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Is there a way to get some sort of feedback if we submit a report? just something to confirm to us that it was sent? Maybe a pop up or screen that says something along the line of 'Your report has been sent. Thank you"? I know that all reports are looked into but dont want to double click or something and send doubles.

The reason i ask is because as members, we are supposed to submit a report if we see a rule being broken but dont want to end up accidentally sending more than is needed.

You won't get hit for spamming the report function if you are genuinely reporting. Trust me, I should know. I'm a prolific reporter.

If you have a question about something you did, feel free to PM a mod. They don't comment on administrative action for other members though.

I dont report often and when I do it is because the rule breaking is so blatant that no one could possibly miss it or deny it. Yet, I see the same thing happening over and over.
I dont want to know the details of what has been done. I'm just talking something simple like "report sent, thank you'.

Something to let us who follow the rules, treat others with respect and dignity being courteous and polite and generally doing everything correct know that by being a Good Samaritan we are doing the right thing.

Every time you hit the button, you are doing the right thing!

Some of the reports sent in (I think they went through but I'm not sure) are for the same person. Without the feedback to let me know if the reports were successfully sent, I dont know if they were received to be reviewed.

 EVIL INC wrote:
There is also the matter of reporting someone who is breaking the rules and it being "ok" because of who it is. We as normal members might not know that that person is allowed to do it and consider us as "spamming te report box". This would let us know about that so that we dont eventually get in trouble ourselves for reporting that person.

No one is above the rules (except maybe Yakface and I doubt that's who you're talking about). Keep reporting. Just because you don't see the action doesn't mean it isn't happening.

 EVIL INC wrote:
Is there a way to get some sort of feedback if we submit a report? something to let us know it was received and looked into?

We look at every single user alert.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 EVIL INC wrote:
I'm just talking something simple like "Appropriate action has been taken, thank you" or 'No action deemed necessary, thank you or even "

Never gonna happen. The staff have a strict policy of only discussing moderation with each other and the poster in question.

The user alert function is to allow posters to bring an issue to the moderators' attention. Mods then decide if any rules have been broken and what if any action is necessary.

If you receive moderator warnings, it is because you have broken the rules. Ignoringmoderator warning is a form of rule breaking. If you continue in the same way that got you a warning to begin with, your account will eventually be suspended for an escalating amount of time up to indefinitely.

Thanx. makes me glad that I follow the rules.

 EVIL INC wrote:
makes me glad that I follow the rules.

Please note that what I actually posted was "If you receive moderator warnings, it is because you have broken the rules." I did not comment on whether you or anyone else is specifically following or breaking the rules.

Indeed, the best bet is for people to just read the rules. There is a a page where they are laid out and it is not hard to follow them. Personally, I have read them and have had no trouble following them. if everyone did, there would be no reason for the report button in the first place.

In the interest of being clear:

- this site has three generalized rules: be polite, stay on-topic, and no spam

- the moderators translate these general rules into instructions to posters in specific cases

- any poster can alert the moderators to posts they think break the rules

- the moderators review every such alert and will determine whether a rule has been broken and what kind of response is appropriate

- the response, if taken, is one of two things: a warning or a (temporary or indefinite) suspension

- the staff only discusses moderation of a user with that user

EVIL INC, your posts ITT make me think you are unclear about who determines whether a rule has been broken and, if so, what should be done about it. It's not up to the poster alerting the moderators. And it's not up to the poster who receives a warning or suspension. It is only up to the staff.

There is a very simple way to know if you are following the rules of this site: ask yourself whether you have been received a message warning you to change your posting behavior. If so, then you have broken the rules and if you do not follow the moderators' advice in changing your behavior you will still be breaking the rules. If the staff sees you are ignoring instructions, we have no other choice but to suspend your account temporarily.

The period of the suspension escalates until it becomes indefinite. An indefinite suspension is the result of the staff deciding a poster either cannot or will not follow the rules. This is always unfortunate because this site is about having fun talking about toy soldiers. Given that it is such a light-hearted topic, one would think it should be easy to be polite, stay on-topic, and avoid posting spam.

Sadly, whether because of the anonymity afforded by the internet or whatever else, people sometimes have trouble sticking to even these simple points and following moderator instructions meant to get them "back on the rails." But following the rules, including following moderator instructions, is the condition for participation in this community.

I was under the imprssion that the admins and thier chosen representatives decide what is breaking or not breaking the rules. Am I wrong in assuming this? They are self explanatory.
Of course, the majority of us members who make the time to read the rules and always post in the most polite and courteous fashion treating each and every other member with dignity and respect, stay on toic and refuse to spam also wish for others to follow our example. While we do not have the 'decision making or power to decide what the rulings on the reports are, we have enough of an understanding to know what breaks them in "our" eyes and send a report in.

 EVIL INC wrote:
I was under the imprssion that the admins and thier chosen representatives decide what is breaking or not breaking the rules. Am I wrong in assuming this? They are self explanatory.

If by 'chosen representatives' you mean mods, then you are correct, as Manchu said above
"- the moderators review every such alert and will determine whether a rule has been broken and what kind of response is appropriate"

While we do not have the 'decision making or power to decide what the rulings on the reports are, we have enough of an understanding to know what breaks them in "our" eyes and send a report in.

Just because you think a rule is broken doesn't mean it is though. That's what he's saying.

If we are not trusted enough to have a grasp of the rules, then we should not be trusted with the ability to report what "we" see as them being broken.

You may be correct that a rule has been broken but that doesn't mean that you see the results. The member may be warned, suspended or banned but you would never know.

a suspension out of the blue for abusing the report system.

Mod correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't imagine anyone has ever gotten a suspension for this. You'd have to be a giant dick about it. If you are honestly reporting (and I report a lot of things, chances are a lot more than you), the mods never have a problem.

Had they been told not to report that particuler perso or that particuler behavior, they would have known not to report it.

There's no such thing as a person immune to reporting or that shouldn't be reported on. If you see a mod breaking a rule, report them. Everyone follows the rules.

To avoid this hapening, I'll just continue with my own good behavior and not bother reporting things "I' see as breaking of the rules.

You're missing the point. Manchu didn't say to stop reporting. He just said that you won't see the results or be told what happened and that it isn't your call whether a rule is broken or not.

If you see rules violations, report them. It is the mod's job to take it from there.

 pretre wrote:

If by 'chosen representatives' you mean mods, then you are correct, as Manchu said above
"- the moderators review every such alert and will determine whether a rule has been broken and what kind of response is appropriate"
yes, I mean the admins and mods


Just because you think a rule is broken doesn't mean it is though. That's what he's saying.
thats my point if we are only allowed to report rules that have been broken or we are breaking the rules ourselves for making a "fake report", how are we to make the decision of if the rules have been broken if we are not allowed to make the report? Going by that, if we report it and it is deemed true, action may or not be taken. if we make the report and it is deemed "not valid", then we are deemed to have broken the rules. Seems like a heck of a gamble. One I'm not willing to make.

You may be correct that a rule has been broken but that doesn't mean that you see the results. The member may be warned, suspended or banned but you would never know.
true and have no problem with that. I wouldnt want to know even if they could tell us because it isnt any of my business. i was just asking so I wold have a confirmation that it was sent..

Mod correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't imagine anyone has ever gotten a suspension for this. You'd have to be a giant dick about it. If you are honestly reporting (and I report a lot of things, chances are a lot more than you), the mods never have a problem.
Every report I have ever sent in was in my eyes a valid breaking of the rules (some of them not only breaking the rules but also puting them in a pile and crapping on them in my view) but again, that was only me honestly sending in reports of what I considered real rulebreaking and I am not in a position to make that ruling. to be honest, i wouldnt want that responsibility. i have been mods and admins on a lot of different forums over the last 15 years and can tell you its all a headache. A headache, i respect anyone for taking onto thier shoulders.

There's no such thing as a person immune to reporting or that shouldn't be reported on. If you see a mod breaking a rule, report them. Everyone follows the rules.
My thoughts exactly

You're missing the point. Manchu didn't say to stop reporting. He just said that you won't see the results or be told what happened and that it isn't your call whether a rule is broken or not.
... not in this thread.

If you see rules violations, report them. It is the mod's job to take it from there.
Thats where we go back to the catch 22. I'll just play it safe and keep it myself when I see wht I consider violations. lo
l

 EVIL INC wrote:
thats my point if we are only allowed to report rules that have been broken or we are breaking the rules ourselves for making a "fake report", how are we to make the decision of if the rules have been broken if we are not allowed to make the report? Going by that, if we report it and it is deemed true, action may or not be taken. if we make the report and it is deemed "not valid", then we are deemed to have broken the rules. Seems like a heck of a gamble. One I'm not willing to make.

As far as I know, there isn't really such a thing as a fake report. Reporting and having no action taken is not a violation of the rules (the underlined part above). There is no gamble. Where in what Manchu said did he said you broke a rule by reporting and not having it acted upon?

... thats why i said I would be watching a few people.

But that's not really your job. Just report when you need to and leave it at that.

...I was told not to send in any more reports. just not in this thread.

I still find that hard to believe but that's between you and whoever told you not to do it.

I'll just play it safe and keep it myself when I see wht I consider violations. lo

It's up to you but I find that unacceptable. It is incumbent on the populace at large to report wrongdoing when they see it. The mods then take it from there.

 EVIL INC wrote:
If we are not trusted enough to have a grasp of the rules, then we should not be trusted with the ability to report what "we" see as them being broken. That was the purpose of me asking for some sort of feedback. Even though all reports may be looked at, how are we to know?

The point of alerting the mods to a post you believe is breaking the rules is not to have your belief validated or invalidated. It's a helpful way of allowing moderators to address things they otherwise might not come across.

Regarding abuse of the alert system, that seems to happen from time to time. The usual scenario is that someone gets a warning from a moderator while having an argument with other posters and they decide to alert the mods to all of those other poster's comments in the argument to make sure "they also get punished" or something. The thing to keep in mind is that you're only responsible for your own actions or, put it another way, you are entirely responsible for your own actions. "He was rude to me first" is not an excuse, for example.

As I mentioned, the true purpose of the alert button is to address the reality that the moderators do not read every post in every thread on this site and therefore we appreciate every poster's help bringing inappropriate posts to our attention. Whether we agree with the poster who pushes alert or not is not the issue. We're still grateful for the help even when we disagree.

 pretre wrote:

As far as I know, there isn't really such a thing as a fake report. Reporting and having no action taken is not a violation of the rules (the underlined part above). There is no gamble. Where in what Manchu said did he said you broke a rule by reporting and not having it acted upon?
this was actually in a Pm and I dont think manchu was the one who told me.

But that's not really your job. Just report when you need to and leave it at that.
You misunderstood what I was getting at. i didnt mean "watching" for looking for reasons to report someone. I meant it as in watching to see how long it would take their actions to catch up with them. Think of it as watching for karma to strike. Silently watching to see if someone disappears for a time should be "legal"

I still find that hard to believe but that's between you and whoever told you not to do it.
True. That was why I started the thread.

It's up to you but I find that unacceptable. It is incumbent on the populace at large to report wrongdoing when they see it. The mods then take it from there.
I agree with you 100% on this.I just feel that we should be able to send in honest reports that our 'gut" tells us should be sent without having to worry about breaking the rules in doing so.

Manchu wrote:

The point of alerting the mods to a post you believe is breaking the rules is not to have your belief validated or invalidated. It's a helpful way of allowing moderators to address things they otherwise might not come across.
This is true. When I send a report, i'm not looking for validation, I'm doing it because I feel it is the right thing to do as a contributing and conscientious member of the community. My disability also forces me to focus on something that is 'not right" and it not leave my mind. Tat is why i always make a point to follow the rules and why I feel that reporting what i see a a problem is a good thing. without a confirmation tha te report was sent, I dont know if it "went through' or if I accidentally clicked somewhere else or too fast and not sent it or double sent it.

Regarding abuse of the alert system, that seems to happen from time to time. The usual scenario is that someone gets a warning from a moderator while having an argument with other posters and they decide to alert the mods to all of those other poster's comments in the argument to make sure "they also get punished" or something. The thing to keep in mind is that you're only responsible for your own actions or, put it another way, you are entirely responsible for your own actions. "He was rude to me first" is not an excuse, for example.
I think this may be the issue here. i think your assumptions of the reasoning for the "secondary" report is off though. i was personally attacked, called names, insulted and i was singled out for this in particular because the ones doing it totally ignored anyone else who had the same view as myself or agreed with me. when I came back with telling them to stop and stay on topic, i was reported as being rude. I sent reports in on the previous attacks that I had previously let slide towards me at that point in time, NOT as a form of retaliation but to give you a view of the bigger picture.I may have snapped and made an off topic post by asking them to stop and if that was a grievous enough error to warrant a warning, so be it. My view doesnt count in that decision. The bigger picture i was pointing out was a pattern of behavior that was being practiced that led to that. Without addressing that pattern or at least noting it can lead to it bing repeated over and over again. it could go on for years and not be addressed without a form of it being sen. As you yourself said, you cant read every post in every thread. if somene sends a report, you look at that post and simply not see the bigger picture.
I dont want anyone else to "get in trouble", I want people to get along and for those behaviors to stop.
I also realize that different mods address different reports.this combined with the above can further diffuse the information needed to see the bigger picture.
I see it much as children on a playground. Having been a mod and admin in other forums over the yeas, i know you can relate to this visual image lol) A group of kids will gang up on another who is smaller or weaker, or disabled or who is simply the "wierd kid because his mom dresses him funny", they will pick and agitate and torment the kid until one day in class, he swats at the hand that is reaching from behind flicking his ears. The kid whose fingers got swatted cries and tells the teacher and as that is all the teacher is aware of, the victim gets punished. This is compounded by the kids going into seperate classes all day under different teachers (mods) and the only ones who see the big picture are the victim and his tormenters.
THAT is why I followed up with reports to show that so it could be addressed, not to get anyone in trouble. After all, if they do it to me until, I get suspended, who will be the next one to be the target?

As I mentioned, the true purpose of the alert button is to address the reality that the moderators do not read every post in every thread on this site and therefore we appreciate every poster's help bring inappropriate posts to our attention. Whether we agree with the poster who pushes alert or not is not the issue. We're still grateful for the help even when we disagree
As i said, I only send in reports when I see what I feel are actual breakings of the rules. I do it to try to help you mods see things that you might otherwise miss. this inces patterns..
.

if somene sends a report, you look at that post and simply not see the bigger picture

While we mods do indeed spend our time here on a voluntary basis like you or any other poster, we do actually take context into account when deciding whether to act and what action is most appropriate.

A group of kids will gang up on another who is smaller or weaker, or disabled or who is simply the wierd kid

There are certainly a lot of ways one could rationalize a situation. All that is important for our purposes, however, is that as/when you get a warning from a moderator you follow those instructions.

Meanwhile, this kind of thinking is totally wrong:

if they do it to me until, I get suspended

People being rude to you will never get you suspended. What will get you suspended is if you break the rules when you respond. As mentioned above "he did it first" doesn't cut it around here.

No one is using the 'he did it first" as an excuse. If I somehow broke a rule, than so be it.
likewise, regardless of the timing of a report' if the other party broke the rules, they broke the rules or the report would not have been sent..
I do and have always taken responsibility for my own actions. As I said, I just wanted to make you guys aware of the bigger picture if for no other reason, the mods would be aware enough to research it the next time it happens. or by now the 4th or 5th time.

Hey Evil,

Your input has been noted, but your problem is you want to grade your own paper and assign importance and insight marks to your own thoughts and ideas. You have been answered multiple times now by multiple Mods and you seem to like to pick and choose what information you take on-board and what you disregard. You say you are conscientiously using the alert system but from what I can see you are quite invested in the result and feel you deserve a degree of additional information and consultation on the decisions made after the alert is made. That is where, to me, it crosses the line from conscientious reporting to an attempt at exercising power over the staff and or other users. The 'right thing to do', is to use the alert system, and then to trust and respect the people being alerted to do the job they have been entrusted with as their sole responsibility.

'I do and have always taken responsibility for my own actions' is something that others should determine, in the case of this site that conclusion should be reached by the people actually in charge of determining if a member is doing so. Autonomously deciding how your own behaviour is interpreted by others (regardless of input from the people who are actually in charge of reaching that decision in context of this site) as status quo is a quick and extremely effective way to frustrate yourself.

The rules are simple. The people in charge of interpreting and administering them is crystal clear. If you want to participate in trying to help by alerting us if you feel there is actionable infractions taking place, then by all means do so. If you are determined that the result of your report be exactly as you want it to be then don't bother, you'll just stress yourself.

Sorry to be blunt but I have less patience than some of my colleagues. We do our best but our practices and policies are the result of a lot of experience, and like anything in this world, they can't please everyone. If they rub you the wrong way so badly then there are other places online that may suit you better. It isn't an insult, it's just best for everyone that a member actually like the place they are voluntarily a member of. And the staff and rules are Dakka every bit as much as the posters.

You make it clear you have expectations of the staff and how this place should be run. What you don't seem to be clear on is it is the members who make a commitment to the site when they sign up, not the other way around. If you want to participate it has to be on Dakka's terms.

Thanks for reading.

Uh, when we sign up as members we click on an "agreement". That agreement says that what the admins say goes. End of story.
There is a difference between being blunt and outright rud and makeing insults to inteilligence by 'grading own papers and such. Those of us who suffer from disabilities take such insults personally I actually graduated school back in the 80s and have gotten a degree (in teaching no less lol). Bein told i am stupid and not yet out of high school is rather rude without having any background information on me. I'm already being called a "slow" and worse which is why I sent in the reports in the first place.
As this section of the forum is about nuts and bolts and issues with the site, I had thought that this might be a safe place to discuss an issue that I was having. how it is addressed, solved or ignored is not up to me and i fully understand that. i also simply do not want to know the details of what goes on behind the scenes. First off because it is none of my bsiness and secondly, because having been in the position of the mods and admins before, I know it is a headache and I dont want to give them any more hassles than they already have.
The only thing i was doing was asking for help with an issue, explaining my reasoning as my motives were assumed to be something other than they were.

Or you can accept that they answered your question and stop looking for some moral high ground?

Is there a way to get some sort of feedback if we submit a report? something to let us know it was received and looked into?

They said no to the first, and no to the second, but assured you that all reports are taken seriously and looked into, with the mod team taking action as necessary. Accept that they answered your questions and continue reporting as necessary. Stop with the whole "I'll just suffer silently" thing when it is completely baseless with regards to their comments.

You asked a question, they answered it. Nuts and Bolts served its purpose. Yet you keep wanting some kind of pat on the head for being an amazing watchdog/reassurance that you aren't doing anything wrong. And you got that reassurance, pretre and Manchu have said that you won't get in trouble for reporting legitimate things, and if you are reporting too much you'll get told as such, you won't get an immediate ban or anything. So just relax.

There is no "moral high ground". They told me they viewed the reports and that was good enough for me. i had eplained the reasoning behind my sending in the report as it was incorrectly assumed it was out of vengeance instead of just trying to do the right thing for the community at large.
the mods and admins got my permission to enforce the rule as required by law when I (or any other member click on the agreement button to join the site. Any further permission is not required as we have already given it) clicked the agreement button upon joining.
The mods are representatives of the admins of the ite and have carte blanche in enforcement of the rules. I know this from being a mod myself and from giving to mods on sites i was admin. there is no question there.
The question was posted out of altruism although I am sure there are some who will incorrectly say otherwise-or pretend that there is some sort of master plan conspiracy about riding horses lol..
I will just let the matter drop as the direct question the thread was started for was answered. No confirmation of whether or not a report was sent. Thank you for the time taken in answering.

Edit: Ahh, I see that you added it in now. thank you. that will indeed be helpful and cut down on double reports or us thinking it went through when it did not.

Okay, Evil, we may have reached a point where any further discussion here gets tangled up and becomes impossible to navigate.

What we need to know now is:

1) Do you feel that your first query was suitably answered? If not, please try and explain why as best you can.
2) Did you have any further queries? If so, can you please ask them as separate questions so that they are not misinterpreted as being parts of other questions, and so that answers can be given clearly.

Not sure who said anything about high school. Anyways.

You can pretend that this thread was 'out of the blue' but some of us know differently. So please, enough with this. You weren't just interested in whether reports were seen. You heavily inferred that the rules were not applied, and that some users get a free pass and you would be 'watching'. I am sure there would be nothing personal on your behalf involved in this either.

Your questions have been answered. You are not the first nor the last to ride in on this particular horse. It's nothing new. You are welcome to stay, subject to the rules as we see them. You are welcome to leave too if you don't like the way things are run. There isn't much more to say than that.

Oh, except this perhaps: Make no mistake. Mods are agents of this site and representatives of the admins when it comes to enforcing the rules and handing out warnings, suspensions and bans. You can make an attempt at rules lawyering all you want that the agreement doesn't include us (lol) , but you are 100% subject to our judgements and actions whether you like it or not. Your consent is not required.

I highly, highly suggest that you weigh anything further on this subject extremely carefully, lest I start to feel it is spam, since the topic has been very addressed and you are wandering into territory designed solely to instigate a conflict.

 MajorTom11 wrote:
You are not the first nor the last to ride in on this particular horse.

That is a delightful turn of phrase, and I shall try to work it into my vernacular as soon as possible.

Just don't try and shoot your way out of town - we like you too much for that!

Is this horse like the town bicycle and everybody gets a turn riding it?

Dont like horses. Dont trust any animal bigger than myself. Dont recall ever riding any but led a pony while my little sisters rode on it. Dont know why horses are even relevant. I cant believe that no one ever asked for that before. Thanx for adding it in. It does make sending a report in a lot easier to have that confirmation come up.
Dont worry, i'm not going to try to shoot my way out of town. Good to feel loved..