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I was hesitant in buying the book when I saw the price, but I have always loved my favorite fallen angel and so decided to splurge.

My review-
the fluff is detailed and extensive. It was an enjoyable read. No great secrets are given away and things are pretty much kept in the whole "we dont know who cypher is fighting for... but most likely its to help the imperium"

The rules-
Cypher: yeah is an HQ but does not take up a slot. Can be with ANY imperial force (marines, sisters, and all) except the angels ( :( ) and of course Chaos space marines. He has a very unique fighting style that seems to perfectly capture his lore (i.e. the gunslinging badass we all know he is). Not to mention he is the now third HQ option in the chaos SM option to have EW. The rules are good and fluff-tastic... A nice combo and get even more interesting facing a DA army.

The BEST thing about the book. The best thing, is how the fallen are represented. I.E. chosen who do not suck. The formation is great. It makes running a fallen angel army pretty darn cool. Chosen with ATSNKF and Infiltrate, with no point increase you say? Oh yes please!

The missions: a little rehash from the DA codex but the rest is pretty cool. Varied and interesting.


Just an awesome supplement for a great character!

Is there any special rules for when Dark Angels face an army containing Cypher/Fallen?

Let's just say if you are fielding cypher against a DA army the game might just become a game of does cypher live or die . And those angels get a little extra angry when they know there is a chance to capture the greatest of the fallen.

How did you get to buy it so early? I mean I thought you had to wait till tomorrow, to get it, if you live in the States.

You neglected to mention that they are a chosen squad that CANNOT take a dedicated transport.. That basically regulated them to have no purpose on the battlefield.

Seems like a huge oversight.

Yeah. Chosen without a Rhino will die. Even if they do not sit in it, it can be used as a shield. Without one they will be Battle Cannon equivalent'd or just small arms fire'd to death.

Infiltrating into terrain. It's not shabby.

They fixed some of the problems in Codex: Inquisition quite quickly.

Hopefully if it was an oversight they'll get it fixed.

They better infiltrate into some LOS blocking terrain or they will just Infiltrate themselves into rapid fire range to die even faster.

Chosen with ATSKNF is at least pretty cool...

I won't hate on the added ATSKNF, if your going to run them alone or in multiple squads, having them not run away at a critical moment can definitely come in handy.

However, I don't think that ATSKNF was the rule they needed more than anything either, they have access to higher LD, a fearless banner, and many of the HQ slots that could run with them are also fearless.

So is it helpful since they didn't have to pay any points for it? Yeah it sure is!

But like someone already said, you lose a much needed dedicated transport to get them safely to their destination, so its added risk when you could have made them fearless, thrown them in a rhino with a dozer, and moved 18" while hugging terrain to keep them alive.

Instead of looking at the Chosen (which are on the fence for me), I think Cypher bears taking a look at alone. Nothing says you can't stick him in a Land Raider with a Terminator squad. He also has a plethora of USRs, of which I don't recall which he grants to his unit.

Assuming you get him into range, his ability to double tap both pistols is nice. At 12" you're rapid firing a bolter and a plasma gun (that doesn't get hot), at BS10. On the charge, 3 bolter stat close combat attacks and 2 better-than-poweraxe attacks at WS7 I8. Not shabby at all. Also, he has the potential to give you D3 VPs in every game, only at the risk of giving VPs if you play against DAs. I'm bummed about the lack of Artificer Armour and an invul save though.

 Enigwolf wrote:
Instead of looking at the Chosen (which are on the fence for me), I think Cypher bears taking a look at alone. Nothing says you can't stick him in a Land Raider with a Terminator squad. He also has a plethora of USRs, of which I don't recall which he grants to his unit.

Assuming you get him into range, his ability to double tap both pistols is nice. At 12" you're rapid firing a bolter and a plasma gun (that doesn't get hot), at BS10. On the charge, 3 bolter stat close combat attacks and 2 better-than-poweraxe attacks at WS7 I8. Not shabby at all. Also, he has the potential to give you D3 VPs in every game, only at the risk of giving VPs if you play against DAs. I'm bummed about the lack of Artificer Armour and an invul save though.

He bestows hit and run & shrouded, so he would do well in a hit and run MoS squad.

Also how good does infiltrating those chosen do?

Hmmm, are you still able to use him if your Primary is Chaos Daemons and your allies are Chaos Space Marines?

You can take him as a non-mandatory HQ, so yeah, he works with allied CSM as long as you take another HQ.

EDIT: My B. Says he can only be selected as part of a primary detachment, so daemons are out of luck.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Enigwolf wrote:
Instead of looking at the Chosen (which are on the fence for me), I think Cypher bears taking a look at alone. Nothing says you can't stick him in a Land Raider with a Terminator squad. He also has a plethora of USRs, of which I don't recall which he grants to his unit.

Assuming you get him into range, his ability to double tap both pistols is nice. At 12" you're rapid firing a bolter and a plasma gun (that doesn't get hot), at BS10. On the charge, 3 bolter stat close combat attacks and 2 better-than-poweraxe attacks at WS7 I8. Not shabby at all. Also, he has the potential to give you D3 VPs in every game, only at the risk of giving VPs if you play against DAs. I'm bummed about the lack of Artificer Armour and an invul save though.

He bestows hit and run & shrouded, so he would do well in a hit and run MoS squad.

Also how good does infiltrating those chosen do?

I believe he also grants Infiltrate to the squad. Infiltrating 20-man blob of Berzerkers? Or 20-man blob of CSM with BP/CCW? Not too shabby, especially if you have a lot of other target saturation on the table or can hide them behind LOS terrain. Also, ATSKNF to the blob. Why not? I personally am leaning towards an infiltrated Berzerker blob. Do it in terrain, and they get a nice 2++ cover save with ATSKNF (ATSKNF Berzerkers, who would've known? not that it matters, since they're already fearless, but still) and counter-attack (from the Berzerkers) if someone decides to charge you. Berzerkers are vulnerable when closing the distance without a transport, and get shot up easily, but infiltrating with 2++ cover mitigates that pretty well.

That's the reason why I said to ignore the silly Chosen formation. The only bonus is that they use his leadership, get ATSKNF, and Infiltrate, with the caveat that they are near him. He grants all of these to a squad he joins already, since he counts as a non-mandatory HQ choice from the 'dex. Take a stock Chosen squad from the 'dex, attach Cypher, and you can infiltrate a Rhino if you so please. Yay. And you aren't limited by the formation's restrictions either.

I'm going to try building a list around this and Be'lakor, with a theme behind overwhelming target saturation. This ought to be interesting.

Cant infiltrate units by attaching an infiltrating IC because they deploy at different times (same issue as Huron). They can outflank though (as both units are being held in reserve)

 McGibs wrote:
Cant infiltrate units by attaching an infiltrating IC because they deploy at different times (same issue as Huron). They can outflank though (as both units are being held in reserve)

It's a different issue from Huron, as Huron himself doesn't have infiltrate, but I get your point after having re-read the infiltration rules and FAQs. Bummer, I wish it was the way it was in 5th Ed.

2 questions.
Is he an option in inquisition as well?
And can SM armies take the formation?

Yes, Inquisition can have some tea time with Cypher. Basically, any Imperial force can, except DA.

Imagine the trolling levels of SW with Cypher vs DA...



SM cannot take the formation because it's labelled as a CSM formation.... so the Ally Matrix kicks in.

 Vector Strike wrote:
Yes, Inquisition can have some tea time with Cypher. Basically, any Imperial force can, except DA.

Imagine the trolling levels of SW with Cypher vs DA...



SM cannot take the formation because it's labelled as a CSM formation.... so the Ally Matrix kicks in.

Well Cypher is obviously undercover or with renegades, he can't just parade around with his own fallen at that point.

the42up wrote:The rules-
Cypher: yeah is an HQ but does not take up a slot. Can be with ANY imperial force (marines, sisters, and all) except the angels ( :( ) and of course Chaos space marines.

Vector Strike wrote:SM cannot take the formation because it's labelled as a CSM formation.... so the Ally Matrix kicks in.

Somehow these don't match... Can he go w SM and other Imperials or not?

 Brother Payne wrote:
Somehow these don't match... Can he go w SM and other Imperials or not?

There are two separate things: Cypher himself, who can join any Imperial army except DA, and a formation with Cypher and some CSM chosen, which follows the allies matrix for CSM.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Brother Payne wrote:
Somehow these don't match... Can he go w SM and other Imperials or not?

There are two separate things: Cypher himself, who can join any Imperial army except DA, and a formation with Cypher and some CSM chosen, which follows the allies matrix for CSM.

ah cheers.

Awesome.

So when I choose to ignore the rules entirely and play him in mydark angels army, how difficult will it be to drop the anti dark angels rules or alter them slightly to field him?

Part of the balance of the character is how he effects VP's, but those occur with or without Dark Angels on the board.

Are you playing in a tournament? If not, will your friends really care if you throw Cypher in?

It's not like GW will kill your first born if you use him with your DA.

 Kirasu wrote:
You neglected to mention that they are a chosen squad that CANNOT take a dedicated transport.. That basically regulated them to have no purpose on the battlefield.

Seems like a huge oversight.

Given it is explicitly excluded, it's not an oversight.

They also have shrouded.

Nuwisha wrote:
Part of the balance of the character is how he effects VP's, but those occur with or without Dark Angels on the board.

What?
No.


The rules EXPLICITLY says that they VP rules only trigger when both HIM and a DARK ANGEL is on the board, and the way they are written makes it be a very, very bad thing if they are on the same side.

Could Cypher be the warlord in a C:SM army?