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So, there are those two neat FW walkers. They may not be the most points efficient units in the game, but they look awesome. The questions is, which one of them is better at big game hunting?

Take into account their most recent rules (IA: Apocalypse 2013) and consider all possible load outs. Which one of them, and with what equipment, would be the best when dealing with MCs?

I would say that the Decimator wins. 1. you can equip dual butcher cannons and they are 5 points cheaper per cannon. 2. Unholy vigor restores after being destroyed, making it much harder to kill. 3. It has the Deamon special rule. 4. Is a much cooler looking model.

I agree that Decimator looks better . Are the Butcher Cannons reliable enough, though? They're Str 8, but only AP4. Perhaps firing 8 such shots may offset the mediocre AP, though.

How about Storm Lasers? They're obviously designed for MEQ-killing, but with Str 6 they can harm MCs as well. D3+1 shots per gun, though, so you may end up firing only 4 total.

EDIT: Actually, Storm Lasers are D3+2 shots, so you may fire 6 times, or 10 times. Nasty.

I've been looking at these things for a few days now and they seem to be pretty evenly matched for similar roles, so I think it's really just a matter of preference.

Contemptor is a better all-rounder, with higher WS and BS, but the Decimator comes with some neat tricks like deepstriking, grimoir invul buffing, slightly cheaper loadouts, and damage reduction through resilience and getting back up.

For a ranged build, I'd use a Contemptor with dual butcher cannons, (double butchers on a decimator is basically a 250pt forgefiend with better armour), for a melee build, I'd use a Khorne Decimator, dual flamers, deepstriking off an icon.
For a dual role, I'd use a Khorne Contemptor with one butcher cannon and a pfist, which should be able to rock pretty much anything, and still throws out 5-8 WS5 attacks on the charge (khorne decimator kicks out 6-9 WS3 on the charge, so its a bit of a wash)

So, Contemptor is a bit pricier points wise, but more killy, and the decimator is a bit cheaper, and a bit harder to kill (though the 5+ invul and the hellfire reactor are a wash)
Personally, I like the dual role with butcher cannon / pfist contemptor.

If you've got a walker with stats and gear like these things, it makes sense to me to get them in combat, or use them as multi-role baddies. Everyone complains that reglar dreads/hellbrutes suck, but then these guys are the perfect (though pricey) solution. If you need anti MEQ shooting, spend 115pts on a plasma predator (now in chaos flavour!) instead of popping stormlasers on an unreliable/innaccurate decimator.

 McGibs wrote:
I've been looking at these things for a few days now and they seem to be pretty evenly matched for similar roles, so I think it's really just a matter of preference.

Contemptor is a better all-rounder, with higher WS and BS, but the Decimator comes with some neat tricks like deepstriking, grimoir invul buffing, slightly cheaper loadouts, and damage reduction through resilience and getting back up.

For a ranged build, I'd use a Contemptor with dual butcher cannons, (double butchers on a decimator is basically a 250pt forgefiend with better armour), for a melee build, I'd use a Khorne Decimator, dual flamers, deepstriking off an icon.
For a dual role, I'd use a Khorne Contemptor with one butcher cannon and a pfist, which should be able to rock pretty much anything, and still throws out 5-8 WS5 attacks on the charge (khorne decimator kicks out 6-9 WS3 on the charge, so its a bit of a wash)

So, Contemptor is a bit pricier points wise, but more killy, and the decimator is a bit cheaper, and a bit harder to kill (though the 5+ invul and the hellfire reactor are a wash)
Personally, I like the dual role with butcher cannon / pfist contemptor.

If you've got a walker with stats and gear like these things, it makes sense to me to get them in combat, or use them as multi-role baddies. Everyone complains that reglar dreads/hellbrutes suck, but then these guys are the perfect (though pricey) solution. If you need anti MEQ shooting, spend 115pts on a plasma predator (now in chaos flavour!) instead of popping stormlasers on an unreliable/innaccurate decimator.

The Contemptor cannot have dual ranged weapons (butcher cannon, storm lazer, etc.) only the Decimator can do that.

Make sure you're up to date on the newest rules for it in Imperial Armour Apocalypse 2013 (confusing, what with IA: Apocalypse 2 and IA: Apocalypse Second Edition)

Chaos Contemptors can take butcher cannons, TL autocannons, TL lascannons, multimeltas, and plasmacannons on both arms.

Dedication to Khorne also gives them rage and rampage, meaning they can spit out a craptop of powerfist attacks.

McGibs is right, according to the newest rules Contemptors can indeed take two ranged arm weapons.

What about a Chaos Contemptor with two DCCW with inbuilt Plasma Blasters? Imagine a scenario where one charges a Trygon (may be even a Trygon Prime to even out the points cost):

1) Contemptor fires both Plasma Blasters and inflicts ~1,8 unsaved wounds to the Trygon, who cannot fire Overwatch (Front Armour 13 laughs at Str 5).
2) Contemptor has Fleet, so he's likely to succeed in his charge. Now, it's got 5 melee attacks total.
3) They have equal Initiative, so they trade blows simultaneously:
- in short, the Contemptor inflicts ~2,1 unsaved wounds.
- Trygon has to resort to using Smash to halve its attacks number to deal any damage. Consequently, it inflicts 1 wound. Now, if it is a glancing hit, Contemptor has a 50% chance to defend itself, and a 16% chance to defend from a penetrating hit. Penetrating hit may cause it to explode outright, but the chances are pretty slim.

3,9 wounds vs. 1 wound (with potential repercussions) seems pretty nice. Also, I suppose that such a Contemptor would be effective against vehicles (unless AV14) and teams of Terminators (unless Storm Shield).

What do you think?

And then you take a Decimator with a Conversion Beamer and nuke half a board...

I don't know what most of you think on the matter. but a 230 point Conversion Beamer with Large Blast str 10 ap 1 is disgusting.

Put 3 on your side of the board and you effectively have anti tank walkers that can punch transports that get too close and burn people inside if need be.

I personally take 1 when I play Daemons just because Daemons lack good, reliable shooti that isn't Psyker related. They perform WONDERS for me every time I field them.

Or you take a contemptor with a conversion beamer and nuke half the board more accuratly.

Or a relic predator with a conversion beamer for 145pts and nuke half the board more accuratly and 100pts cheaper.

Str10 AP1 Large Blast is nasty, but remember that it works like that only at a 42"+ range. Also, you either move, or fire the weapon. IMHO, it's much better in Apoc, where the table is considerably larger.

At this point I'm quite confident that Contemptor with 2x DCCW with inbuilt Plasma Blasters is a great tough-unit-killer, be they Terminators, tanks or MCs.

 McGibs wrote:
Or you take a contemptor with a conversion beamer and nuke half the board more accuratly.

Or a relic predator with a conversion beamer for 145pts and nuke half the board more accuratly and 100pts cheaper.

Can Chaos Space marines field relic predators in 40k games?

Sure can, in the IA Apoc 2013 book.
Standouts are the plasma pred, and conversion pred.

Here's mine.

Thank you and sorry for bringing it off topic. Great model by the way!

Are the rules for both Chaos Contemptors and Decimators in the same book? Which book/books can I find the 6th Ed rules in? There just so many on the ForgeWorld website

I use the Decimator Daemon Engine a few time wiht a warpmsmith close to him just to keep it alive and it was a good combo.

A great thing with the decimator it is a elite choice for both daemons and CSM. Use a CSM army allied with daeamon with the decimator as an elite choice.

The Contemptor is more conventionally durable thanks to it's armor value and shielding, but the Decimator is like Wolverine in that it's hard to get damage to stick on the damn thing. The Decimator has more interesting guns, but it's hard to go wrong with a Khornate Contemptor with two fists and plasma blasters which gives you four S7 AP2 shots at 18' and a nice bundle of powerfist attacks on the charge on a Krak grenade proof and fleet platform. Just be aware that it's costly and should still have some caution with engaging in punch outs with monstrous creatures (Dreadknights and Wraithknights in particular should be watched out for) and should still fear enemies with armorbane. Of course, if you fail to deal with that fire-dragon squad popping out of a wave-serpent before throwing your Contemptor into melee that's entirely your fault.

I have run my dual CCW decimator with my daemons. First off, the decimator is an awesome build. The leg structure is similar to that of a scout titan. I was provided with a few challenges along the way that made this one of my favorite builds ever.

Dual butcher cannon can be awesome, not for anti infantry, but for anti everything else. Think of it as a beefed up autocannon and run it like a riflemen dread. Shoot down fliers and FMCs!

I run mine with dual CCWs and I deepstrike it. I give it mark of nurgle so it gets shrouded and defensive grenades, as well as ++5 and IWND. That is a steal for 25pt, and makes it awesome for up in your face assaults. When within overwatch or flamer range, it has a +4 cover thanks to MoN (shrouded for 5, defensive grenades for 4)
2 heavy flamers wont melt marines, but will pile on the wounds, meanwhile pretty much every other troop choice in the game will be destroyed.

Lastly, you are looking at 6 attacks on the charge, smashing will get you 4 attacks. Sure, only being S6 stinks against MCs, but 4 S10 attacks isn't too bad. Plus if you pen a vehicle or building, the inhabitants will take 2D6 heavy flamer hits.

The problem with both is you are looking at land raider costs.

 sub-zero wrote:
I would say that the Decimator wins. 1. you can equip dual butcher cannons and they are 5 points cheaper per cannon. 2. Unholy vigor restores after being destroyed, making it much harder to kill. 3. It has the Deamon special rule. 4. Is a much cooler looking model.

I like the way this guy thinks!

 greg0985 wrote:
Are the rules for both Chaos Contemptors and Decimators in the same book? Which book/books can I find the 6th Ed rules in? There just so many on the ForgeWorld website

Imperial Armour: Apocalypse (2013)

The nice thing about the Conversion Beamer is that It's not Ordinance. Simply "Heavy" And even if my targets moved towards me to get within the 42" buffer It's still a STR 8 Large Blast Sure it's not STR 10 AP1 but it's still enough to pop a lot of the transports out there and deal serious casualties to infantry.

I also LOVE the built in heavy flamers on its Siege Claw. Punching Land Raiders or Battle Wagons and roasting the guys inside when you Penetrate for free is always a bonus!