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So I was discussing this with some friends over a LotR game today.

While the Fight system is certainly simple, it's a massive disadvantage if you have a fight even just one lower than your opponent. The difference between WS1 and WS10 in 40k/WHFB is nothing compared to the difference between F4 and F3 in LotR. The thing which annoys me, personally, is that if you have a lower fight then there's nothing you can do to win the fight except hope your opponent doesn't roll a 6, and that you roll higher. The thing that I really find is a terrible mechanic is that this holds true whether you have one model attacking something with higher fight, or ten models. I could attack something with higher fight fifty times, but if my opponent rolls a single six, I lose.

Don't get me wrong, I love the way LotR works in general, it's just that this (and the power of monsters, but that's a different story) seems far too unbalanced. I have actually come up with an alternate house rule, which we've used and works really well. Essentially, for each attack, you roll a dice and you need a 6 to have a chance to wound your opponent. However, the model with higher fight adds the difference between his fight and the enemy which he wishes to strike, up to a maximum of +3/4 (we still haven't decided on which is best). Personally, I think this system is great because it's still a big advantage to models with higher fight (as it should be), but gives models with lower fight a chance and, more importantly, having numerous models is far more effective. The only disadvantage is that, with this system, combats between stuff with equal fight can take a while, but it gives both models and equal chance and it's less of a "dice rolling competition".

So, Dakka, what do you think of the Fight system? Do you like it? Should it be changed, and if so, how?

Discuss away!

I'd change it so you roll a dice and add the fight value to the score, and if it's the same, roll again.

Not a bad system, certainly simpler than mine. The problem comes when you have loads of, say, fight 3 models, around a fight 9 model. It's unlikely to happen, but surely an infinite number of lesser models will be at least able to hit a higher fight model, even if it is a much higher fight.

Fight was a gaping flaw in an otherwise solid game system when I played it.

It definitely would be an issue. I think that the WS system like in the Warhammers wouldn't really work as well for LOTR, however, because the game seems intended to be relatively fast paced, and that would just bog things down.

I don't find Fight on its own to be all that weird; it's when you have models with a high number of attacks and superior Fight. They just wind up with a huge chance of winning a battle against any number of enemies outright by rolling a 6 (the Balrog's chance is something like 52%).

I'm not sure if it's a bad thing or just a quirk, though. Something that needs to be kept in mind when engaging enemies with high fight and high numbers of attacks.

Of course, if by "the Fight system" you mean the contested roll rather than the method by which ties are broken then I love it and think it's one of the most awesome parts of the game.

By the fight system I mean the whole thing to do with fight in combat. So the roll off, with higher fight winning in the case of a draw, and another roll off should fight be equal.

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:
I'd change it so you roll a dice and add the fight value to the score, and if it's the same, roll again.

My brothers and I did that for the longest time before actually reading the rules (Turns out we first learned to play LoTR with that as a house rule thinking it was a real rule). It really did make Fight Value matter a lot more than "Oh you happened to roll a tie! You win! Wasn't better Fight value worth the extra points?" I kinda really wish more people played with it because generally I find that, more often than not, a gang of low Fight value grunts more preferable than a few high Fight elites.

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:
It definitely would be an issue. I think that the WS system like in the Warhammers wouldn't really work as well for LOTR, however, because the game seems intended to be relatively fast paced, and that would just bog things down.

It would also sabotage the almost real-time pace of it as well. The reason I like LoTR loads more than WHFB and the like is that it's the closest thing to fantasy Infinity (IE, not waiting ages inbetween turns but rather have a more rapid distribution of I Go You Go to keep things even. I mean really the way 40k/WHFB do it make wars seem like a teeter-totter hay-maker boxing match), and the way Fights are contested really make it feel so great and just makes the game for me.

 Desert Fox wrote:

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:
I'd change it so you roll a dice and add the fight value to the score, and if it's the same, roll again.

My brothers and I did that for the longest time before actually reading the rules (Turns out we first learned to play LoTR with that as a house rule thinking it was a real rule). It really did make Fight Value matter a lot more than "Oh you happened to roll a tie! You win! Wasn't better Fight value worth the extra points?" I kinda really wish more people played with it because generally I find that, more often than not, a gang of low Fight value grunts more preferable than a few high Fight elites.

Really? Because, for me, it's completely the other way around, which is the issue. Many a time have I charged Gil-galad or Elrond or whoever with, say, Eomer and a two or three mounted Royal Guard, only to have my opponent roll a 6 and win, despite my numerous attacks and the fact I'm smashing into this one elf with four cavalry models.