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Sadly, both of which are intended for players whose interest coincides with a "mecha-oriented" take on the setting.

Which leaves me out, again .....

I don't know what you mean when you say 'mecha-oriented'.

-Brandon F.

I think he means "something that doesn't even pretend anymore about being coherent with reality". Or itself, when i comes to HG.

What would make things coherent?

-Brandon F.

BrandonKF wrote:
What would make things coherent?

Remotely competent writers.

A better video than the one I posted that was the first update in around a year?

Okay. So remotely competent writers and a good source of updates.

-Brandon F.

BrandonKF wrote:
Good thing the RPG is being worked on.

Oh, and there's some new forums open for Heavy Gear Assault, if anyone's interested.

-Brandon F.

I do have hopes for Arkrite. Let's see how it pans out, but at the very least Robert isn't there >_>


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrandonKF wrote:
What would make things coherent?

-Brandon F.

For me, one of the very big things that needs to be reintroduced would be verisimilitude. I don't need things to be "realistic" (because, well, stompy robots, duh), but I need it to be coherent and believable enough.

And honestly, since the NuCoal book (and even before, TBH) basically nothing I've seen in the newer Blitz books has been. Not in the mechanical sense (Gearstriders... >_>, particularly the Drake, of course, or... well, basically every NuCoal design in that book) or the world building sense (the NuCoal/HA/exodus shenanigans coupled with the sudden but inevitable tenfold population growth feels... well, absolutely nuts and stupid, or at least as if someone expects me to be stupid).

So yeah, less of that, please.

 Albertorius wrote:

BrandonKF wrote:
Good thing the RPG is being worked on.

Oh, and there's some new forums open for Heavy Gear Assault, if anyone's interested.

-Brandon F.

I do have hopes for Arkrite. Let's see how it pans out, but at the very least Robert isn't there >_>

I can't really comment on the latter half, but as far as how it pans out, I am hopeful as well.

For me, one of the very big things that needs to be reintroduced would be verisimilitude. I don't need things to be "realistic" (because, well, stompy robots, duh), but I need it to be coherent and believable enough.

And honestly, since the NuCoal book (and even before, TBH) basically nothing I've seen in the newer Blitz books has been. Not in the mechanical sense (Gearstriders... >_>, particularly the Drake, of course, or... well, basically every NuCoal design in that book) or the world building sense (the NuCoal/HA/exodus shenanigans coupled with the sudden but inevitable tenfold population growth feels... well, absolutely nuts and stupid, or at least as if someone expects me to be stupid).

So yeah, less of that, please.

I wouldn't choose to speak for Arkrite's directors, but speaking for myself, I don't think anyone expects folks to be stupid. I think that there is going to be some changes made to the population, in particular because it is a very sparse population number to give for a world that is largely covered in land. You've made mention of that, I believe, Albertorius.

-Brandon F.

BrandonKF wrote:
I wouldn't choose to speak for Arkrite's directors, but speaking for myself, I don't think anyone expects folks to be stupid. I think that there is going to be some changes made to the population, in particular because it is a very sparse population number to give for a world that is largely covered in land. You've made mention of that, I believe, Albertorius.

I'm not talking about Arkrite, but DP9. And seriously, it's how it comes off, because the stuff from TPS can't stand even a cursory examination without falling apart at the seams. It's just too full of Deus Ex Machina and stupid ball tossing to feel any other way.

As for the population, there is a marked difference between retconning the setting to put more people in the whole planet (and saying that you're doing it, and stating the reasons you're doing it for) and multiplying by 10 the population of a region just because, without any serious attempt to explain it rationally, and without giving a way for that much people to be fed and catered to (because, you know, middle of the desert). Personally I think it would be ok in the first case, if done well and for, you know, actual reasons, whereas I'm not ok with it in the second case.

I am aware of your misgivings about The Perfect Storm, Albertorius, and I understand that you would prefer the company had announced it.

I like the additional foil the New Coalition brings to the world of Heavy Gear.

-Brandon F.

BrandonKF wrote:
I am aware of your misgivings about The Perfect Storm, Albertorius, and I understand that you would prefer the company had announced it.

I like the additional foil the New Coalition brings to the world of Heavy Gear.

-Brandon F.

Don't get me wrong. I don't dislike the idea of the NuCoal. I dislike the implementation we've got.

 Albertorius wrote:

BrandonKF wrote:
I am aware of your misgivings about The Perfect Storm, Albertorius, and I understand that you would prefer the company had announced it.

I like the additional foil the New Coalition brings to the world of Heavy Gear.

-Brandon F.

Don't get me wrong. I don't dislike the idea of the NuCoal. I dislike the implementation we've got.

That's fair and I have respect for you.

-Brandon F.

 Albertorius wrote:

Don't get me wrong. I don't dislike the idea of the NuCoal. I dislike the implementation we've got.

See, we're going back to my previous point, with decent writers, NuCoal could have been an awesome addition to the setting. As is, they're an embarassement. The same is true for basically everything in the last few years.
Arena, TPS, the Alpha, etc... they all could have been awesome, but DP9™ happened...

BrandonKF wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

BrandonKF wrote:
I am aware of your misgivings about The Perfect Storm, Albertorius, and I understand that you would prefer the company had announced it.

I like the additional foil the New Coalition brings to the world of Heavy Gear.

-Brandon F.

Don't get me wrong. I don't dislike the idea of the NuCoal. I dislike the implementation we've got.

That's fair and I have respect for you.

-Brandon F.

There will come the day when I'll have free time enough to actually rewrite the NuCoal stuff to make it more to my liking, and to line it with my idea of the setting.

Sometime >_>

 Smilodon_UP wrote:
Yeah, as had been said many times before anything in the setting that doesn't have a "promoter" gets treated in an extremely shoddy manner. Someone commented to me recently that even the North is getting that treatment now, as if it's merely an afterthought the Pod has to keep going just because it's such a big thing in the source material(s) by being an original primary faction.

Is it related to the religious aspect of the North? I remember a thread on the DP9 forums a while back in which the majority of the posters seemed stunned by the idea that the North wasn't the default "bad guy" in the North vs South conflicts due to its strong religious tendencies. The fact that the South was politically repressive got a shrugged dismissal, as it wasn't seen as a particularly big deal. I wouldn't be surprised if the importance of religion in the North, coupled with the fact that the North isn't (contrary to the above expressed idea) a default "bad guy", is a problem for some of the people currently working on the current iteration of the game.

 Albertorius wrote:

For me, one of the very big things that needs to be reintroduced would be verisimilitude. I don't need things to be "realistic" (because, well, stompy robots, duh), but I need it to be coherent and believable enough.

And honestly, since the NuCoal book (and even before, TBH) basically nothing I've seen in the newer Blitz books has been. Not in the mechanical sense (Gearstriders... >_>, particularly the Drake, of course, or... well, basically every NuCoal design in that book) or the world building sense (the NuCoal/HA/exodus shenanigans coupled with the sudden but inevitable tenfold population growth feels... well, absolutely nuts and stupid, or at least as if someone expects me to be stupid).

So yeah, less of that, please.

Yup, that's me as well, the series stretches things enough as is with the Gears alone, but then they go an decide to add "Bigger is better" models, which felt like a shameless attempt to get sales at the price of the setting. And tanks with arms, ugh. That book was so full of terrible. And it wasn't just the models, but the rules were bad too. The herohammer KADA, the triple-linked MRPs, the hey, we're the new faction, so we're totally built to utilize the current ruleset, with ECCM on every CGL and other various advantages, while all previous factions adhered to fluff. Oh and their TV was way off in comparison to everyone else at launch, making them essentially unplayable with the other factions. NuCoal was a real FUBAR mess.

BrandonKF wrote:

Sadly, both of which are intended for players whose interest coincides with a "mecha-oriented" take on the setting. Which leaves me out, again .....

I don't know what you mean when you say 'mecha-oriented'.

* Real life and real war involves more than a little mud and blood, lightened occasionally by outbreaks of gallows humor or tension driven antics. Whatever amount of grit the HG setting had in this area is long since gone.

* Combat is about making the first, best, attack. This obviously has to be changed and balanced significantly to make a tabletop wargame fun enough to play repeatedly, but should not be an acceptable compromise in the fiction. Fair play is one side not wanting to walk away alive, instead of being merciful as allowable to hostile survivors after one side wins. HG has chosen to only rarely reference war to the knife, and even then just in passing.

* In conflicts it's the faceless ranks fighting small actions no one else will ever truly care about beyond the few of either side who were there in the moment that enable a resolution. History is instead about the decisions made by a chosen few visible to the populace for whatever reason, who essentially take credit for the actions of others, when most of time they merely provided directions and/or resources. But again, this is almost never what any HG story is like.

* Putting aside for the moment a dubious need for "arena" vehicle bloodsports, the only non-weapon systems that should exist if the setting includes viable anthropomorphic and non-anthropomorphic combat walkers are perhaps basic vibro-blades, chainswords, spike guns, and chassis reinforcement. Things best able to be used as efficient light engineering tools that also prevent damage to the machine(s) when carrying out those kinds of tasks, just like on any other vehicle type. Actual use as a vehicular weapon should be extremely rare actions of utter desperation, not a viable choice on a ranged battlefield that is supposedly highly lethal due to every machine having it's own very capable computer brain. However, everyone knows mecha-melee will never go away, or even get pared down to this kind of level, for any setting.

* Any vehicle facing more than two to one odds by itself should never be able to win. At best it should hope to end up with a draw and go for causing as much damage as possible in a single attack, or try to withdraw. Outside of a duel, which again is kind of dubious in such a setting, any duelist should be killed just like everyone else when this happens. But "mary-sue" hero figures are always going to be the norm in any setting, otherwise no one would bother with it beyond a small handful.

* One core tenet in the HG setting is that Gears are mass produced IFVs requiring only a single pilot, with interchangeable semi-AI brains of varying personality capability. Although many soldiers of some national origins tend to identify with their vehicle as a fellow solider, it doesn't mean they won't use another of the type they are trained on from the same unit any differently. Much like the Fuchikomas or landmates in manga, the machines should be viewed by a unit as a collateral whole available for usage as needed. But this never happens, it's always a focus on Gears as if they were mini-'mechs or mini-gundams.

* I can actually get behind the concept of child soldiers based on young adults who have to mature faster in a hostile environment given how quickly even "hot" cold wars eat up personnel and materiel. But the angsty part always seems to tag along anyways, I guess just to draw a bigger crowd looking for the T&A + sexual tension manga aspect.

BrandonKF wrote:
What would make things coherent?

 HudsonD wrote:
Remotely competent writers.

I think I just proved my ideas in this area are too contrary to what the larger community wants to have any affect whatsoever on the matter. And IME, coherent is never going to happen, or be allowed to happen.

 Albertorius wrote:
I do have hopes for Arkrite. Let's see how it pans out, but at the very least Robert isn't there >_>

But Robert still holds the licensing, so there will be some influence on things he doesn't want to see, or on things he wants to try and sell. And everyone here knows how good he is at figuring out either of those concepts in a useful manner.

 Albertorius wrote:

BrandonKF wrote:
I like the additional foil the New Coalition brings to the world of Heavy Gear.

Don't get me wrong. I don't dislike the idea of the NuCoal. I dislike the implementation we've got.

I haven't seen anything yet in what Jason and Greg have released to make me doubt they won't continue in that same vein either.

Eumerin wrote:
Is it related to the religious aspect of the North? I remember a thread on the DP9 forums a while back in which the majority of the posters seemed stunned by the idea that the North wasn't the default "bad guy" in the North vs South conflicts due to its strong religious tendencies. The fact that the South was politically repressive got a shrugged dismissal, as it wasn't seen as a particularly big deal.

In other games it might be something like that, but I think you're vastly over-thinking the situation.
It's more that none of TPTB who're left personally play North as their faction.
Only Paxton is represented that anyone knows of.

There is also some question as to how smart the folks at the top actually are about things like this, involving either intangible ideas like religion or seeing how badly they self-promote their own ideas.
Personally though, I don't assume much anymore that TPTB have that kind of brains when they do even bother to try and think things through.

ferrous wrote:
[...] but then they go an decide to add "Bigger is better" models, which felt like a shameless attempt to get sales at the price of the setting. [...] Oh and their TV was way off in comparison to everyone else at launch, making them essentially unplayable with the other factions.

$$$ grab sales is exactly what it is. Notice which models are always getting pushed through the pipeline over at the Pod?
Big, one-off showpieces they must know only a handful of folks will buy, that are somehow expected to keep things going just a little longer.
All those other models getting passed over, may never see the light of day.
Nor may those currently without any art ever get art - because the generalissimo is very, very bad about wanting to pay anyone in anything but product, whether or not the freelancer can make any use of it.

But yeah, they are really bad about the TV thing getting figured correctly to start, and then altering things that shouldn't be so as to make them more viable than something else they don't care about as much.
Like say the Scimitar, which should cost more than a Standard Mammoth to around what an Aller goes for - except it got discounted to match the Drake, which is itself probably undercosted.
As is the Hussar too most likely, so that people would buy and use it, no matter how poorly they might perform in-game.

_
_

In the RPG's "defense", we simply haven't seen enough of any part of it to make much of a determination of where it will go. They may genuinely like much derided things introduced in Blitz like gear striders and the rabbit-like procreation habits of badlanders that caused the massive population boom... or they're mandated to follow the established fluff to some extent by the license (and pride on the part of DP9 in not admitting that they were wrong). We'll likely never know which is true but we don't even have enough info yet to know if either is.

 Smilodon_UP wrote:

$$$ grab sales is exactly what it is. Notice which models are always getting pushed through the pipeline over at the Pod? Big, one-off showpieces they must know only a handful of folks will buy, that are somehow expected to keep things going just a little longer. All those other models getting passed over, may never see the light of day. Nor may those currently without any art ever get art - because the generalissimo is very, very bad about wanting to pay anyone in anything but product, whether or not the freelancer can make any use of it.

Bolded for emphasis, and I can confirm this as factual and accurate.
If anyone wondered why DP9 can't attract and/or retain talent to save their life, now you know...

This is good news from Robert Dubois:

For this summer we'll be putting out a small format Beta Rulebook printed b&w which will be $15 and will first be available at Gen Con. The Beta Rulebook will mainly be the cleaned up Alpha Rules that Dave has be running playtesting on since the start of 2014 into Beta Rules in a small format book player can carry around to play until the final new edition rulebook is released. We are also going to make the Beta Rulebook available as a free download for everyone.

http://dp9forum.com/index.php?showtopic=16221#entry283989

That's not a good news, that's the bare minimum. You do not ask players to pay for a beta, for the same reason you do not ask peoples helping you move to pay you.

Of course, he is also trying to sell the beta...

mrondeau wrote:
That's not a good news, that's the bare minimum. You do not ask players to pay for a beta, for the same reason you do not ask peoples helping you move to pay you.

Of course, he is also trying to sell the beta...

I think the good news is the bit he highlighted about it being free for download. With that, you can get it for either free (tablet or e-reader version) or the cost of printing (if you want a hard copy).

Though I'll be the first to admit that $15 for the DP9 provided hard copy seems steep for what should be a low-production value temporary release.

 warboss wrote:
This is good news from Robert Dubois:

That once again appeared preferentially on Facebook, which el presidente apparently already forgot, because that was a whole two weeks ago;

Dream Pod 9, Inc. wrote:
We are working on a new edition of the game, which is in Alpha playtesting right now, we plan on releasing a small b&w printed book for $15 at this summer's Gen Con and it also be available as a free pdf download. That way players can start using the new rules and help us with playtesting. The final rulebook is planned for the summer of 2015, that way it will have about 8 months of additional beta testing before it has to go into final layout. We want to make sure we getting everything right before we release the final edition.
May 19 at 3:21pm

You've really got to wonder how someone who can't even string together such a simple sentence, or even notice that it needed an edit, managed to end up trying to run a business of any kind.

But it's typically tacky of the man to try and sell something unfinished or of dubious value. Wonder though if the Pod will manage to forget whatever copies they do print-out back in Montreal again like last year when a bunch of product stuff didn't make it to Gencon.

The part about a free alternative is kind of mystifying, as it makes me wonder how many folks he thinks will actually buy it? It's that whole thing again like he has never heard of wifi capable laptops and smart phones....

_
_

Normally I'm one to jump into the deep end of the negativity pool but I don't see this as a bad thing. If those who are buying the copies want to pay nothing instead then they have that option with the free download. They can then print out the pages 4 per page double sided for less than a dollar on their own printer at the lowest setting if they don't want to only use the completely free electronic version. I don't see a big issue with charging for the physical copies of the beta rules although I fully admit (and have in the past) that the classy thing to do would be to 100% credit that purchase towards the final version at the next gencon. I don't think there is a snowball's chance in hell of that happening but no one is forcing anyone to buy the dead tree beta rules. If you simply *MUST* play the latest version of HG (insert player community size joke here), you have a completely free option.

I'm saying that having a free version available should not be "news". Not having a free version available would be (bad) news, but the availability of a free version is not only expected, it's the bare minimum! Less than the bare minimum would be a free version that is updated regularly.

Brandon, any news on whether the rpg crew will be at gencon and/or if there will be any products for sale by then?

 warboss wrote:
A better video than the one I posted that was the first update in around a year?

I still get a kick out of the part where he mentions "billboards in etc" two years ago that went nowhere, and that he still apparently sees this project as going well.

Then John and Jason also talk PC, console, or mobile that same GenCon. I notice they likewise mention artists already gone from working with the company within less than a year.
But last year, the Pod was all about promoting Blitz! when they already knew it was going away.

What should any player or potential player believe about the future of the setting, the company, or it's associated products from other companies.

 warboss wrote:
In the RPG's "defense", we simply haven't seen enough of any part of it to make much of a determination of where it will go.

I suppose that is true enough to grant the RPG reboot a "maybe," dropping some of the things they've said on the blog.

It'll take some time to know, as currently they are merely trading on the name as much as the Pod is anymore, and only doing a facelift on an existing product for the moment.

I've had other dealings with Jason & Greg aside from testing, but yes, it is somewhat impossible to know how much was mandated and how much was actual creation on their part.
One thing I did find out about them though that gives me pause, is that in my experience the who matters more than the what with them.

 HudsonD wrote:

 Smilodon_UP wrote:
[..] because the generalissimo is very, very bad about wanting to pay anyone in anything but product, whether or not the freelancer can make any use of it.

Bolded for emphasis, and I can confirm this as factual and accurate.
If anyone wondered why DP9 can't attract and/or retain talent to save their life, now you know...

Promised "paid by" dates never enter the picture either, which probably doesn't help much at all. It's understandable that small companies inevitably have $$$ flow problems, but partial payments delayed into another quarter, or partial final payments half a year or more delayed, is likely some kind of warning sign.

_
_

Heh, don't get me started on Heavy Gear Assault. The way the mektek folks handled the press and early development on that almost makes DP9 look like pros in comparison.

I have a very faint hope that the game will end up any good. (It shouldn't be that hard, all they really have to do is re-skin Gears of War and make some minor tweaks since they are mechs)

Does anyone know what exactly the Welcome in the Jungle RPG product will be? It is just an adventure for the old ruleset or will it contain the new version of the rules in some basic form ala the intro adventures for D&D?

 warboss wrote:
Does anyone know what exactly the Welcome in the Jungle RPG product will be? It is just an adventure for the old ruleset or will it contain the new version of the rules in some basic form ala the intro adventures for D&D?

For the uninitiated like myself, where would be the best place to find ANY info on the RPG? I hear a thing or two in passing, but nothing concrete.