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As it stands right now, I don't plan on buying the beta rules pdf if they're over $5. I don't expect to get my three game playtesting credit either since I didn't fill out the 8 page playtest report on any of the games I did either and I assume they'll use that stipulation to deny it. I'll buy the northern PDF but if they charge more than a nominal amount for the beta then I'd rather just wait to see what shakes out of all this for the final release in 2015.

That said... I have no idea if the beta will be paid purchase, free, or a credit towards the full release ala FFG. I just don't see myself paying the typical DP9 pdf rate for the priveledge of working further on the rules and army lists.

Smilodon_UP wrote:
I find you an interesting and friendly enough Gearhead acquaintance Kris, but Robert doesn't need an apologist or an enabler IMO, he needs counseling, badly. If everyone else is to be held responsible for their behavior and actions in this life or a next, fools and miscreants should be accountable as well.

I can't make comments about it man.

Never met him, haven't spoken with him.

Much of my interaction with anyone related to the Pod have been all the freelancers. All of whom have their own ideas, their own perceptions, and their own opinions.

I'm aware of what folks say and what folks don't say. I don't like it much, but I'm aware. Suffice to say my work is my own, and I hope to be helpful to everyone, including fans who are old and those who are newcomers.

-Brandon F.

 IceRaptor wrote:
HGB's popularity and numbers have declined since L&L and show no signs of recovery. I think the question now is, how long can they hold on.

Given the handful on the forums plus the all but automatically positive crowd on FB, yeah, the Pod isn't exactly surrounded by swarms of customers these days, nor attracting much anyone else. Not that that seems to faze either the generalissimo or Dave in the least....

 warboss wrote:
I'll buy the northern PDF but if they charge more than a nominal amount for the beta then I'd rather just wait to see what shakes out of all this for the final release in 2015.

If I thought anything would result from doing so I'd tell folks to boycott the book, but I know most of the players who are left as customers don't care about the "why" of things like that.


But given the good advice I got elsewhere today and last night, I guess it is time to leave the Pod and it's supporters to stew in the toxic malignancy of what goes on behind the curtain until it all comes crashing down from sustained idiocy.
I've got enough other crap going on in my life to not need theirs on top of it, and I'm sick to death of stifling my own creativity because it doesn't fit the mold of what those same folks consider unobjectionable.

At least in this, I'm reasonably sure I'm not alone, or at least not in the general feeling of it. Y'all know how to find me if you need to.

 Smilodon_UP wrote:

But given the good advice I got elsewhere today and last night, I guess it is time to leave the Pod and it's supporters to stew in the toxic malignancy of what goes on behind the curtain until it all comes crashing down from sustained idiocy.
I've got enough other crap going on in my life to not need theirs on top of it, and I'm sick to death of stifling my own creativity because it doesn't fit the mold of what those same folks consider unobjectionable.

At least in this, I'm reasonably sure I'm not alone, or at least not in the general feeling of it. Y'all know how to find me if you need to.

Join the club, yeah...

There's always the chance that the Heavy Gear video game will come out and totally revitalize the tabletop game.

That was tough to type without injecting a sarcastic remark in there.

Good luck to everyone on their creative endeavors. And that is with all due seriousness and without snark.

My two cents:

1) I like the minis. I enjoy assembling and painting them. Played a few times, and am figuring out the clunky parts of Blitz, and fully intend to house rule them into more streamlined, quicker playing. Read the Alpha, and while some interesting ideas, don't know if they actually fix the problems without introducing brand new problems.

2) Game balance issues we'll probably just fix on our own by allowing certain factions a few more points. Playing for fun, so its not like there are competitive issues to worry about.

DP9 has many issues as a company, most of which can be fixed. There just does not seem to exist the will to fix them. Which disappoints me, because I like the world, I like the aesthetics and scale of the minis, and - believe it or not - I kind of like the core mechanic of Blitz. The game has a niche in the market that nobody else is really competing with in theme and scale, and should be able to grow from that. Just kind of sad they do not seem to be able or willing to do it.

RJVF wrote:
Which disappoints me, because I like the world, I like the aesthetics and scale of the minis, and - believe it or not - I kind of like the core mechanic of Blitz. The game has a niche in the market that nobody else is really competing with in theme and scale, and should be able to grow from that. Just kind of sad they do not seem to be able or willing to do it.

The core issue has always been that there's not a clear purpose for where they want to take the company. Are they trying to appeal to more players? Do they want a larger game, with less detailed models or a smaller game, with more details ones? Are they a wargames company, or a RPG company? It's always felt like there are multiple people doing good work, but nobody weaving it all together. I'm hoping Dave can start doing so, but I'm worried that as resources get slimmer, Robert will feel the need to step in and I believe he doesn't have the knowledge to do that critical component. He should be that person - it's his company - but he's had years to figure out his competitors and hasn't done so. C'est la vie.

@ Anyone going to gencon:

Are there any HG events on the prereg list? Apparently you have to be a member of their site to even *LOOK* at the games (which is stupid IMO) and my old login doesn't work from years ago.

 warboss wrote:
@ Anyone going to gencon:
Are there any HG events on the prereg list?

Can't imagine it will be all that much if anything. Because without significant freebie support yet again, by fans who're willing to give up big chunks of their paid convention time, who is there left to even run anything and be able to play by the rules?
If they attend, the Arkrite folks should probably be at their own booth to promote themselves and also emphasize that they have chosen to distance themselves from working directly with DP9.


Regarding the stupid images still going up on Facebook but not the DP9 forums; I have been fired from working on the Northern book.
I have also never seen most of the art being used.
In fact, I was told the Lynx was a variant of the Ferret, and nothing like this Badlands Rally-oriented joke of a model.

I will say however that folks like that one commenter who constantly ask things like "Where's my Gear-Strider" etc etc, whether joking or not, is exactly the kind of stuff, er "market research," TPTB responds to, thus adding increasing amounts of silly bs to the setting - all for the sake of (1) potential sale.

Whether or not the commenter is even a player or not never, ever, enters into the process.

_
_

I don't think the guy is joking about the gearstrider but neither am I when I say that I sincerely hope HG keeps one Terra Novan faction gearstrider free and the north seems as good of a choice as any.

 warboss wrote:
I don't think the guy is joking about the gearstrider but neither am I

 Smilodon_UP wrote:
[...]I'm thinking more it's time to break out the chest waders while needing to also have a high gunwale'd rental boat standing by, because the flow of excrement from the Pod is going to get awfully deep awfully fast over the next month.

As y'all can imagine, there is now absolutely no one left with the Pod who will stand up to Robert and tell him when his ideas are not workable or overdone, if not outright s**t.

They might say they will, but in the end they won't, nor will they call themselves on anything beyond the most obviously gross excesses of munchkin cheesiness until a sufficient furor is raised.
And usually not even then of late.

I only wish I was exaggerating here, because for the future of the setting the writing on the wall sucks.
Leaving only for even more folks to walk away and take from the setting what they still like, out of an already miniscule handful of active players.

For the folks that stay Robert, Dave, and Saleem are your game gods - and that is about the long and the short of it.
I won't say that it's necessarily a warning, but do be cognizant of that fact and watch your backs, as well as how you say whatever it is you say to or around them.

_
_

Are you saying that Saleem is back to writing for the Pod ? Crass incompetence doesn't even begin to describe the guy.

Yeah! The guy that thinks that short range weapons are better than long range weapons is going to be piling up things for DP9 again!
Robert will probably promote him to whatever title he decides to use for the poor sob responsible for the rules when he's done with Dave.

 warboss wrote:
@ Anyone going to gencon:

Are there any HG events on the prereg list? Apparently you have to be a member of their site to even *LOOK* at the games (which is stupid IMO) and my old login doesn't work from years ago.

I just checked - AFAICT there's no events for DP9 this year.

 IceRaptor wrote:

 warboss wrote:
@ Anyone going to gencon:

Are there any HG events on the prereg list? Apparently you have to be a member of their site to even *LOOK* at the games (which is stupid IMO) and my old login doesn't work from years ago.

I just checked - AFAICT there's no events for DP9 this year.

Thanks for checking. I can't say though that this particular bit of news is good though considering they're debuting a new "edition" of sorts (the beta version at least) there or surprising giving the last few years. I guess they can't spare any folks from the booth to run official games elsewhere and no one else stepped up to run them independently.

To my understanding, the plan (such as it is) is for a reduced 'presence' this year. basically not doing a huge booth like the last few years, and no formal events. I suggested trying to get some space outside the exhibit hall to do more personal demos and get some feedback, but was shot down. Demos in the hall need to be super short and quick

At best, it's a "building year" with a lot less expense. I won't be surprised if Jason & Greg's company has some RPG stuff for 2015, albeit possibly in a demo form if they're not close to release.

I guess they're really short on manpower. I'm a bit surprised that folks like Alien didn't run games themselves but if they're choosing to stay with Blitz instead of the Alpha project possibly then I could also see them not wanting to shine the spotlight on something other than the beta in the only games being run. I guess it'll just be Robert and Dave then at the booth but no fan friends then? In any case, thanks for the update and I wish them well.

 warboss wrote:
I guess they're really short on manpower.

I guess they're more really short on budget...

 HudsonD wrote:

 warboss wrote:
I guess they're really short on manpower.

I guess they're more really short on budget...

True... I suspect the North PDF would have helped with that since January but.. you know... stuff..

 warboss wrote:
I guess they're really short on manpower. I'm a bit surprised that folks like Alien didn't run games themselves but if they're choosing to stay with Blitz instead of the Alpha project possibly then I could also see them not wanting to shine the spotlight on something other than the beta in the only games being run. I guess it'll just be Robert and Dave then at the booth but no fan friends then? In any case, thanks for the update and I wish them well.

There's a few locals I assume will help out that usually do so... I, personally, was planing to attend 'with friends' which would have meant I'd happily help with setup/teardown and maybe a few hours, but not nearly as much as last year where I "worked" the event (I think I ran demos nearly all day for at least one day of the event).

I know this may be interpreted as 'white knighting' but I do think that going light for a year or two is ultimately a good move. At best the alpha rules will be ready to show (I'm skeptical about that... I consider it a low chance they'll be anything more than an early beta-level version).

If it was my call, I'd try to get space in the room GenCon reserves for games under beta that was premiered a couple years ago. Hand out quick-printed rules as a gimme to anyone willing to do a demo! Try to actually talk to people, instead of demos in the exhibit room.

But not my call.

(I'm a pretty quiet guy in person. 3 days in the exhibit hall and my voice is toast.)

I wouldn't worry about what it is interpreted from your post as it is a reasonable view when combined with some sort of effort outside of the 10am-6pm dealer's room work. I would hope they'd do more but that is just my "black knight" opinion as well. Hell, who knows... maybe they'll schedule a bevy of after hours games that will show up in the on-site reg books.

I would however disagree that taking two years off is anything close to a good move though. The big premiere of the official rules is supposed to be next year so if they don't spend the time/money/effort to push it at that point then it will probably fail. DP9 doesn't have the large fanbase anymore buying everything they put out no matter how premature (2 years between editions) that will keep them afloat IMO. I used to use 40k as an example of not edition flipflopping every 2 years but they've decided to do that for the first time just this past week since profits actually fell in the mid quarter report (as opposed to just remaining stagnant due to price increases despite dropping unit sales).

Two years off is probably not a good idea, but this may be a case where a small, but active booth is better than a large but low-traffic looking booth. I did suggest trying to schedule some events, even if it was in a more RPG-focused room doing limited demos for 2-4 players or similar. Please keep in mind that 'off' in this case is still a bigger space than a lot of companies have in the exhibit hall.

Another interesting point that someone brought up elsewhere is who will be painting the new release minis now that Mason is no longer working for DP9. They may have an agreement for him to paint on the side but I imagine his priorities are his own licensed products now. That could be why we're only seeing primed (and occasionally deformed) pics of minis on the official previews.

Not sure, but I can't remember the last mini he painted for an 'official' release. Was it as far back as the Caprice/CEF Frames he did for RtCE? A lot of stuff is just done by Phil, I think.

I didn't know Phil painted them as well besides sculpting. I know they used the Infinity guy for the Southern FIF minis but he has since gone steady with Infinity and doesn't paint for other companies.

I think painting the minis is probably the least of the Pod's worries at this point.

Virtually no new art in the last three products.
No more trained layout artist.
Anemic (at best) mini releases for new books.
All conventions cancelled save for Gencon.
All events cancelled at Gencon.
The list goes on...

Gencon used to be the primary recruiting effort for DP9, and they gave up on it ? That's kind of a big red flag there...

Well, to be honest, is there a point to spending money to hook people initially if there are so many reasons you won't retain them? (see poll above) Blitz obviously has some issues of its own and every edition swap causes churn and burn of the playerbase (even if the company gives the edition an appropriate lifespan of 4-5 years).

Well, HGB has always had terrible player retention, but the Pod focused on impulse sales and new customers (much like GW) and simply ignored the after-sale support, with Arena the perfect example.
Put it simply, the Pod will try very hard to sell you and your buddies an army, and forget you forever after that.

It appears the nomad approach isn't enough to sustain them anymore, but can they switch to another model ? They've given up on conventions, which were their main recruiting drive.

 Balance wrote:
Demos in the hall need to be super short and quick.

I haven't kept up past the second-ish revamp of the Alpha. How long is 3, 2, or 1 versus the same number of opposing models supposed to take in an area the size of the round demo tables?

 warboss wrote:
Well, to be honest, is there a point to spending money to hook people initially if there are so many reasons you won't retain them?

 HudsonD wrote:
It appears the nomad approach isn't enough to sustain them anymore, but can they switch to another model ?

When a freelancer gives a company what it wanted from it's own source material within how they were allowed to do it, yet the completed project still isn't what was desired even though they in all likelihood got blamed for the failure or miscommunication, there probably isn't a whole lot anyone can do with the company at that point besides move on.

It's just so futile... and such a waste of already limited time in life.

_
_

 Smilodon_UP wrote:

I haven't kept up past the second-ish revamp of the Alpha. How long is 3, 2, or 1 versus the same number of opposing models supposed to take in an area the size of the round demo tables?

It really depends. If kept controlled, I think a 3 on 3 might be a 20-30 minutes, which is a bit long for random people that get sucked in to the booth, but OK for people that are interested in the game. That's also assuming you're avoiding a lot of stuff like ECM/ECCM, indirect fire, etc.

One thing that was discussed last year that I liked was reworking the starter box to fill the goals of being less generic, a better demo, and more interesting. my thought was to go PAK with a light HT versus some Gears that could go PAK or either North or South depending on details. Run for demos, it's South vs. PAK, but you can also use it as a usable backbone for a full force. It's visually appealing (People like the tanks!) and I think it could show off more of the game than base mechanics.

Admittedly, I only do demos at Gen Con, which is a bit different in scale from other conventions.