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Okay. I am not asking for info about what other units to look for this time, I've already got a list of them, and I don't need to add to it.
Using the models I do have, I've set about trying to make a not-very-common list involving Be'lakor. The end result is, let's be honest, a bit of a mess.

The list is either:


Or



The plan is:
-The Predator, Havocs and CSM squad sit back and shoot.
-The zombies advance in a column (small unit in front, Typhus and larger unit in back).
-The Heldrake burns.
-Be'lakor buffs/debuffs for the first part of the battle, and then goes in for the kill. Probably end up trying to get invisibility on whatever seems to be my opponent's main target.

Any tips on effectiveness or tactics?

EDIT: ffs, how many times can I get the spoiler code wrong?




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Any thoughts?

Any thoughts at all?
Weaknesses, strengths?

Buy/kit bash 5 spawn. Always run 1 Turkey and 5 x Spawn w/ MoN (@ Drake cost + 10)

 FeindusMaximus wrote:
Buy/kit bash 5 spawn. Always run 1 Turkey and 5 x Spawn w/ MoN (@ Drake cost + 10)

That sounds reasonable - it'll be something to keep my enemy on his toes

It's Christmas time, the thoughts of players turn from the grimdark to egg nog. ;p

This is an interesting list and, as you say, not something I would expect to see. I personally like all the long-range firepower and believe it's underused in CSM armies. You get points for including CSMs as well, they are not as useless as people think. So I like it for the daring choices and see some potential.

Be'lakor tactics are still something people are working out, it's clear he's not going to create deathstars on his own in CSM armies, but what is he good for? When I first read your list, I was really focused on the heavy support, but then I started thinking about the possibilities for what you could actually do with those plague zombies. I think the big question for you to answer is whether Be'lakor is for assaulting or whether he's for supporting other units. I do not use him in my armies, but can see why he would make things tough on a Chaos Lord.

So, I would say there is potential to be a mismatch between your HQ and unit options. You have a list built around long-range firepower, an HQ that is typically used to support assault units, and not a lot of scoring units. You could certainly use Be'lakor to assault / harass your opponent, but there's not a lot else to support him if he flies straight up the board. Your tactics really need to be focused on how your HQs can support the rest of your army, and vice versa.

Here are some to consider:

1) It's clear you are going to be marching your plague zombies up the board. Have them soak up fire while your other 2 troops grab objectives. You don't have a lot of scoring units, so it's going to be important to protect them. Making a decision early that one unit is going to be the big, blobby sacrifice unit might help keep you out of situations where you don't have scoring units left on the board towards the end of the game.

2) You have a lot of firepower between the havocs and the predator, but they are not perfect. Use them to harass weaker units earlier in the game, things you have a reasonable expectation of killing. Wait to go after tougher thing until the Heldrake is on the board and (hopefully) soaking up some snap shots. But don't fall into the trap of trying to fight everything, this list is all about creating mismatches and exploiting them.

3) Regarding Typhus - You have a strong delivery vehicle for Plague Wind or Nurgle's Rot with your Plague Zombies. I would use Be'lakor to make the large blob invisible and march them up the board to tie up and harass your opponent. Then try to out-psyker your opponent in close quarters, maybe use puppet master to have him shoot up his own guys.

4) Regarding Be'lakor - I see him as a model you want to use for psychic support early in a game, and as an assault monster later in the game. Try to use him as support early on, and keep him out of cc until you have engaged with the rest of your army. He can do a ton of damage with his vector strike, hammer of wrath and getting the charge. It's best to use this when he has some support.

5) There is a lot of AV in this list. Your tactics are going to need to vary based on who you are fighting. A word to the wise: when selecting a target, ALWAYS focus on scoring points before taking out a threat. When you do win with this list, it's going to be because you got the most VPs, not because you tabled your opponent. In practical terms, this means if you can kill that one last marine to get a VP, do that before you shoot up their attack bike squad.

6) I would deep strike these Obliterators. I think you will find in most games that it's more important to have them in the right position than to have them shooting every round. I could just see a situation where you have lost the Predator and need to shoot up something big that is blocked by range or LOS from your Havocs.

7) Are you sure about the missile launchers on the Havocs? Why not lascannons or autocannons? I get it that the ML offers some versatility, but I think these guys are going to need to be glancing vehicles to death or one-shotting them. It's more efficient to do so with other weapons.

8) Are you sure about the lascannon on the CSMs? Why not double flamers or plasma? I see this as an objective camping unit, and the lascannon is not ideal for that.

9) Are you sure about the large blob of Plague Zombies? While I think they might be great, I also think you could really use some more scoring units. I might even take one less Obliterator in exchange for one more scoring unit.

10) I would get an Icon of Vengeance on those CSMs. They need to be fearless.

 techsoldaten wrote:

1) It's clear you are going to be marching your plague zombies up the board. Have them soak up fire while your other 2 troops grab objectives. You don't have a lot of scoring units, so it's going to be important to protect them. Making a decision early that one unit is going to be the big, blobby sacrifice unit might help keep you out of situations where you don't have scoring units left on the board towards the end of the game. I love blobby sacrifices

2) You have a lot of firepower between the havocs and the predator, but they are not perfect. Use them to harass weaker units earlier in the game, things you have a reasonable expectation of killing. Wait to go after tougher thing until the Heldrake is on the board and (hopefully) soaking up some snap shots. But don't fall into the trap of trying to fight everything, this list is all about creating mismatches and exploiting them.

3) Regarding Typhus - You have a strong delivery vehicle for Plague Wind or Nurgle's Rot with your Plague Zombies. I would use Be'lakor to make the large blob invisible and march them up the board to tie up and harass your opponent. Then try to out-psyker your opponent in close quarters, maybe use puppet master to have him shoot up his own guys. This is pretty much what I was thinking too

4) Regarding Be'lakor - I see him as a model you want to use for psychic support early in a game, and as an assault monster later in the game. Try to use him as support early on, and keep him out of cc until you have engaged with the rest of your army. He can do a ton of damage with his vector strike, hammer of wrath and getting the charge. It's best to use this when he has some support. Shrouded should help a lot with that if I get him obscured by terrain, even a 5+ cover will become a 3+, 4+ to 2+. Add in being able to buff/debuff/mind control, and I think I know where I'm going with him

5) There is a lot of AV in this list. Your tactics are going to need to vary based on who you are fighting. A word to the wise: when selecting a target, ALWAYS focus on scoring points before taking out a threat. When you do win with this list, it's going to be because you got the most VPs, not because you tabled your opponent. In practical terms, this means if you can kill that one last marine to get a VP, do that before you shoot up their attack bike squad. By AV, do you mean Anti-Vehicle? Tactic noted.

6) I would deep strike these Obliterators. I think you will find in most games that it's more important to have them in the right position than to have them shooting every round. I could just see a situation where you have lost the Predator and need to shoot up something big that is blocked by range or LOS from your Havocs. That sounds like a good idea - my usual opponent won't expect his preds to get taken up the rear by three lascannons (or whatever is more appropriate at the time). Would there be any point in considering attaching Typhus to them?

7) Are you sure about the missile launchers on the Havocs? Why not lascannons or autocannons? I get it that the ML offers some versatility, but I think these guys are going to need to be glancing vehicles to death or one-shotting them. It's more efficient to do so with other weapons. I gave them quad missiles because I don't have any other weapons for them atm. I'm planning to buy a SM devvy squad for some LC fire. ML should be fun though, as my second most common opponent uses Orks with Speed Freek/Green Tide mashup. Being able to flip from taking out transports to butchering infantry should be beyond his capabilities for the first two turns.

8) Are you sure about the lascannon on the CSMs? Why not double flamers or plasma? I see this as an objective camping unit, and the lascannon is not ideal for that. I had been thinking of sticking them on the rearmost objective. My usual opponent likes to be maneuverable, and my thinking was that the LC would make him more cautious about where he puts his transports. That, and possible T1 fire. I could certainly see the use of a flamer, though.

9) Are you sure about the large blob of Plague Zombies? While I think they might be great, I also think you could really use some more scoring units. I might even take one less Obliterator in exchange for one more scoring unit. Last time I took 35 zombies, it was against a SM/Tau combo, and it still took the guy 4 turns to whittle it down. My thinking was that by giving them Invis for a turn or two, it'd be able to absorb even more firepower, and escort Typhus better.

10) I would get an Icon of Vengeance on those CSMs. They need to be fearless. I shall look into it.

Thankyou for the advice; I shall make a revised list soon

try a maulerfeinds, weakness is they cant hit well at ws3, make one invisible and all weaknesses evaporate, as your opponent struggles to hit at ws 1 and with the tendrils you can cut his units down to one attack that requires a 5+ to hit, meanwhile you pulp them with your fists. plus its an enormous distraction and only 135 points

 Blackskull wrote:
try a maulerfeinds, weakness is they cant hit well at ws3, make one invisible and all weaknesses evaporate, as your opponent struggles to hit at ws 1 and with the tendrils you can cut his units down to one attack that requires a 5+ to hit, meanwhile you pulp them with your fists. plus its an enormous distraction and only 135 points

Yes, that is one of the things I'm looking at buying sometime.

1751? Drop an autogun from a cultist.

 loreweaver wrote:
1751? Drop an autogun from a cultist.

Good point. Can't do it on the second list though. Will reconsider in the revised list.