you while also making you bad for following those rules; that random encounter chart wasn't a fan made item and was in the book and official and everything. I know a DM can houserule, but I've also seen you argue against people houseruling and ignoring rules before so I am a bit confused. Perhaps you just aren't making your point clearly enough.

Of course if one wants bloodthirsty then they should read the original Tomb of Horrors, though that was designed with bloodthirstiness in mind.

Hmm, no monstrous walls, ceiling, or floors in that list.

 Manchu wrote:
It's like you guys assume the world is nothing but a grid map with minis to move into and out of combat range.

There is more to getting into and getting out of trouble than movement speed. A random encounter table is not necessarily a random "either it dies or we die" table.

Some times it is kill or be killed. You know like a wrath. You can't really reason with a wrath.