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When I check out the models on the PP website, I get a bit confused. I've read through Dakka's stickied intro article for this game, but I still have a few questions.

1) Why are some models, usually warcasters and warlocks, presented in multiple different versions with slightly different names? For instance, what's the difference between Iron Lich Asphyxious, Asphyxious the Hellbringer & Vociferon, and Lich Lord Asphyxious?

2) When some models are labeled "epic" or whatever, does that limit their use to a certain type of game, like how if you want to play Apocalypse in 40k you have to find a friend who also wants to play Apoc and use Apoc units?

3) Is there a way to tell which models are just older and which ones have been re-released in better versions?

4) Can colossals and gargantuans and battle wagons (or whatever they're called) be used in normal games, or are those also "apocalypse-like" regarding their inclusion?

5) How many models does a 15 point game have, generally?

Ok for one and 2 its because PP are advancing the story bit by bit bit with each new release. This means the characters grow and develop bit by bit. After life changing moments they tend to get an 'epic' version (and often a promotion, e.g. captain haley becomes major haley). These versions are useable in any sized game, and balanced just as well as their prime, or basic, version.

They often see a change in style too, for example Stryker's first version is very much a buff hander outer/support caster, while his epic version is a very good assassination caster. They aren't forced into those roles, but they are common roles to find them in.

For 3 I'm not quite sure, but the closer the unit is to full sized (usually 10, including attachments sometimes), and if they are plastic, they are more likely to be new.

For 4, they are balanced for small games and large. So no worries there. The PP version of apocalypse is called unbound and has no new units, just formations of existing ones

For 5, I normally have one or two jacks and a unit (and maybe a solo), so between 8 infantry and 2 jacks, and 12 infantry and 2 jacks. But other armies may be able to get more, but I don't have too much experience with them

 Tangent wrote:
When I check out the models on the PP website, I get a bit confused. I've read through Dakka's stickied intro article for this game, but I still have a few questions.

1) Why are some models, usually warcasters and warlocks, presented in multiple different versions with slightly different names? For instance, what's the difference between Iron Lich Asphyxious, Asphyxious the Hellbringer & Vociferon, and Lich Lord Asphyxious?

2) When some models are labeled "epic" or whatever, does that limit their use to a certain type of game, like how if you want to play Apocalypse in 40k you have to find a friend who also wants to play Apoc and use Apoc units?

3) Is there a way to tell which models are just older and which ones have been re-released in better versions?

4) Can colossals and gargantuans and battle wagons (or whatever they're called) be used in normal games, or are those also "apocalypse-like" regarding their inclusion?

5) How many models does a 15 point game have, generally?

1) There is variant for the same model. It is a little bit like seeing a Pokemon evolve over time, (sorry for the bad example). It does'nt mean a Epic Warcaster/Warlock is better than the first one, it is simply different according to his evolution in the timeline of Warmachine. It is a good way to use a warcaster figurine for different kind of gameplay. (It is not necessary that you use the "Epic" figurine to play the Epic Warcaster, but it is preferable). There spells, feat (one use only special effect per game), stats have change a little bit and usually they have the same equipment, but it can be different too.

2) and 4) No, you can use all your figurines at the same time in to the small scale game to a big one. There is no "Apocalypse" type of game, it's all about synergy between your troops, caster and Warjacks. At the end this synergy is more important than the big weapon you bring on the table. If bringing a Collosal is useful to your synergy than go ahead, if not it might disadvantage you more than helping you at some point. Every models in Privateer Press can be kill, it's not because you spend hundred of $$$ in your miniature that make them necessary more powerful. (little arrow to GW!) It's all about creating combination of bonus and debuffing and blocking your ennemy to create a powerful momentul to kill units. Even a Collosal, Battle Wagon, Epic etc, etc. can be kill if you are not careful enought.

3) Go on PrivateerPress.com under the Warmachine/Horde section on the left. Go on Gallery, than click the faction you want and click the model you want to see. It open a window with the date of release, the cost, the unit per box, if it's metal of plastic, etc, etc.

Here an example: http://privateerpress.com/warmachine/gallery/cygnar/warcasters/artificer-general-nemo

You simply have to be careful, because sometime they recast older metal model in plastic. If so, they usually mention a SPECIAL NOTE: in read mentionning it is the same unit than X model in metal. But most of the time now, PP simply redesign new models with finer detail in plastic.

5) The best example I can give you are the Battle Box which contain a Warcaster and some basic Warjacks. They usually contain more or less between 10-14pts. Usually a "trooper" is about a point per model, but there is some restriction on the way units are build. You don't buy an extra unit like you want like you add one or more Space Marine to your Squad. You have to buy them per block. A full unit is usually 10 models and often they offer the choise of a half unit for about a little more than half the point cost. So you can only have a full unit or the half unit, not 2-3 extra models.

 Tangent wrote:
When I check out the models on the PP website, I get a bit confused. I've read through Dakka's stickied intro article for this game, but I still have a few questions.
?

First up, welcome to the iron kingdoms. Don't forget to pick up the complimentary goggles and warpwolf plushie!

 Tangent wrote:

1) Why are some models, usually warcasters and warlocks, presented in multiple different versions with slightly different names? For instance, what's the difference between Iron Lich Asphyxious, Asphyxious the Hellbringer & Vociferon, and Lich Lord Asphyxious?

It's to do with the story. They're all technically table top versions of the same guy in the fluff, but there in game versions of him at different points in the narrative. Look at vlad - the original incarnation was him being a great prince of khador, the second occurred after he almost died saving a whole bunch of people from cryx, whereupon the old witch took him, healed him, helped him reforge his weapons and make him her champion. His newest version (on horse) is after khadors conquest of Llael, and the reunification of the province of umbrey whose crown was traditionally held by his family and which he has since reclaimed.

 Tangent wrote:
Lich Lord Asphyxious?

2) When some models are labeled "epic" or whatever, does that limit their use to a certain type of game, like how if you want to play Apocalypse in 40k you have to find a friend who also wants to play Apoc and use Apoc units?

Nope.

Back in mk1, 'epic' warcasters could only be used in games of a certain size, or greater. 'Epic' is a term used merely to denote that character at a different point in the story it their original incarnation. As an aside, The reasons for characters 'going epic' are described in the fluff and are a constant discussion point. (For example, look at the circle warlock kromac. In the fluff, he had recently been commanded to take the axe rathrok from the troll warlock madrak ironhide in order to become the champion of the apocalypse. Assuming he ever gets this, that'll be his que to 'level up', 'go epic' and for pp to release a new version of 'kromac the destroyer', or something, instead of kromac the ravenous).
However With mk2(current edition), pp changed their design ethos to be one of 'you should be able to play any character, at any points level, without any tedious terms and conditions, or opponents consent. You do t need your friends permission, slap them down on the table and gave a go. If epic vlad tickles your fancy, then take him as your first caster and no one will bat an eyelid.

 Tangent wrote:

3) Is there a way to tell which models are just older and which ones have been re-released in better versions?

Not sure. Generally, the older ones are referred to as 'classic' models.

 Tangent wrote:

4) Can colossals and gargantuans and battle wagons (or whatever they're called) be used in normal games, or are those also "apocalypse-like" regarding their inclusion?

There is no apocalypse. If you've got the points, then you can put them on the board.

 Tangent wrote:


5) How many models does a 15 point game have, generally?

From two to thirty two. There is on 'one way' to make a list. I could take anything from a caster and a colossal, to a caster, jack and three full squads of mechanithralls at 15pts. So there is no real 'good and proper' answer to this question, as there are no grad and fast ironclad laws did list writing.

 Tangent wrote:
When I check out the models on the PP website, I get a bit confused. I've read through Dakka's stickied intro article for this game, but I still have a few questions.

1) Why are some models, usually warcasters and warlocks, presented in multiple different versions with slightly different names? For instance, what's the difference between Iron Lich Asphyxious, Asphyxious the Hellbringer & Vociferon, and Lich Lord Asphyxious?

2) When some models are labeled "epic" or whatever, does that limit their use to a certain type of game, like how if you want to play Apocalypse in 40k you have to find a friend who also wants to play Apoc and use Apoc units?

3) Is there a way to tell which models are just older and which ones have been re-released in better versions?

4) Can colossals and gargantuans and battle wagons (or whatever they're called) be used in normal games, or are those also "apocalypse-like" regarding their inclusion?

5) How many models does a 15 point game have, generally?

1) Epic casters are from the newer fluff in the Iron Kingdoms. Normal Vlad is when he is Prince of Umbrey, eVlad is when he has been beaten half to death and spends a few months chilling with the Old Witch.

2) Nope, you can have epic casters in 15 point games and normal casters in 200 point games.

3) Plastic ones tend to be newer, but some of the classic models look cool too.

4) Sure thing, you can bring a Colossal to a 15 point match if you can fit it in.

5) Depending on whether it is a Jack heavy list or one full of infantry, it varies immensely.

Excellent thanks a ton, guys.

1) What's the most expensive single model in the game, points-wise?

2) Is there anything really bad in the game? Meaning, are there choices that are simply worse than others? Or is the game built more around synergy in the sense that every model is good as long as you take other models that work well together?

3) Where are all the rules for individual models located? Let's say I want to play Cryx. Are the stats and rules for Cryx models in the Mk2 main rulebook? Or is it the Cryx faction book?

4) Any rumors of PP releasing a new edition any time soon?

1) A colossal/gargantuan (don't have the books in front of me. They range from 17-20 if memory serves).

2) More or less. There are models that require a lot more support than others, and some that work far better and become commonplace, but I've yet to find a model that is completely useless.

3). WarRoom (android/iphone/etc App). It has all the cards and constantly updates (even with errata). You can purchase singular factions or the entire game for a discount.

4) Some people talk about it often, but nothing tangible. It's a safe bet we'll have MK II for a long time to come.

I just downloaded WarRoom for my new tablet. It is pretty cool, especially since I picked up a cygnar battle box + eHaley from someone and it had all the mk1 cards. Now I can look at their new mk2 cards and I can finally play.

P.S. I am still new to the game. I have only had a demo match, and own the above 5 figures. I am definitely liking Cygnar though.

 Tangent wrote:
Excellent thanks a ton, guys.
3) Where are all the rules for individual models located? Let's say I want to play Cryx. Are the stats and rules for Cryx models in the Mk2 main rulebook? Or is it the Cryx faction book?

The rules are located on individual card when you purchase the model. It is not necessary (but highly recommanded) to purchase the faction book. The only main thing in the book there is couple extra things like "Tier" that give small bonus to warcaster if you play certain type of units with certain type of Warcaster. (Mostly deployement bonus like +1" for the deployment zone or -1pts for X units, etc). Otherwise, the book give a good overview of every units and the fluff of the faction. It can be handy to have your book when you broke a card (if that really happend...). Like I said, it is not a necessity, you can play without it but it is a good reference to help you choose a good synergy throught your units and Warcasters.

So, the rules for the models are supplied on cards that come with the models. The rules for the game as a whole are in the Mk2 rulebooks. And then the faction books give you fluff and... what else, again?

The War Room app has got a lot of negative reviews on the Google Play store. :( I downloaded it anyway, so we'll see how it goes. Anyone know if single purchases on the app can be used on multiple devices? Like, I buy it on my smartphone, can I use it on my tablet without having to buy again?

 Tangent wrote:
So, the rules for the models are supplied on cards that come with the models. The rules for the game as a whole are in the Mk2 rulebooks. And then the faction books give you fluff and... what else, again?

Faction books were released to consolidate all the models released in MkI into a single place and have a couple extra new things at the time, mainly. They contain mostly Fiction and book entries, a few painting guides and Themed Forces for the warcasters or warlocks listed in the book (optional lists for bonuses, usually fluffy more than crunchy ones). PP also releases semi-regular anthology books. These will have 6-8 (in MkII so far) new entries per Faction of that game (Warmachine/Hordes), such as a new warcaster, new units or something, along with more painting guides and fiction. For MkII PP has released two anthologies per gameline now and a third Warmachine one is due out this March. Rules for new sorts of models are included in these books.

 Tangent wrote:
The War Room app has got a lot of negative reviews on the Google Play store. :( I downloaded it anyway, so we'll see how it goes. Anyone know if single purchases on the app can be used on multiple devices? Like, I buy it on my smartphone, can I use it on my tablet without having to buy again?

You can have up to three devices associated with your War Room account at a time. You can always to its website and disassociate your devices if you need to free-up slots. So for instance right now it is on both my cell phone and my tablet. You can also sync lists to their servers, but I don't really use that.

Much of the negative reviews are because when the program first released it was buggy as hell and PP kind of dropped a bit of a PR ball when they did not allow a list building and verification program called iBodger to stick around. It has since fixed a lot of its stability and speed issues, but is still somewhat buggy and not as good a list builder. It is however the best place to get all the rules for everything in one spot ($60 USD for the full decks is way cheaper than buying all the sourcebooks). It is also on tablets not a bad alternative to cards I find, though is gak to use that way on a phone. I personally recommend it if you decide to get into the game after buying a corebook, rather than splurging on sourcebooks first. And to get the complete decks since that' sjust handy to have and research.

EDIT: Going a bit back-to-front on answers:

 Tangent wrote:
1) What's the most expensive single model in the game, points-wise?

Colossals and gargantuans range from 18-20pts each. Before them the most expensive single model was the Behemoth warjack in Khador (13pts). Besides that models could be as cheap as one point each to PC 11-12 for some other character stuff. Units can get to about PC 13 I belive with enough stuff added to them.

 Tangent wrote:
2) Is there anything really bad in the game? Meaning, are there choices that are simply worse than others? Or is the game built more around synergy in the sense that every model is good as long as you take other models that work well together?

Most things have the synergy thing you mention. Very few things are irredeemably bad and folks over the years have done good work on taking models thought of as bad and putting them to good use with specific warcasters or warlocks. Most things if you say are bad someone will probably defend it with very few exceptions I think. I have my opinion on things that are indeed bad, but again, listing it is a tad futile most times.

 Tangent wrote:
3) Where are all the rules for individual models located? Let's say I want to play Cryx. Are the stats and rules for Cryx models in the Mk2 main rulebook? Or is it the Cryx faction book?

To expand on earlier, the corebook has about 11 entries per Faction (three warcasters, six warjacks, a solo and five units). The Forces book collects all that was from MkI, and a few new to MkII ones. Every 9-12 months or so there is another anthology for Warmachine or Hordes (they alternate) that introduces 6-8 new models per main Faction, including at least one new warcaster.

 Tangent wrote:
4) Any rumors of PP releasing a new edition any time soon?

Current implications indicate that the devs would rather drink bleach than work on another edition for now.

And stuff.

Tangent wrote:
2) Is there anything really bad in the game? Meaning, are there choices that are simply worse than others? Or is the game built more around synergy in the sense that every model is good as long as you take other models that work well together?

Although there are a few units which are underwhelming, synergy and local meta will have a greater effect on a units usefulness than the units stats.

Tangent wrote:
4) Any rumors of PP releasing a new edition any time soon?

No rumors. Most likely case, PP decides to remove Wrath/Collossals from the game in a few years, and packages the Battle Engines, Ranking Officer and Colossal rules into the main book. But I repeat, no rumors at all.

I haven't heard a peep about a new edition of WM/H. Though some people mention a version 2.1 to incorporate the errata and additional rules from the expansions. But if you really want that then your best bet is to use the warroom app. All the rules get updated there as soon as they are official.

If you haven't already I would also suggest checking out BattleCollege http://battlecollege.wikispaces.com/home

It is far from perfect, but they do have a pretty good rundown of all the models in the game for each faction. In the past I thought their discussion/tactics were kind of lame, but they have been getting much better, especially with the newer stuff.

Also just about every PP faction forum has a really good starter thread and tactics thread that covers most of their stuff.

As for starting, my suggestion is to choose a faction that you like. Get the battlebox and rulebook and play lots of practice games. Once you get a better feel for the game then you can decide if you want to stick to that faction or go try another that might work better. And if you have played tabletop games before like warmachine or 40K and have a "style" you like then people here can probably help guide you.

I hope that helps. And feel free to ask questions here. Most people are pretty good at helping new guys with info. Just take everything we say with a grain of salt. There is no "best" way to play this game so take the info and process it but decide for yourself what works best for you.

 Tangent wrote:
So, the rules for the models are supplied on cards that come with the models. The rules for the game as a whole are in the Mk2 rulebooks. And then the faction books give you fluff and... what else, again?

The War Room app has got a lot of negative reviews on the Google Play store. :( I downloaded it anyway, so we'll see how it goes. Anyone know if single purchases on the app can be used on multiple devices? Like, I buy it on my smartphone, can I use it on my tablet without having to buy again?

Aha! I can field these, despite being new to Warmachine myself.

Any model you buy will come with a card that contains all of its stats and special rules on it. If you're picking up old collections second-hand, check that they're current cards. If not, you can buy a pack of cards separately to convert to Mk II physical cards.

The War Room app has you set up a War Room account with Privateer Press. You can sign into that account from any device. If you buy unit rules on War Room by faction, you'll also get the Mercenary and Minions compatible with that faction, by the way.

* The full-sized Mk II Prime book contains fluff, galleries, and the core game rules as well as unit rules for a basic selection of models from each of the 4 factions at the time, which includes all the models in the factions' various starter boxes at the least, in addition to a few Mercenaries.
* There's a compact edition that comes with the 2-player starter box, as well, that omits the fluff, galleries, and unit rules (but gives the unit rules for all the starter box models in a fold-out sheet) much like GW has been including in their starter boxes in recent editions. Like with the GW equivalents, I'm sure these can be had on eBay if you're not into the 2-player box and like physical copy.
* The faction books for Cryx, Cygnar, Khador, the Protectorate of Menoth, and Mercenaries contain Mk II rules for all the Warmachine models released under Mk I, along with fluff, painting guides, and galleries for their respective empire.
* Convergence of Cyriss and Retribution of Scyrah are factions that were created since the release of Mk II. As such, their faction books contain a bunch of models to get them playable out of the gate.
* Further rulebooks get released on a regular basis, and contain some new units for all factions. This is where your Vengeance, Colossals, and Wrath come in.

So, if you want hard copy of the rules for all models in a single faction, you'd need Mk II Prime, the corresponding faction book, Mercenaries, and 3 multi-faction collections as of now. Now you begin to see where the War Room becomes a great bargain. It doesn't get you the fluff to go with those units, but you can have all of the rules to build lists for your faction at your fingertips for < $10.

There's a second app from PP that allows you to buy digital editions of each of the books. This is, unfortunately, mostly a convenience thing -- do you prefer hard copy or portability? Because the digital editions are full price, and I've not found any way to get physical and digital at a discount deal the way some games publishers do if you buy direct. Like the War Room, PP Digital handles it on an account basis, so you can sign in and download the digital versions on multiple devices.

It's also worth noting that the War Room is pretty handy. You can easily navigate to special rule definitions from the Prime book right from the app, etc. Coupled with the list-building feature and its ability to track damage on the digital cards, and that's easily the best cash I've spent on Warmachine so far.

So I downloaded the WarRoom app and it works just fine on my phone, despite the negative reviews. That being said, I'm a hard-copy kinda guy so I'll probably end up buying the regular rulebooks, too.

A few more questions about the books and cards...

1) Are there any models that come with only their Mk1 card? Meaning, if I buy an older model, is there a chance it will come with outdated rules?

2) How much overlap is there between the faction-specific books and the main rulebook in terms of rules for models? If I buy the Cryx faction book, will it contain the rules for all of the Cryx models that the main rulebook has?

I guess what I'm getting at is... if I get the mini-rulebook from the starter box and a faction book, will I be missing out on any rules, or just fluff?

3) What are the "faction decks" again?

 Tangent wrote:
So I downloaded the WarRoom app and it works just fine on my phone, despite the negative reviews. That being said, I'm a hard-copy kinda guy so I'll probably end up buying the regular rulebooks, too.

A few more questions about the books and cards...

1) Are there any models that come with only their Mk1 card? Meaning, if I buy an older model, is there a chance it will come with outdated rules?

There is always that chance, but realistically, since MK2 has been released for over 2 years now, it will only happen if you buy really old models that stores would have in stock.

But even if that happens, give PP a call and they'll happily send you the MK2 cards for those models free of charge.

 Tangent wrote:

2) How much overlap is there between the faction-specific books and the main rulebook in terms of rules for models? If I buy the Cryx faction book, will it contain the rules for all of the Cryx models that the main rulebook has?

All the models that are in the MK2 main rulebooks will also be present in their respective faction books.

 Tangent wrote:

I guess what I'm getting at is... if I get the mini-rulebook from the starter box and a faction book, will I be missing out on any rules, or just fluff?

You'll be missing the rules for all the models that where released in the new books after the faction book came out (which have been 2 books so far).

 Tangent wrote:

3) What are the "faction decks" again?

Faction Decks were the way that PP found to allow people that had MK1 models to update their rules to MK2 as effortlessly as possible.

They have all the MK2 cards for all the models that were released during MK1.

1) By my understanding, if you buy an old model NiB you can get a new card off PP, but I'm not sure if that'd be through customer service or just bought online from them

2) Yeah the Cryx book will have everything that is in the main rulebook, but it won't have all the cards for models released after that point in time (so the releases in Wrath and Colossals at least

3) They are decks of cards (hard copy) covering similar models to the Faction books, but missing a few compared to them (I think).

4) Don't play Cryx, play Cygnar.

4 is a joke.

There are no restrictions to having large models and characters in smaller games.

I mean, I'm eying up eHaley and a stormwall for 15pt games.

If you are missing a card or parts you go to the PP website and submit a short form to them and they send it to you.

It is free and usually pretty darn quick. I've had missing parts, wrong parts and even the wrong card once. Usually they get something in the mail within a few days. But like any business they go thru busy points that might take a bit longer.

here is the link for those who are curious or need it.
http://mispack.privateerpress.com/

As you can see they only require a minimal amount of info.

 Tangent wrote:
So I downloaded the WarRoom app and it works just fine on my phone, despite the negative reviews. That being said, I'm a hard-copy kinda guy so I'll probably end up buying the regular rulebooks, too.

War Room is neat as a one-place stop for all the rules. I quite like it for brainstorming and it is also great for general proxying and figuring out what you might want in the future. As a fun bonus when books come out, all entries not yet spoiled are in War Room within a couple days. App has it's problems but it has improved quite a bit.

 Tangent wrote:
...

1) Are there any models that come with only their Mk1 card? Meaning, if I buy an older model, is there a chance it will come with outdated rules?

As stated, some models might be old stock with the old card. PP sent new cards to retailers back in 2010 to replace cards of their stock, but some are still there. All models PP had available in MkI have some version available in MkII.

 Tangent wrote:
2) How much overlap is there between the faction-specific books and the main rulebook in terms of rules for models? If I buy the Cryx faction book, will it contain the rules for all of the Cryx models that the main rulebook has?...

The main rulebook has a "sampling" of twelve options from the Faction. For Cryx it's specifically three warcasters, three bonejacks, three helljacks, four units and two solos. The write-ups and illustrations for these are the same as those found in the Forces book for that respecitve Faction.

 Tangent wrote:
... I guess what I'm getting at is... if I get the mini-rulebook from the starter box and a faction book, will I be missing out on any rules, or just fluff?

The only rules missing will be for models released after the Forces of Book, which for Warmachine and therefore Cryx are Wrath, Colossals and the upcoming Vengeance.

 Tangent wrote:
3) What are the "faction decks" again?

As stated, they were a way for people who played MkI to update their old cards. All models released through that edition got a card update and the deck has a consolidated place for them all. Models distributed by PP since 2010 have these cards in them already and so they're in a way a hold-over/transition product, since most models now come with MkII cards.

And stuff.

So the books that were released after the faction-specific books have rules for models that are unique to those books, but the rules for those models are still supplied in card form when you buy that model, right? (Just like every other model.)

In a word, "yes".

Yes is the answer.


However, Warmahordes' fluff is actually mobile and travels along a time line, unlike 40k which has been stuck in M41 999.9995 for the past 25 years.

Each of the new books also has advances in the plot and what is going on now. Which might interest you if you are in to that sort of thing.

Excellent, thanks a ton guys. Time to start buying.